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Selke nominees are Datsyuk, Kesler and Jordan Staal. Richards snubbed?

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Old
04-20-2010, 03:11 PM
  #26
kicksave27
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I seem to remember someone saying that by their calcs, Blair Betts was the best defensive forward in the game

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04-20-2010, 03:14 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kicksave27 View Post
I seem to remember someone saying that by their calcs, Blair Betts was the best defensive forward in the game
Betts was stellar this year, but you're not going to win the Selke unless you can score a bit...and play a larger chunk of minutes than he does.

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04-20-2010, 03:20 PM
  #28
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These awards are usually decided purely by stats so I'm not surprised here. Richards (along with everyone else on the team) point totals went down, his team has had an up-and-down year, and he doesn't have nearly the amount of SH goals this year.

I think most of these awards are hog-wash anyways.

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04-20-2010, 03:23 PM
  #29
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He should be a nominee, but who cares. I don't give a rats ass about individual hardware.

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04-20-2010, 03:51 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
2007-8: Datsyuk had a 1.84 GAON/60 v. 0.087 Qual Comp to go with a 4.04 GFON/60
2008-9: 2.30 GAON/60 v. 0.038 Qual Comp to go with a 4.28 GFON/60
This year: 2.06 GAON/60 v. 0.036 Qual Comp to go with a 2.75 GFON/60

2008-9 for Richards: 2.32 GAON/60 v. 0.041 Qual Comp to go with 2.55 GFON/60

Now, these are even strength statistics... but Datsyuk was easily the correct choice over Richards when factoring in offensive output. Only reason Richards got votes was because of his run of shorties.

This year, it's much more up for grabs.
What are these stats? I have never heard of them before. Not discounting them, just curious.

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04-20-2010, 03:54 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
This is Kevin Allen's twitter, of USA Today.



ESPN has picked up the story now also.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=5118741




So, Richards snubbed?

anyone agree or disagree with these picks?

I agree with them, for the most part. Kesler and Datsyuk are gimmes and Staal is a very good two way center.

Richards was nominated last year largely on his PK skills and huge amount of SHGs.

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04-20-2010, 03:55 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kicksave27 View Post
I seem to remember someone saying that by their calcs, Blair Betts was the best defensive forward in the game
James Mirtle did those numbers.

The Selke is sort of like a Gold Glove in baseball. Otherwise, Steve Kasper would have won ten of them.

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04-20-2010, 03:57 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
What are these stats? I have never heard of them before. Not discounting them, just curious.
Behindthenet.ca...

I have to say that in my experience (and from a couple interactions with various people in the hockey world), QUALCOMP is a really, really iffy stat.

GAON/60 = Goals allowed on per 60.

Again though, you have to contrast that stat with GAOFF/60 to get good context.

The crazy thing this year is that Ovechkin's defensive stats are insanely good for a scoring forward, made me rethink the Hart vote.

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Old
04-20-2010, 04:04 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Behindthenet.ca...

I have to say that in my experience (and from a couple interactions with various people in the hockey world), QUALCOMP is a really, really iffy stat.

GAON/60 = Goals allowed on per 60.

Again though, you have to contrast that stat with GAOFF/60 to get good context.

The crazy thing this year is that Ovechkin's defensive stats are insanely good for a scoring forward, made me rethink the Hart vote.
QUALCOMP is going to be a best guess by the very nature of the stat. It's a hard thing to quantify, but if you look at the Flyers stats in that category...they make perfect sense.

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Old
04-20-2010, 04:09 PM
  #35
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I can watch Dastyuk play and see he is a better defensive forward than anyone on that list. I don't need some retarded stats to back it up. Stats are not everything. There's 5 players and a goalie on the ice at all time.
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Old
04-20-2010, 04:12 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by CannonGoBoom View Post
I can watch Dastyuk play and see he is a better defensive forward than anyone on that list. I don't need some retarded stats to back it up. Stats are not everything. There's 5 players and a goalie on the ice at all time.
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Stats aren't everything...but they don't wear homer glasses, and lead to people saying Richards got snubbed last year.

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04-20-2010, 04:12 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Behindthenet.ca...

I have to say that in my experience (and from a couple interactions with various people in the hockey world), QUALCOMP is a really, really iffy stat.

GAON/60 = Goals allowed on per 60.

Again though, you have to contrast that stat with GAOFF/60 to get good context.

The crazy thing this year is that Ovechkin's defensive stats are insanely good for a scoring forward, made me rethink the Hart vote.
Thanks.

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04-20-2010, 04:13 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
QUALCOMP is going to be a best guess by the very nature of the stat. It's a hard thing to quantify, but if you look at the Flyers stats in that category...they make perfect sense.
I actually have a little bit of trouble buying Carter's, maybe opposing coaches were really that dumb, but not putting strong guys against the 2nd leading scorer in the NHL in 08-09? Seems fishy to me and I don't specifically remember Carter getting easier matchups.

Also, the Chicago QUALTEAM stats (specifically Keith and Seabrook) make absolutely no sense to me.

I don't have as much trouble with QUALCOMP though as I do with QUALTEAM.

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04-20-2010, 04:16 PM
  #39
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I do think stats play as much as a role for a committee that decides on awards. Their job is to pretty much watch every game.

We do not have the luxury to do so, thus we try to rely on stats to describe and predict how a player has played.

We don't know how lines are matched up each night, how these stats are accumulated (empty nets, against 4th liners after icings, etc....)

It does a good job for us, but there is a reason why Mike Green will (hopefully) not win the Norris this year, just like last year. Yea he has great numbers, but it isn't completely credited to his great defensive plays.

So I'll be honest and admit I rarely watch Staal/Kesseler outside of playoffs. I will leave the judging up to an "unbiased" committee.

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04-20-2010, 04:32 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
I actually have a little bit of trouble buying Carter's, maybe opposing coaches were really that dumb, but not putting strong guys against the 2nd leading scorer in the NHL in 08-09? Seems fishy to me and I don't specifically remember Carter getting easier matchups.

Also, the Chicago QUALTEAM stats (specifically Keith and Seabrook) make absolutely no sense to me.

I don't have as much trouble with QUALCOMP though as I do with QUALTEAM.
We were trying to get Carter out against weak opponents fairly regularly this year... whereas Betts and Richards would get put out there against stronger opponents in defensive situations.

Don't watch Chicago enough to know. That's the thing about those stats...they suck in--to the best of their ability--everything that is going on.

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04-20-2010, 05:11 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Stats aren't everything...but they don't wear homer glasses, and lead to people saying Richards got snubbed last year.
Funny thing is, if the one Chicago wrirter had voted for Richards instead of Andrew Ladd with his first place vote, Richards is the Selke winner.

The Selke, regardless of stats, is a popularity contest.

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04-20-2010, 05:17 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KimiFerrari View Post
I do think stats play as much as a role for a committee that decides on awards. Their job is to pretty much watch every game.

We do not have the luxury to do so, thus we try to rely on stats to describe and predict how a player has played.

We don't know how lines are matched up each night, how these stats are accumulated (empty nets, against 4th liners after icings, etc....)

It does a good job for us, but there is a reason why Mike Green will (hopefully) not win the Norris this year, just like last year. Yea he has great numbers, but it isn't completely credited to his great defensive plays.

So I'll be honest and admit I rarely watch Staal/Kesseler outside of playoffs. I will leave the judging up to an "unbiased" committee.
Yeah, but those guys don't do that. I mean, I think a lot of normal hockey fans are just as qualified to pick awards as hockey writers are.

Look at the example JSaq picked out, I mean, Andrew ****ing Ladd, seriously?

EDIT: I should add that I don't think Richie will ever win the Selke (even if he deserves it, he didn't this year) because the big hits and physicality scare people off, who was the last truly physical forward to win the Selke?

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04-20-2010, 05:21 PM
  #43
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Richards didn't have as good of a year as last year, and didnt have 7 SHG this year.

But Jordan Staal should not be there.

Richards should have won last year, he actually had more first place votes that Datsyuk

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04-20-2010, 05:32 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Yeah, but those guys don't do that. I mean, I think a lot of normal hockey fans are just as qualified to pick awards as hockey writers are.

Look at the example JSaq picked out, I mean, Andrew ****ing Ladd, seriously?

EDIT: I should add that I don't think Richie will ever win the Selke (even if he deserves it, he didn't this year) because the big hits and physicality scare people off, who was the last truly physical forward to win the Selke?
Then maybe they should make Hockey analysts do the judging, such as what they have on TSN, RDS, SportsNet, etc...

I can't believe I am going to say this, but someone like Pierre Mcguire. This guy watches pretty much every player and every game.

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04-20-2010, 05:54 PM
  #45
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McGuire is horribly biased though. But Richards is one of his favorites

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04-20-2010, 06:01 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
McGuire is horribly biased though. But Richards is one of his favorites
Everyone is. At least his is not a specific team bias.

Trust me at times I hate him for his man crushes aka Tavares.

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Old
04-20-2010, 06:03 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
McGuire is horribly biased though. But Richards is one of his favorites
**** Pierre loves him so much he would probably even give Richie the Vezina

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04-20-2010, 09:47 PM
  #48
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I don't think he deserved it this year....far too many times he got caught doing too much and turning pucks over in the offensive and neutral zones...good defense begins with controlling the puck well in all zones and not creating more work for yourself and your teammates. Based on that alone, I don't think he deserved the nod.

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Old
04-21-2010, 07:17 AM
  #49
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I think Kesler will win it this year.

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Old
04-21-2010, 10:38 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSaq View Post
Funny thing is, if the one Chicago wrirter had voted for Richards instead of Andrew Ladd with his first place vote, Richards is the Selke winner.

The Selke, regardless of stats, is a popularity contest.
Richards would have won it purely because of the shorties, though...which are nice, but not really the whole picture. Which is my point... if Richards had won over Datsyuk, it would have been flying in the face of a lot of evidence that Datsyuk was better.

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