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Old
04-23-2010, 11:10 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by hlundqvist30 View Post
Deon Grant is not a starting safety anymore. If he was, then why would he sign in NY knowing that he would be a backup? That is, unless Phillips isn't healthy...
Deon Grant is 31 and has started 144 games in a row. Why is everyone so ready to proclaim him as nothing more than a backup all of a sudden? He's no Pro Bowler, but he's more than capable of contributing as a starter.

He signed here because of the possibility that Phillips won't be back in time or at his previous level, that's true. But that doesn't mean that's his ceiling, and his presence is enough to make safety a far less pressing need than just about anything other than QB or WR.

What bothers me the most is that Reese's history has always been to target needs early. In the past 7 or 8 years, Kiwanuka has been the only other non-need-based first pick. Nicks, Ross, Phillips, Webster, Manning, Joseph, Shockey -- all picks that addressed an immediate need. And now, when the team has more needs than ever, he keeps going after picks that are based much more on "best player available" instead.

I'm not saying what Reese is doing this year is going to fail, because obviously one can never truly evaluate a draft until at least a year later. But I think he's changing things up more than ever, and that worries me.

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Old
04-23-2010, 11:17 PM
  #77
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Jets cut Faneca:

http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/201...rd_alan_f.html

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04-23-2010, 11:37 PM
  #78
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yup, bad move in my opinion.

i hear ellis is next. oh boy i hope not.

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04-24-2010, 01:37 AM
  #79
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We can't cut Ellis....who's gonna play DE?

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04-24-2010, 06:55 AM
  #80
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I love it. The guy is saying that Phillips is healthy. Yet we go out and sign another safety and draft one. Take a wild guess what that means, clmetsfan. Use your brain for this one.

All the rumblings coming out of the organization have been negative on Phillips so far. Reese said back in late February that we were going into the offseason as if Phillips is not going to be playing. Meaning we'd need at least 3 safeties. I'm not going around hunting for quotes, simply because every single move the organization has made so far should clue you in enough about how wrong you are. Kenny might play the first game (and I hope he can play EVERY game). He might never play again. Who knows? You really want to have another Can't Cover Brown problem this year?

And what running back would you want? My God, man. There are PLENTY of options. We need a short yardage guy. Blount is still available and will be in the 5th/6th rounds. He should be our guy. You don't spend a ******* high pick on a runningback unless it's a gamechanger like Spiller at this point. Not with our solid depth at RB.

We have 4 potential starting RBs right now already. 5 if you want to count Johnson, who I'm pretty high on anyway.

Reese has never truly targeted need. He's always picked BPA. Usually he's had a choice of a few guys that he's ranked similarly, and he's been able to make an educated pick of a need area at that. But to say he's drafted need (and what you're insinuating is that he's reached for these picks) is stupid.

On Lee: Mayock loves lee. He's a huge fan of his and was shocked when he fell outside of the early 2nd. Every mock around has had Lee going either REALLY late second or into the 3rd/4th rounds. I like Mayock a lot and I think he's usually on base a lot more than Kiper is on these things, but he straight up said that Lee is not worth a first or early 2nd round pick unless a team just needs a MLB.

**** drafting for need. Honestly, it's simply stupid to do. There are solid MLBs available.

The whole strategy is going to be killing the run up the middle and eliminating the need for a killer MLB. Hence the Joseph choice. Reese saw NO MLBs that he liked at 46 and went with a guy who's job is to stop the run in it's tracks. Pairing him with Canty/Cofield will see that the MLB will have much less to do and will simply be there more for pass defense and to get the run if our two behemoth's miss.

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Old
04-24-2010, 06:57 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 17futurecap View Post
Giants should be calling him right now. Anything to get rid of Seubert.

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04-24-2010, 10:11 AM
  #82
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Giants take Phillip Dillard, ILB from Nebraska, with their 4th round pick...another big, fast and physical player.

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Old
04-24-2010, 10:22 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by clmetsfan View Post
I'm not saying what Reese is doing this year is going to fail, because obviously one can never truly evaluate a draft until at least a year later. But I think he's changing things up more than ever, and that worries me.
From what's I've heard/read, Reese and the Giants feel that there was a major dropoff in talent after Rolando McClain. No point in reaching for a player just to fill a need.

They just picked up ILB Phillip Dillard. Don't know much about him, but his combine numbers aren't very impressive. Hopefully he's one of those guys who's a football player first and an athelete second. A guy who makes plays despite not being the fastest or strongest.


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04-24-2010, 10:24 AM
  #84
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Well, theres a linebacker. I'd like a recieving or, as Jon said, maybe a 3rd and 1 running back too. Droughns was pretty good at that one year i'd like to get a guy like him.

We shouldnt have to run risky pitch plays to Bradshaw on 3rd and 1 because Jacobs runs too high for short yardage.

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04-24-2010, 10:35 AM
  #85
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First of all, I never said that Phillips is healthy, I said that your claim of "All signs point to Phillips not playing much or at all for us this year" is flat out wrong. You're not gonna go hunting for quotes because they don't freaking exist.

And by showing all those picks that filled an immediate need, I was not insinuating that Reese was reaching. Believe it or not, there's rarely one player available that stands out above all others. You believe that when we drafted Nicks the best player available just happened to fill our most glaring need? And the same with Aaron Ross? Phillips? Give me a break. Those years the Giants had serious dearth at those positions, and they made sure they got the best guy available to fill those needs.

This year their absolute biggest need was at MLB. McClain was obviously the best fit, but Al Davis reached again (Heyward-Bey was the guy the Giants really wanted last year) and there's nothing that could have been done about it. But now we have absurd depth on the defensive line and at safety (8 defensive linemen, 4 safeties -- 6 if you include Johnson and Brown). And our MLB is probably going to be Jonathan Goff again.

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04-24-2010, 10:38 AM
  #86
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Quote:
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Giants should be calling him right now. Anything to get rid of Seubert.
Brilliant. Let's get even older on the offensive line.

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04-24-2010, 10:42 AM
  #87
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Can always try that 5-1-5 defensive scheme again.

2 DTs, 3 DEs, 1 linebacker (Goff or Boley) 3 CBs and 2 Safeties.

Always loved the sound of that formation. The CBs would just need to play tight on the recievers to not leave gaping holes from the area 5 to 10 years down the sideline from the line of scrimmage.

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04-24-2010, 10:48 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
Can always try that 5-1-5 defensive scheme again.

2 DTs, 3 DEs, 1 linebacker (Goff or Boley) 3 CBs and 2 Safeties.

Always loved the sound of that formation. The CBs would just need to play tight on the recievers to not leave gaping holes from the area 5 to 10 years down the sideline from the line of scrimmage.
I just threw up in my mouth.

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Old
04-24-2010, 11:03 AM
  #89
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Well, they got an ILB, that's cool. Man, everyone here has thrown Goff under the bus, no under a truck. He's played all of a year and a half ans has progressed each season. Maybe he'll get even better this season. He's a monster on special teams already and he was fine when inserted last year, it wasn't his fault the entire defense was a mess.

Faneca? I'd be down for a year. Between McKenzie and Seubert, those guys seem to get hurt at least once a game.

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04-24-2010, 11:46 AM
  #90
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Petrus, an offensive line project is the Giants 5th round pick.

Some of the guys up there are getting older so the selections of Beatty and now Petrus make sense so we can phase them in over time.

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04-24-2010, 12:05 PM
  #91
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Jets trade up in round 4 to grab Joe McKnight, RB from USC, ultimately spelling the end of Leon Washington in NY.

Jets then trade Washington + a 7th to Seattle for a 5th, taking John Conner, a FB from Kentucky.

Washington and Faneca both gone...uggh.

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04-24-2010, 03:01 PM
  #92
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I trust Tanny and Rex. If they think these moves are for the best, both now and down the road, I'm in.

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04-24-2010, 04:11 PM
  #93
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I guess with the addition of LT, they thought Leon was expendable. LT will be their third down back and is a great pass-catching back so he can be used on screens and such. Leon's also coming off major surgery so that's another question mark with him. I'm comfortable with a backfield of Greene, LT and McKnight. Greene the power back, McKnight the quick, open-field back, and LT the third-down back. McKnight looks like he can return kicks as well, so Leon shouldn't be missed too much.

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04-24-2010, 06:45 PM
  #94
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It's a huge vote of confidence in McKnight. Makes sense financially, for sure.

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04-24-2010, 06:47 PM
  #95
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well sharper and adalius thomas r probably gonna be jets too at some point.

the only question is weather faneca can be replaced.

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04-24-2010, 10:28 PM
  #96
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I guess with the addition of LT, they thought Leon was expendable. LT will be their third down back and is a great pass-catching back so he can be used on screens and such. Leon's also coming off major surgery so that's another question mark with him. I'm comfortable with a backfield of Greene, LT and McKnight. Greene the power back, McKnight the quick, open-field back, and LT the third-down back. McKnight looks like he can return kicks as well, so Leon shouldn't be missed too much.
He can, but he didn't do a lot of it his last year and a half at SC. In fact, I can only recall one time where he returned a kick for a substantial return, and that was in his freshman year.

SC special teams have been pretty crappy for a while so maybe that had something to do with it because he was almost an instant TD on punt returns in HS, but then again it was HS.

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04-24-2010, 10:42 PM
  #97
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I like what I've been reading/seeing about John Conner. Tony Richardson likely has 1 year left and then Conner will be our FB of the future.

Seems like a very confident, well spoken kid


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04-25-2010, 01:21 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by clmetsfan View Post
You believe that when we drafted Nicks the best player available just happened to fill our most glaring need? And the same with Aaron Ross? Phillips? Give me a break. Those years the Giants had serious dearth at those positions, and they made sure they got the best guy available to fill those needs.
Nicks was abso****inglutely the BPA there and Phillips was as well. You honestly think either Phillips or Nicks weren't BPA there? They were BPA and fit a need.

Ross is a bit of a bad pick, but he went right where he was expected to.

You're so funny. You think that none of those guys were BPA? My God, man. Nothing else to say. You are just straight up lost.

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04-25-2010, 01:30 AM
  #99
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So, outside the JPP pick, I love this draft job. Reese did a phenomenal job. Joseph and Jones were HUGE value picks for Reese. Both should've went higher than they did.

Love the Dodge pick, since it looks like Feagles is going to retire. Dodge is a solid directional kicker. Doesn't have HUGE range, but adequate enough. Dodge is the best punter in the draft and he's a great late round pick.

Special teams was really addressed in this draft. Jones might have been one of the best special teams players available in any round. He's an absolute buzzsaw out there and can return punts with the best of them. Dodge is going to be our punter for the next 10 years, hopefully. He has a good leg and GREAT directional punting skills. He's also huge for a punter.

I like the Petrus pick. I look at him as a depth player with the potential to start. He's an extremely athletic guard, but he's a littler guy for an offensive line player, being that he started out as a walk on tight end. He's very fast and agile, though, so he has a lot of potential.

Dillard is fine as a MLB choice in the 4th. The Giants were simply not sold on any MLB in this draft:

"Obviously [Rolando] McClain and then there may have been a big drop off. I don't want to say it was weak but for us we didn't have a lot of guys at high value there."


The whining is just hysterical. Wahhhh wahhh they didn't reach for a lb wahhhhh wahhhh they drafted a safety and a DT wahhhhh wahhhhhhhhhhhhh. Clearly our scouts were NOT fans of any of them and for good reason. It was not a good year at all for MLB prospects. TONS of OLB depth, but very little substance for the inner guys.

This draft is ALL upside. Every player has great upside for their position and every player has the potential to do nothing at all in the NFL. Gotta love Reese taking risky guys each pick for the most part (only safe guy really is Dodge).

Great draft, overall. Puts the JPP pick in perspective. Home runs on each of these picks. Reese has some major balls.

In Reese we trust.

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Old
04-25-2010, 10:08 AM
  #100
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Kiper gave both the Jets and Giants a B.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft...perDraftGrades

Scouts, Inc. did some crazy thing where they created a formula to evaluate the draft, based on value per pick or something and taking into account trades before the draft. Jets were 4th, Giants 30th.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft...ory?id=5133008

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