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Old
04-19-2010, 01:24 PM
  #51
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i love how every thread that has anything to do w/ salary cap turns into a kovalchuk discussion.

Anyway.. the whole benefit of getting another elite scorer is it makes it so neither one has to constantly face top pairing defensemen. It's not 40 + 40 = 80 when you have 2 (solo) 40 goal scorers on your team, it's more like 40 + 40 = 100 since each one will have the opportunity to face lesser defensemen. It also makes for a sick power play

But anyway, we're not getting kovy without a MASSIVE overpayment. The only way he signs a reasonable contract is with a cup contender, and that we are not.

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04-20-2010, 08:39 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by azrok22 View Post


I think you're misunderstanding or didn't read my posts. Gaborik and Kovalchuk would be playing on separate lines (except on the PP). They'd be carrying their own lines, not redundant pieces on the same line.

Something like:

Assuming no trades.
exactly you split them up and one of them isn't going to have to play all their minutes against the top pairing defensemen... so you hope that one players production jumps while the other stays roughly the same as they're playing against the same talent level they always have. plus a gabby, kovie, prospal(or whoever) pp would be a ton of fun to watch

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04-20-2010, 09:23 PM
  #53
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I hope the cap goes up.

But, please, NO NO NO NO NO Kovalchuk. Did the Devils get anything out of their "Cup-run" trade? NO NO NO NO NO.

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04-20-2010, 09:26 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
I hope the cap goes up.

But, please, NO NO NO NO NO Kovalchuk. Did the Devils get anything out of their "Cup-run" trade? NO NO NO NO NO.


Blaming Kovalchuk for the Devils shortcomings is like blaming the guy who tended bar on the Titanic...

Kovalchuk is one of the few Devils that showed up... unfortunately for Devils fans (and fortunately for us) no one else did.

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04-20-2010, 09:29 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
I hope the cap goes up.

But, please, NO NO NO NO NO Kovalchuk. Did the Devils get anything out of their "Cup-run" trade? NO NO NO NO NO.

6 points (2 goals) from Kovalchuk in 4 games. It's definitely not his fault they are down 3-1. Zajac and Langenbrunner were the ones that went missing.

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04-20-2010, 09:29 PM
  #56
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can everyone please explain to me why rangers are in desperate need for a number one center? gaborik just had a career year with eric christensen playing with him since his wavier pick up.. if we have a chance to pick up kovy its kind of a no brainer.. he just put up similar numbers gaby put up and who played with him? anisimov/afino i mean come on guys these guys have been playing their entire careers without a number 1 center.. this team needs to shore up its defense and most of all add secondary scoring so we can deal with match ups and ect ect....

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04-20-2010, 09:30 PM
  #57
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6 points (2 goals) from Kovalchuk in 4 games. It's definitely not his fault they are down 3-1. Zajac and Langenbrunner were the ones that went missing.
Absolutely. The Devils have scored 9 goals this series. Kovalchuk has 6 points.

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04-20-2010, 09:31 PM
  #58
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I'm not blaming Kovalchuk. I just don't want him for $10 million and I'm glad we didn't trade Anisimov to get him for the playoffs like the Devils did.

Marty let in a few softies and I think the Devils were pretenders to begin with.

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04-20-2010, 09:58 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
I'm not blaming Kovalchuk. I just don't want him for $10 million and I'm glad we didn't trade Anisimov to get him for the playoffs like the Devils did.

Marty let in a few softies and I think the Devils were pretenders to begin with.
I'm actually surprised by that. I thought the Debbies would be legit.

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04-20-2010, 10:02 PM
  #60
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I'm actually surprised by that. I thought the Debbies would be legit.
Marty is great. But he's 37 going on 38 and has played a ton of games this year. And the Devils key players, Parise aside, are mostly on the wrong side of 30.

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04-20-2010, 10:03 PM
  #61
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So we've determined that, when you put Kovalchuk on a team with any other talent around him, he still tries to do it all himself, and is moderately successful at the expense of the other players on the team.

We can take this 2 ways.

1. We can pay a guy $10m a year to puckhog and score goals, but no one else will.

2. We don't have any talent anyway, so bring him on.

Opinion: Stay as far away as possible from him.

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04-21-2010, 12:49 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by puckhead94 View Post
So we've determined that, when you put Kovalchuk on a team with any other talent around him, he still tries to do it all himself, and is moderately successful at the expense of the other players on the team.

We can take this 2 ways.

1. We can pay a guy $10m a year to puckhog and score goals, but no one else will.

2. We don't have any talent anyway, so bring him on.

Opinion: Stay as far away as possible from him.
im not sure how this makes any sense whatsoever...Kovalchuk has had a hand in 67% of the offense the Devils have scored...the real question is, where is everyone else, and where is the goaltending?

Ive said all along they were the easiest first round matchup in terms of the top 4 teams. They are a regular season team, since the lockout, thats all theyve ever been. A complete non threat imho.

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04-21-2010, 05:11 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
im not sure how this makes any sense whatsoever...Kovalchuk has had a hand in 67% of the offense the Devils have scored...the real question is, where is everyone else, and where is the goaltending?

Ive said all along they were the easiest first round matchup in terms of the top 4 teams. They are a regular season team, since the lockout, thats all theyve ever been. A complete non threat imho.
Uncle Daddy let in one of his patented awful goals in the playoffs. That Carcillo goal was dreadful.

As for Kovalchuk, still want him, still think he has eyes for LA.

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04-21-2010, 06:48 AM
  #64
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As for Kovalchuk, still want him, still think he has eyes for LA.
See and I think that he is going to go home to mother Russia. I believe that his biggest payday could come from there.

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04-21-2010, 07:14 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by dethomas07 View Post
can everyone please explain to me why rangers are in desperate need for a number one center? gaborik just had a career year with eric christensen playing with him since his wavier pick up.. if we have a chance to pick up kovy its kind of a no brainer.. he just put up similar numbers gaby put up and who played with him? anisimov/afino i mean come on guys these guys have been playing their entire careers without a number 1 center.. this team needs to shore up its defense and most of all add secondary scoring so we can deal with match ups and ect ect....
Almost all elite top echelon teams are strong at center ice. Everything flows from the play of your centers: offensive production, maximizing the ability of your wingers, faceoffs, down low defensive coverage, forechecking, carrying the puck through the neutral zone, etc. Wingers affect generally one side of the ice, centers the entire ice surface. If your had the choice between an elite center and an elite winger, the choice would be a center almost all of the time. In the grand scheme of things, they just impact the game more. Yes, Gaborik can make things happen seemingly by himself, but just imagine how much more productive he would be if he were playing with a legit #1 center who the opposition would have to key on? Imagine if Gaborik had more time and space?

The fact that we need both secondary scoring (desperately) and a top tier center (also desperately) shows just how lacking in ability and talent this team is as presently constituted.

Not a knock on Christensen, who I hope returns, but the fact that he was our de facto #1 center says all you need to know about the state of the Rangers in 09-10.

I am a firm believer that though Anisimov may not have the high end talent to be a star center, he certainly has enough ability to play in that role if he is surrounded by talented wingers. Just not yet. From what I've seen of Stepan, he appears to me to be the same. Different skill sets: Anisimov has very good all around ability while not standing out at any one particular thing, while Stepan appears to have outstanding playmaking ability.

In any case, I am a strong believer in building a team from the center on out. I don't know how the Rangers are going to address this for next year: Anisimov, Drury, and EC (I'm assuming Dubinsky stays on the wing) as our center ice trio just does not give me any great confidence that we will be any better next season. Anismov will improve, Drury will continue to lose his offense abiltiy, and EC is what he is.

If we have both Gabby and Kovy next season, I foresee many posts on these boards bemoaning the fact that we don't have anyone able to get them the puck.

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04-21-2010, 08:04 AM
  #66
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im not sure how this makes any sense whatsoever...Kovalchuk has had a hand in 67% of the offense the Devils have scored...the real question is, where is everyone else, and where is the goaltending?
Same could be said about Rangers comes November. There is no sense to have scorers if there is no puck carriers. Sniper touches the puck briefly, he should skate w/o the puck most of his shifts. Carrying the puck is something that Ds and Cs do. We do not have those. That should be addressed first and that is where money should go before we get another sniper.

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04-21-2010, 08:15 AM
  #67
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See and I think that he is going to go home to mother Russia. I believe that his biggest payday could come from there.
id be shocked, along with the rest of the hockey world

you really think he'll turn down being one of the highest paid players in the NHL for a few mil more? if it was all about money he would have taken the retarded offer he got from Atlanta

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04-21-2010, 08:35 AM
  #68
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Same could be said about Rangers comes November. There is no sense to have scorers if there is no puck carriers. Sniper touches the puck briefly, he should skate w/o the puck most of his shifts. Carrying the puck is something that Ds and Cs do. We do not have those. That should be addressed first and that is where money should go before we get another sniper.
Seriously, have you ever watched Kovalchuk play?

Devils fans criticize him because he carries the puck too much. He does not need a playmaker to thrive offensively.

In fact, he'd probably benefit more by having a couple grinders to just let him go with the puck and drive to the net for rebounds.

EDIT: Personally, I think Drury and Callahan would be ideal complements to his playing style. Defensively sound grinders.

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04-21-2010, 08:41 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by azrok22 View Post


Blaming Kovalchuk for the Devils shortcomings is like blaming the guy who tended bar on the Titanic...

Kovalchuk is one of the few Devils that showed up... unfortunately for Devils fans (and fortunately for us) no one else did.
It's not Kovy's fault that the debbies are losing, but there's still a lesson to be learned there.

Parise + Kovy + Brodeur is not enough to win. You need depth.

Anyone who thinks that Gabby + Kovy + Hank will magically make us cup contenders is wrong. Some people are acting like signing Kovy will solve all our problems. It won't. We'll still be a mediocre team, but we'll have 2 players in the top 10 in scoring. Woohoo.

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04-21-2010, 08:47 AM
  #70
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It's not Kovy's fault that the debbies are losing, but there's still a lesson to be learned there.

Parise + Kovy + Brodeur is not enough to win. You need depth.

Anyone who thinks that Gabby + Kovy + Hank will magically make us cup contenders is wrong. Some people are acting like signing Kovy will solve all our problems. It won't. We'll still be a mediocre team, but we'll have 2 players in the top 10 in scoring. Woohoo.
We'll have two scoring threats and the ability to develop around those stars. We aren't getting stars through the draft. We could trade for one, but that'll be extremely costly, especially a 27 year old one.

I don't see any player equivalent to Kovalchuk hitting UFA in the next five years. I don't think any person advocating for Kovalchuk expects him to make us a cup contender next year. He makes us better, and we probably make the playoffs, but I wouldn't consider us a contender.

What Kovalchuk does, is gives us that second scoring threat (and a dynamic one at that). He allows you to continue to build your core by drafting secondary pieces (ie: Dubinsky, Callahan, etc.) and inserting them into the lineup.

I think Gaborik + Kovalchuk + Lundqvist is as strong a core as you'll find, and we've shown through the draft recently that we can add secondary pieces to complement that core. Unfortunately, the secondary pieces alone aren't going to get us anywhere.

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04-21-2010, 08:53 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by azrok22 View Post
Seriously, have you ever watched Kovalchuk play?

Devils fans criticize him because he carries the puck too much. He does not need a playmaker to thrive offensively.

In fact, he'd probably benefit more by having a couple grinders to just let him go with the puck and drive to the net for rebounds.

EDIT: Personally, I think Drury and Callahan would be ideal complements to his playing style. Defensively sound grinders.
The idea is to build 2 good scoring lines, not have 2 good scoring players. Individual players are much easier to shut down than entire lines. A center would make the whole line better. You need a passer to make the line work.

Look at Jagr, Nylander, Straka in 2005-06. That line was unstoppable until Jagr got hurt. Nylander was great for us, the only true #1 center we've had since the lockout. Since he's been gone, we've struggled to score.

It's not about getting a center to make Gabby better. It's about getting a center to make the entire line better.

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04-21-2010, 09:03 AM
  #72
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We'll have two scoring threats and the ability to develop around those stars. We aren't getting stars through the draft. We could trade for one, but that'll be extremely costly, especially a 27 year old one.

I don't see any player equivalent to Kovalchuk hitting UFA in the next five years. I don't think any person advocating for Kovalchuk expects him to make us a cup contender next year. He makes us better, and we probably make the playoffs, but I wouldn't consider us a contender.

What Kovalchuk does, is gives us that second scoring threat (and a dynamic one at that). He allows you to continue to build your core by drafting secondary pieces (ie: Dubinsky, Callahan, etc.) and inserting them into the lineup.

I think Gaborik + Kovalchuk + Lundqvist is as strong a core as you'll find, and we've shown through the draft recently that we can add secondary pieces to complement that core. Unfortunately, the secondary pieces alone aren't going to get us anywhere.
Excellent post. The team has not been in nor will it be in (barring a trade) a position to draft elite offensive talent any time soon. What the team has been good at is picking darn good players who would look awful good as complements to elite offensive talent.

So, you make a play for Kovy (so long as the contract comes in in the Healtey-Crosby range, not the ridiculousness his agent was looking for), stop accumulating overpaid mediocre cap killers (pretty much anyone acquired as an UFA with a salary between $4.1 and $6.9MM), get rid of the dead wood as quickly as you can and fill in around the top guys with the excellent players we've been drafting recently.

Either that, or it's time to explore trade offers for Hank and Gabby.

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04-21-2010, 09:06 AM
  #73
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We'll have two scoring threats and the ability to develop around those stars. We aren't getting stars through the draft. We could trade for one, but that'll be extremely costly, especially a 27 year old one.

I don't see any player equivalent to Kovalchuk hitting UFA in the next five years. I don't think any person advocating for Kovalchuk expects him to make us a cup contender next year. He makes us better, and we probably make the playoffs, but I wouldn't consider us a contender.

What Kovalchuk does, is gives us that second scoring threat (and a dynamic one at that). He allows you to continue to build your core by drafting secondary pieces (ie: Dubinsky, Callahan, etc.) and inserting them into the lineup.

I think Gaborik + Kovalchuk + Lundqvist is as strong a core as you'll find, and we've shown through the draft recently that we can add secondary pieces to complement that core. Unfortunately, the secondary pieces alone aren't going to get us anywhere.
I think a true 1st line center and a top pairing defenseman are far more important than another superstar winger. just look at past cup winning teams, they basically all had that, while a team like Atlanta couldn't even make the playoffs most years with two superstar wingers.

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04-21-2010, 09:06 AM
  #74
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The idea is to build 2 good scoring lines, not have 2 good scoring players. Individual players are much easier to shut down than entire lines. A center would make the whole line better. You need a passer to make the line work.

Look at Jagr, Nylander, Straka in 2005-06. That line was unstoppable until Jagr got hurt. Nylander was great for us, the only true #1 center we've had since the lockout. Since he's been gone, we've struggled to score.

It's not about getting a center to make Gabby better. It's about getting a center to make the entire line better.
Right, but in no world is Nylander a #1 on his own merits. He was a decent #2 who happened to have good Chemistry with a dominant Jagr. We could easily see Anisimov or Stepan develop into a similar, or frankly better, player than Nylander.

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04-21-2010, 10:24 AM
  #75
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With the cap possibly going to $59 million and Kovy's play in the post-season for the Devils, him coming to the Rangers may be more of a reality. He should get $8 million over 8 years. He can't lead a team to victory by himself, it seems at least. Playing on a team with a goal-scorer like Gaborik will take some of the pressure of him and I think he will be very successful here, especially if he won't be playing against the other teams best shut-down line for parts of the game.

If the cap does indeed go up to somewhere in the $59 million range, the addition of Kovy, Volchenkov, MZA, Hedberg, and may be a solid #5-6 D-man vet could turn this team around big time.

I say a vet #5-6 D-man because I see Sangs and/or Gilroy being dealt at the draft.

Dubinsky - Christiansen - Gaborik
Kovalchuk - Anisimov - MZA
Avery - Drury - Callahan
Prust - Boyle - Shelley

Staal - Roszival
MDZ - Volchenkov
Girardi - Vet Dman
Eriksson

Lundqvist
Hedberg

That is a solid team up and down the line-up and could very well fit under a $59 million salary cap.

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