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04-23-2010, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Jussha View Post
Do people not realize that the purpose of the salary cap was suppose to make teams like Detroit not dominant anymore? to make a even level playing field amongst all 30 teams?
No, parity was supposed to be a byproduct. The cap's MAIN purpose was cost certainty to owners, but I'll address the premise of your point wrt to parity.

Yet, despite all that, it took 4 FULL SEASONS of post-cap hockey to finally have the salary cap really affect Detroit in some manner. Ken Holland is not perfect, no GM is, he may make the wrong decision on certain players to keep and let go, and who do give a shot earlier than others, but all GMs do, name me a GM that has been dead on with which players to keep and let go? If people can't accept that Holland will make mistakes here and there and that the team will no longer dominate the NHL year in and year out you really are spoiled.

The fact that it took 4 FULL SEASONS for the cap to do this to us should leave you grateful that Holland is our GM and should applaud the majority of the moves he has made. And remember, we have been able to remain a top team with out top 10 draft picks over the past 18 years, which is something that all the new top teams have needed in order to even become competitive in a salary cap NHL.

If there was no cap, Holland could have retained almost all these players and we would always have a dominant team, but he doesn't, and he has adapted wonderfully to keeping Detroit in the state they are in in this salary cap NHL.

His small mistakes may add up, but I don't think his small mistakes still add up to what someone would grade as poorer asset management over the other 29 GMs in this league

This is exactly what I tried arguing above. Holland already knows how to manage the cap. He believes in the Patriots model, finding low cost players (undervalued I think is the industry term) and filling as many of the holes as possible, + a higher roster turnover than anyone really wants.

However, what we have witnessed is that this is diametrically opposed to the foundation of the Wings philosophy on how to build teams. Veterans are shed off at a higher rate, as their cost catches up to their contribution-- excepting the mail carriers of the group. Sammy really should have been released in favor of a Leino, assuming that Leino could fill Sammy's shoes (or insert your favorite RFA--- Eaves, Abdelkader, or a vet willing to take a lot less, a la Bertuzzi).

The trick is knowing which veterans to keep, but you absolutely will be limited in how many to retain.

Loyalty to 35+ vets almost has NO place under not only a cap system, but a CBA that punishes you for signing one. There is absolutely no recourse other than LTIR.

Originally Posted by r0bert8841 View Post
He played an entire season in the AHL even though he didn't want to, was one of the Griffins top players, played exceptional in his 13 game call up. Had 11 points in the 1st round of the playoffs for the Griffins which was 6 games.

I feel his problem was he knew he was guaranteed a spot and he became complacent.
Sure, but why let the bonafide 30G guy (Sammy ) leave? Committing that money to Leino surely cost the Wings some other options. He simply was barely an NHL player, so who do you blame for screwing up that projection? $800K is not insignificant if you add in all your 35+ contracts, plus alleged overpayment to the Hudlers, Clearys and even Filppulas of the world. (And JWil, as a quick patch up.)

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04-23-2010, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by doublejack View Post
First, how is that fuzzy math? Many small mistakes add up to a large one. It's obvious.

Secondly, I think you're unfamiliar with my older posts on Howard. Everyone was writing him off with few exceptions, and I was one of the exceptions. I exchanged barbs with Gare Joyce on the matter, and it is one of the primary reasons I have HD on ignore. Good lord.

The hilarious part here is that as it turns out my opinion was 100% in line with what Jimmy D, at least, was thinking.

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04-23-2010, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
Filppula >> Cleary

I love Cleary but man, how you can defend him and then take shots at Filppula is crazy to me. Fil showed (again) that he can produce in the top 6. Hopefully Helm can continue to develop so we can leave Filppula there and not leave a gaping hole in the bottom 6.

This is the first year I've felt that Cleary has been off w/regard to value:cost. Pretty sure I was the one that pointed out he never seemed to get back in the offensive groove after the jaw and retina injuries. (Or was it a corneal rip???)

Since then, he's had ripped up groin muscles that never go away, then the shoulder this season. It ~may~ be possible that his body is paying the price for the aggressive checking/physical game he's been willing to play for the Wings. I still like his energy, flexibility, and heart.

He, Sammy and Flip were all 20G/yr, swing players who ended up on the third line last year. Their production absolutely reflects that-- depth scorers. I think Sammy had the majority of PP time out of the bunch, seeing he was on the point.

Then again, Cleary had 9G/15 pts in the playoffs last year.
For a guy that only had 14G the entire season...... hmmmm. He also was playing with not one, but two, ripped groin muscles!

Fil had 3G/16 pts, contrasted to 12G for the regular season.

Sammy. 5G/10pts playoffs, 19G regular season.

Hudler. 4G/8 pts; 23G reg. season.

Regarding my valuation of any of these guys, it has been qualified every single time---- TOP SIX. If the player isn't going to see TOP SIX minutes, do not pay him ~$3M/yr. Fil as a third line center, getting 12 G is not worth $3M/yr. His problem is that the Wings have centers 1a and 1b. Fil either has to play with Z to see some offensive spark come to life (or another top forward on the team, like a Franzen, Hossa, etc.), which means Z-Dats play together or Filppula is a winger.

I have said that about Cleary, Sammy, Hudler, and Filppula.

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04-23-2010, 03:21 PM
Roy S
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Jimmy D is barely even a part of the front office anymore. Its Holland, Nill, Yzerman and Babcock's show to run now. I wouldn't take anything he says all that seriously at this point. I'm still waiting for us to struggle to make the playoffs with a healthy lineup, as he said we would.

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