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So...you still wanna fire Homer?

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Old
04-23-2010, 10:56 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I think you probably have Betts either way... what irks me is that it's really a "do something about Randy Jones" situation, and not signing Lappy...and there's Knuble on this roster.

Lappy is certainly a good addition independent of that, but I would prefer Knuble for this season and next.
Yeah, having Knuble would be very nice, but at the same time, I love what the Lappy/Betts dynamic does for the team.

I feel like, as good as Knuble has been, we should be able to replace his production and would have done so this season if things had gone differently. Next season, with JVR getting some more time and very hopefully Hartnell turning things around, I feel like we may be able to get by.

It's hard to quantify the impact Lappy has had, 1 mill for 3 goals certainly doesn't sound awesome, but I'd bet that having a guy like that in the room has been a really positive addition and his willingness to sacrifice it all on the ice has been contagious IMO.

I dunno, I'm not necessarily saying that letting Knuble go was the right move, I'm still not sure if it was, but at the same time, I just love what Lappy has brought to the table.

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04-23-2010, 11:01 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I think you probably have Betts either way... what irks me is that it's really a "do something about Randy Jones" situation, and not signing Lappy...and there's Knuble on this roster.

Lappy is certainly a good addition independent of that, but I would prefer Knuble for this season and next.
I dont think it's fair to say because we signed Lappy, Knuble was lost. We all know it was other reasons that Knuble couldnt be signed. Lappy shouldnt be compared to Knuble since they play COMPLETELY different games.

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04-23-2010, 11:02 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
I dont think it's fair to say because we signed Lappy, Knuble was lost. We all know it was other reasons that Knuble couldnt be signed. Lappy shouldnt be compared to Knuble since they play COMPLETELY different games.
Nah I think it's a valid point, pretty much as soon as we signed Lappy, chances of signing Knuble dropped drastically.

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04-23-2010, 11:07 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
I dont think it's fair to say because we signed Lappy, Knuble was lost. We all know it was other reasons that Knuble couldnt be signed. Lappy shouldnt be compared to Knuble since they play COMPLETELY different games.
Knuble didn't get signed because of Jones. We signed Lappy instead...but with limited funds, you cut out Jones' salary and Lappy's 1.2M and there you go. The real point is that if we had signed Knuble (by cutting ties with Jones then), we don't end up signing Lappy.

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04-23-2010, 11:12 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Remember, though, Lappy was brought in to win faceoffs...and that has been an epic failure.
No... Betts was brought to camp to win faceoffs along with killing penalties. And look at how dead on he was with that. Lappy was brought in to be a physical presence on the ice and make us a hard team to play against, and he was dead on with that. Lets not focus on a couple of the best signings the Flyers have executed in my lifetime to argue Homer's incompetence.

While I agree that Homer ****ed things up pretty bad this season I think it would be pretty stupid to dump him now. I think he realizes his ****-ups as much as we do and he's the best person to make sure they never happen again. And I'm sure he has a plan of action and he already started with all the free agent signings.

I love rooting for this team year after year because lets face it, we're pretty lucky to be Flyers fans. It's a rarity for this team to not at least make the playoffs. And yeah, it sucks that they haven't won a cup since over 10 years before I was even born but when we do we're still going to be a great team. As someone brought up earlier we're not one of those teams that has to "rebuild" and face it, Homer deserves some credit for that. He's done way more good than bad.

So my answer is no and I never did.

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04-23-2010, 11:19 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fire bettman View Post
No... Betts was brought to camp to win faceoffs along with killing penalties. And look at how dead on he was with that. Lappy was brought in to be a physical presence on the ice and make us a hard team to play against, and he was dead on with that. Lets not focus on a couple of the best signings the Flyers have executed in my lifetime to argue Homer's incompetence.

While I agree that Homer ****ed things up pretty bad this season I think it would be pretty stupid to dump him now. I think he realizes his ****-ups as much as we do and he's the best person to make sure they never happen again. And I'm sure he has a plan of action and he already started with all the free agent signings.

I love rooting for this team year after year because lets face it, we're pretty lucky to be Flyers fans. It's a rarity for this team to not at least make the playoffs. And yeah, it sucks that they haven't won a cup since over 10 years before I was even born but when we do we're still going to be a great team. As someone brought up earlier we're not one of those teams that has to "rebuild" and face it, Homer deserves some credit for that. He's done way more good than bad.

So my answer is no and I never did.
Actually, no, Holmgren specifically stated in his press conference announcing the signing of Laperriere that he was going to be winning faceoffs for us. To which numerous posters here called BS and, including emailing ASF and getting a humorously ignorant email back from ASF quoting 5-year old faceoff stats for Lappy and how he could help us there.

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04-23-2010, 11:29 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Actually, no, Holmgren specifically stated in his press conference announcing the signing of Laperriere that he was going to be winning faceoffs for us. To which numerous posters here called BS and, including emailing ASF and getting a humorously ignorant email back from ASF quoting 5-year old faceoff stats for Lappy and how he could help us there.
Well that's what I get for not watching that press conference all the way through I'm sure after Betts came to training camp, they were looking at him to be the go to guy for faceoffs. Either way, I don't think you'll disagree Betts and Lappy anchor one of the best 4th lines we could ask for.

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04-23-2010, 11:29 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Actually, no, Holmgren specifically stated in his press conference announcing the signing of Laperriere that he was going to be winning faceoffs for us. To which numerous posters here called BS and, including emailing ASF and getting a humorously ignorant email back from ASF quoting 5-year old faceoff stats for Lappy and how he could help us there.
Dude, who cares what was said in one line of the press conference? The main reasons he was brought here was for penalty killing and leadership. I'd call it a solid signing.

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04-23-2010, 11:29 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Remember, though, Lappy was brought in to win faceoffs...and that has been an epic failure.
Nice, maybe the epitome of a negadelphian.
Lappy has been much more to this team then originally bargained for.

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Old
04-23-2010, 11:50 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Get Carter View Post
Dude, who cares what was said in one line of the press conference? The main reasons he was brought here was for penalty killing and leadership. I'd call it a solid signing.
It matters because poor thinking justifying a decision...is still poor thinking. Now, he may have just been BSing us at the time...but Lappy hasn't won faceoffs in years, and it was a glaring problem on our team last year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cmoneyflyguy View Post
Nice, maybe the epitome of a negadelphian.
Lappy has been much more to this team then originally bargained for.
It was a joke, dude. At Homer's expense.

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Old
04-23-2010, 11:55 PM
  #36
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Not thrilled with all of Homer's moves, but I haven't hopped on the fire Holmgren bandwagon. I think he's done a great job putting talent on the ice, he just needs to avoid Jones and Stevens incidents

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04-24-2010, 12:14 AM
  #37
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Lappy and Knuble could have both been on the team if Holmgren wanted to make hard decisions.

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04-24-2010, 12:26 AM
  #38
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I wonder how most of you felt when we were going into SO against the best SO goalie, fighting for 8th playoff spot?

If Flyers did not make playoffs Homer would have to be cut. No question about it. Now, I do not think that he would be fired but I would want him to be gone.

If Trots was a little smarter he would roll with Gaborik. Yes, Gaborik sucks in SO but come on, Flyers did have Boucher in. Gaborik can score on Boucher.


Can he?

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04-24-2010, 12:44 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Nah I think it's a valid point, pretty much as soon as we signed Lappy, chances of signing Knuble dropped drastically.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Knuble didn't get signed because of Jones. We signed Lappy instead...but with limited funds, you cut out Jones' salary and Lappy's 1.2M and there you go. The real point is that if we had signed Knuble (by cutting ties with Jones then), we don't end up signing Lappy.
Well both these things were contradictory...

One saying we signed Lappy and then couldnt sign Knuble. The other we didnt sign Knuble so we signed Lappy.

Dont know how to respond.

Let me say this, I think Lappy brings ALOT to the table. If Lappy wasnt here, would Carcillo be tamed? Most of Carcillo's actions were controlled because of Lappy and Betts.

I think signing a 4th pairing guy and keeping a top 9 guys could have worked out. There were other choices Homer made that prohibted not signing Knuble, one of them was not signing Lappy.

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04-24-2010, 12:46 AM
  #40
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Gaborik is like 2 for 18 in his career in shootouts. There's the part of me that feels that Torts made the right call, and another part that tell me that you paid Gaborik to be your star player, clutch scorer, so here you go Marian, make $25 million dollars.

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04-24-2010, 01:14 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Well both these things were contradictory...

One saying we signed Lappy and then couldnt sign Knuble. The other we didnt sign Knuble so we signed Lappy.

Dont know how to respond.

Let me say this, I think Lappy brings ALOT to the table. If Lappy wasnt here, would Carcillo be tamed? Most of Carcillo's actions were controlled because of Lappy and Betts.

I think signing a 4th pairing guy and keeping a top 9 guys could have worked out. There were other choices Homer made that prohibted not signing Knuble, one of them was not signing Lappy.
Remember, he was trying to carve out some salary space... so Lappy basically replaced Knuble's roster spot at a cheaper salary. I don't think you end up with both...that's the real point.

Sure, Lappy has turned out great, but the reality is that we should have bumped Jones and kept Knuble and that was a big part of what was going on with how Lappy ended up here.

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04-24-2010, 01:16 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Gaborik is like 2 for 18 in his career in shootouts. There's the part of me that feels that Torts made the right call, and another part that tell me that you paid Gaborik to be your star player, clutch scorer, so here you go Marian, make $25 million dollars.
He's the only reason they were playing for a playoff spot... he earned his money.

That decision right there is why the shootout is a horrible way to end a hockey game, it rewards a skill independent of actually playing the sport.

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04-24-2010, 01:22 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Remember, he was trying to carve out some salary space... so Lappy basically replaced Knuble's roster spot at a cheaper salary. I don't think you end up with both...that's the real point.

Sure, Lappy has turned out great, but the reality is that we should have bumped Jones and kept Knuble and that was a big part of what was going on with how Lappy ended up here.
I think its pretty easy to say "if's " and "and's". What if Knuble did sign. Does Betts gets signed (VERY important player). Does JVR play up or the AHL?

But I actually fail to see this debate? What are we arguing over? Who's more important? What should have been done?

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04-24-2010, 01:25 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by The Inebriator View Post
Not thrilled with all of Homer's moves, but I haven't hopped on the fire Holmgren bandwagon. I think he's done a great job putting talent on the ice, he just needs to avoid Jones and Stevens incidents
Thats my feelings exactly. I'm not on the fire him bandwagon. More on the 'Take him out to the desert, rough him up a bit, and let him know what's in store if the Jones **** happens again.' type thing bandwagon.

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04-24-2010, 01:41 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
I think its pretty easy to say "if's " and "and's". What if Knuble did sign. Does Betts gets signed (VERY important player). Does JVR play up or the AHL?

But I actually fail to see this debate? What are we arguing over? Who's more important? What should have been done?
Betts is cheap as hell, and we would have needed a center with or without Knuble...so, yes, I think Betts is still here.

The issue is that rather than nix Jones from the plans over the summer and re-sign Knuble, we kept Jones (and his salary) in the picture through training camp. Lost Knuble, and signed Lappy.

Given that we never really signed a true "third line center" if you sign Knuble, that goes a long way towards helping this team role the three "scoring lines" that they've struggled with all season.

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04-24-2010, 02:43 AM
  #46
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Ian Laperriere's blocked shot changed the way the remainder of these playoffs will be viewed by fans and players around the world. The mushfaced Philadelphia Flyers winger sacrificed his body for the team (I think Homer knew something the rest of us didn't)...a credo often talked about in the media but rarely seen on display in the "New NHL". As I sit and watch game five between Montreal and Washington and listen to the talking heads ruminate about the effect of Lappy's sacrifice on his own team I can't help but notice how many Canadien and Caps players are suddenly giving it up for their respective teams...


Pronger, Boucher and Laperriere have reignited the passion of NHL playoff hockey for us all. If you saw the play you knew that Philly would not lose this game....as a matter of fact I contend that New Jersey basically quit after the face block. They knew that the Flyers wanted it more and no matter how much lip service guys like Kovalchump paid to predictions Lappy's sacrifice was the exactly what leads to championships. (I can just imagine what Marty was thinking to himself at that point)
I'm 44 and have seen some remarkable feats in sports ...i'm just not sure how many have changed a game or more importantly, a championship run, the way this play has done? The Flyers will be a tough out from this point on...Bring on Washington!

No matter what happens the rest of the way...I will admire Ian Laperriere as an athlete / person forever.

GO FLYERS
Randy Jones.

Oh, and how about Scott Hartnell's contract, Prongers contract till he is 42, Briere's contract, letting Knuble walk to keep Randy Jones, refusing to get a goalie and getting into the playoffs by the skin of our teeth.

Also, Lupul's AWFUL contract, the picks he gives away to rid himself of these contracts. His magical ability to trade away every 1st rounder we have or drafted since we took JVR.

I could do with someone else offering contracts to these players. The fact of the matter is this team has a LOT of problems and zero capspace to fix it. That's on the GM. Not to mention the capspace is gone and everyone is tied up LONGTERM.

So yeah, I wouldn't mind seeing someone else brought in.

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Old
04-24-2010, 08:25 AM
  #47
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unless this team somehow comes home with a giant cup, yes, i would like his ass fired

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04-24-2010, 08:34 AM
  #48
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Yes, I want him gone. Holmgren has done very little to show me that he is capable of seeing the big picture and looking toward the future.

In terms of our team makeup, certain aspects of it are built for the playoffs, which is nice, but let's be honest -- that regular season was inexcusable. We are still short a 3rd line center, a goalie (!), and probably a top 9 wing (for Richards) since Knuble was never replaced.

I'm very reluctant to give Homer another year b/c I don't trust him to fix the problems. For the last few springs/summers, we're always waiting for him to build the complete team or fix something he messed up -- but instead he fixes one spot and creates another problem, which we can't have happening.

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04-24-2010, 09:14 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Actually, no, Holmgren specifically stated in his press conference announcing the signing of Laperriere that he was going to be winning faceoffs for us. To which numerous posters here called BS and, including emailing ASF and getting a humorously ignorant email back from ASF quoting 5-year old faceoff stats for Lappy and how he could help us there.
true, he did say Lappy would help on face offs but I thought it was more along the lines that because of his competitive nature he hated even losing face-offs and that was something they hoped would rub off on Carter and Richards.

Regardless, there are two areas that I thought Homer messed up this season.

1.Trying to pass Jones through waivers and costing the team $1.5MM in cap space.

2. Not replacing Knuble in the lineup. Not so much his scoring but his net presence. They lacked a big body in front all season. This team went long stretches of scoring droughts which is when you need a garbage guy to chip in goals. Bertuzzi.

Emery was a good signing whether or not it was out of necessity. He was a top 15 goalie when healthy at $1.5MM (?). Pronger trade though expensive is hard to argue with. Betts dollar for dollar one of best signings this season. Leino trade. Krajicek pickup.

Homer's screw ups were from season's past. Mainly Jones.
Briere-expensive but majority was behind the signing.

Kimo/Hartnell - helped turn the team around trade. Hartnell can be lived with when he gets 25 goals. He is an albatross when he doesn't chip in goals. See how next season goes.

Lupul/Smith - helped get team to conference finals.

This season the team had a 30 goal scorer out for 2 months with surgery (Gagne), Hartnell went from 30 to 14 goals, Emery goes down, and Giroux/JVR had too much expected of them in light of losing Knuble but then again if Gagne & Hartnell have normal season you may not have noticed it.

BIG QUESTION -

If you have a goalie in your system that showed stretches of lights out goaltending in the NHL, was successful at the AHL, wins a championship in the AHL, and wins MVP of the Olympics for carrying his team to a silver medal is that ignoring your goaltending situation? Did they assume they had a young goalie to take the reigns in Nitty while the other goalies in their system needed severals to see how they turned out (Ericcson?)?

Many teams have goalie prospects that don't turn out to be THE GUY in the NHL. In the past 10 years the Flyers had 2 young goalies in the system have success but not be THE GUY so they tried free agents. Other teams force guys like Dan Cloutier down their fan base throats.

Boucher - won in the AHL as a young goalie, went to game 7 of conference finals, has record for longest stretch with no goals but was never able to be THE GUY.

Nitty - despite sucess was never able to be THE GUY. Maybe becuase of injuries (hip?) but he is still young.

Bottomline Homer needs to better in areas but I doubt Snider has had his full of the guy especially if they have a good showing in this round.

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04-24-2010, 09:56 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by flyersfan1221 View Post
...as a matter of fact I contend that New Jersey basically quit after the face block. They knew that the Flyers wanted it more and no matter how much lip service guys like Kovalchump paid to predictions Lappy's sacrifice was the exactly what leads to championships.
I agree 100%.

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