HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Notices

Patrick Thoresen - back to Philadelphia?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-24-2010, 04:57 PM
  #51
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 13,984
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Sure it is...how does that translate to less ice, better goalies, better defenders, and a significantly more physical game?

Powe succeeds in the NHL because he's a smart player and keeps his game extremely simple. The thing I like the most about him is that he's one of the few bottom 6 guys with a little bit of skill that never seems to try to do too much and get himself into trouble...just does his job. It works in the NHL. When Thor was in the NHL he was an offensive void, and didn't bring anything remotely close to the physical game we see from guys like those. Asham and Powe are great in Lavy's system because they are the guys that get in on that aggressive forecheck you love and hit guys.
Thoresen is a voracious forechecker. He brings energy and isn't exactly a non-physical European.

So this really doesn't matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Well, he was 23 when he was over there...but that's moot. I'm not sure why you wouldn't care about how he fared while in the NHL though...you know, evidence of his play in this league. Throwing that out there is like throwing out the murder weapon in a murder case.
He's played very well in this league. I agree that throwing out his NHL play is pointless, but it's equally pointless to misinterpret his NHL play, which you have significantly. Thoresen wasn't some kid putting up 5 PPG on Washington's third line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Interesting theory.

In 106 games, Thor has 0.06 goals per game.

Powe: 0.12 through 123 games.
Asham: 0.13 through 648 games.
Again, throwing out static numbers without context is a waste of typing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Asham has been a consistent 20-30 point guy throughout his career, which is probably what you may expect from Thor. I would suspect he could outscore Powe in point totals just because Powe isn't big on the assist thing, more of a put it on net and see what happens type (though, he has put up a few more points when above the 4th line).
Asham has been a consistent TWENTY point guy for most of his career. He scored more than 24 points once in his career. I just did his career PPG and found out that he's averaged 22 points a season through his career. Thoresen averaged 18.

However, in Asham's first 121 NHL games (comparable to Thoresen's 108), Asham average 13 points per season with more offensively talented teams.

He did probably get less ice time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Or he's just a tweener offensively that can get it done below the NHL, but struggles offensively at the faster speed and shorter windows of the NHL...which is kind of what he looked like when he was here.
Or he has the speed, talent, puck-sharking capabilities to be a real offensive compliment, particularly in Laviolette's system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Look, I wouldn't be against bringing him back if we're going to move on from Asham. Though, Asham's cheap and dependable...which I like. However, I'm pretty skeptical of any claims of real improvement based on what we saw of him previously.
Asham is probably not going to be back. It wouldn't shock me. I don't think he belonged in the top nine whereas Thoresen would. Asham had his role forced on him thanks to our lack of top 9 read forwards, and our bizarre desire to field three scoring lines instead of a legitimate 3rd line. Granted, I'll leave that as my opinion.

CS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-24-2010, 05:15 PM
  #52
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Thoresen is a voracious forechecker. He brings energy and isn't exactly a non-physical European.

So this really doesn't matter.
No, but he's also giving away considerably weight and strength to both guys you're talking about.

Quote:
He's played very well in this league. I agree that throwing out his NHL play is pointless, but it's equally pointless to misinterpret his NHL play, which you have significantly. Thoresen wasn't some kid putting up 5 PPG on Washington's third line.
How have I misinterpreted it? By not coloring it in red hearts and starbursts that make it look splendid?

Quote:
Again, throwing out static numbers without context is a waste of typing.
And throwing out subjective man-crush opinions is, while tossing aside empirical data when it goes against that.

Quote:
Asham has been a consistent TWENTY point guy for most of his career. He scored more than 24 points once in his career. I just did his career PPG and found out that he's averaged 22 points a season through his career. Thoresen averaged 18.

However, in Asham's first 121 NHL games (comparable to Thoresen's 108), Asham average 13 points per season with more offensively talented teams.

He did probably get less ice time.
So, I said he's been a consistent 20-30 point guy (note, this is a specific range) and this is your response? Over the last 6 seasons, he's scored: 24, 24, 23, 10, 20, and 24 while missing a handful of games in those seasons. Looks like a consistent 20-30 guy to me.

In fact, if you take out the years that Asham played before Thor made it to the NHL... Asham is a very consistent goal scorer.

Quote:
Or he has the speed, talent, puck-sharking capabilities to be a real offensive compliment, particularly in Laviolette's system.
Not at all flavored by the fact that you simply like him and want to have him on the team...

Quote:
Asham is probably not going to be back. It wouldn't shock me. I don't think he belonged in the top nine whereas Thoresen would. Asham had his role forced on him thanks to our lack of top 9 read forwards, and our bizarre desire to field three scoring lines instead of a legitimate 3rd line. Granted, I'll leave that as my opinion.
Wouldn't be shocked at all to see Asham go, more analyzing the belief that Thor is some significant upgrade... of which there is almost zero evidence even offensively, which is the one area where you would expect there to be evidence he'd be an improvement apparently.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-24-2010, 05:22 PM
  #53
Giroux tha Damaja
Registered User
 
Giroux tha Damaja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Mount Holly, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 9,232
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Giroux tha Damaja
I would love to have him back. Asham coming back wouldn't be too bad either though. He's been a good soldier during his time here IMO. Thor, Lappy, Betts, Powe . . . I could definitely dig it.

Giroux tha Damaja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-24-2010, 05:36 PM
  #54
Valhoun*
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: West Chester, PA
Posts: 10,311
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Valhoun*
If Thor comes back it is because this team has no cap space and we need another body because Asham or another bottom 6 guy is gone.

Valhoun* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-24-2010, 05:42 PM
  #55
PhilaFlyers
Registered User
 
PhilaFlyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 8,112
vCash: 300
Awesome, I have no clue why but he was one of my favorite players when he was here.

PhilaFlyers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-24-2010, 05:51 PM
  #56
Clown Baby
Registered User
 
Clown Baby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,536
vCash: 500
Powe drew 22 penalties to the 13 he took, spent 72:46 on the PK, won 95 of 210 faceoffs as a winger, and hits like a truck - helps when you're the fastest skater on the team*, and built like a brick ****-house. This post-season, he's played 8:26 on the PK, and hasn't lost a single face-off (3-0).

*http://www.trentonian.com/articles/2...b636198116.txt

Why are we talking about dumping him off a total unknown again?

Clown Baby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-24-2010, 06:00 PM
  #57
DrinkFightFlyers
Grave Before Shave
 
DrinkFightFlyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,253
vCash: 155
Send a message via AIM to DrinkFightFlyers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clown Baby View Post
Powe drew 22 penalties to the 13 he took, spent 72:46 on the PK, won 95 of 210 faceoffs as a winger, and hits like a truck - helps when you're the fastest skater on the team*, and built like a brick ****-house. This post-season, he's played 8:26 on the PK, and hasn't lost a single face-off (3-0).

*http://www.trentonian.com/articles/2...b636198116.txt

Why are we talking about dumping him off a total unknown again?
I'd rather dump Asham. Not that I don't like him, but Asham is just a slightly different version of Lappy and Carcillo. Not quite the agitator as Carcillo but a better fighter. Not quite the defender as Lappy but better offensively. Thoresen is a different type of player as Carcillo/Lappy/Asham. He is a gritty heart "give it all you got 100% of the time" type player with a potential for some offensive upside. I'm not saying he'll come in and be an all-star, but he brings something different to the table that Asham doesn't.

DrinkFightFlyers is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-24-2010, 06:09 PM
  #58
wahoowa
All in the Game
 
wahoowa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Washington, DC
Country: United States
Posts: 945
vCash: 500
I like Thor a lot, but is he a significant enough upgrade over Powe or Asham, both who play solid roles for the team and don't tend to do stupid things? Not in my mind. Would love for him to catch on somewhere in the NHL, however.

wahoowa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-24-2010, 06:28 PM
  #59
FlyerX
Registered User
 
FlyerX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 814
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I'd rather dump Asham. Not that I don't like him, but Asham is just a slightly different version of Lappy and Carcillo. Not quite the agitator as Carcillo but a better fighter. Not quite the defender as Lappy but better offensively. Thoresen is a different type of player as Carcillo/Lappy/Asham. He is a gritty heart "give it all you got 100% of the time" type player with a potential for some offensive upside. I'm not saying he'll come in and be an all-star, but he brings something different to the table that Asham doesn't.
It cracks me up when I read someone who fawns over some Euro and wants to give him a spot over a proven NHLer because of a good year in some Euro league or a decent pre-seaosn, like Pyro had.

Who else do you want to bring back, Shark Afanasenkov? He had 13 goals in only 50 games in the KHL this year. Think what he could do in 80 games.

FlyerX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-24-2010, 06:57 PM
  #60
Terence Peterman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 5,296
vCash: 500
I don't think Asham being somewhat redundant on this team is a bad thing. It's not as if he's a top six guy where we've already got that type of scoring skill set and would be better off looking for a different dynamic. Having a bottom six that plays a similar, reliable game not only helps the team come together but gives them a persona teams don't exactly look forward to playing.

He contributes to an identity and answers anyone on the opposition who feels the need to question it. This team needs that (and no, we don't have enough with just Laperriere and the rest of the current bottom six). He's been good throughout his whole tenure as a Flyer, and has been marvelous for stretches of this year. I'm not sacrificing that for Patrick Thoreson in any hypothetical. Sustained character isn't something that should be so easily dismissed, particularly with this team.

Terence Peterman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-24-2010, 06:58 PM
  #61
mm6492
Registered User
 
mm6492's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 8,518
vCash: 500
I think Powe is a valuable player. Irreplaceable? No. Valuable? Yes.

His speed is a valuable asset on our team. And in Laviolettes system, his forechecking and energy help out as well.

mm6492 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-24-2010, 07:04 PM
  #62
RoDu
Shagga likes axes
 
RoDu's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,444
vCash: 500
I respect Thor for blocking a slap shot for us with his package, always will, and he may fit better in the system than Asham, but I'd rather have the hitting machine Powe or a youngster like Kalinski or Legein over him anyday

RoDu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-24-2010, 08:34 PM
  #63
flyersfan1221
Registered User
 
flyersfan1221's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Lancaster, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 165
vCash: 500
Phantoms?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyerX View Post
What they need to do is hold on to draft picks and get the Phantoms developing useful NHL players again.
No kidding! I was looking at the AHL stat site and Adirondac has no one in any top offensive categories. I'm guessing that most of there forwards are out of options and that's the reason we didn't have many call ups?

flyersfan1221 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-24-2010, 08:39 PM
  #64
FlyerX
Registered User
 
FlyerX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 814
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyersfan1221 View Post
No kidding! I was looking at the AHL stat site and Adirondac has no one in any top offensive categories. I'm guessing that most of there forwards are out of options and that's the reason we didn't have many call ups?
I'm still hopeful Maroon can turn into a useful big-body forward. Bourdon and Marshall seem like good D prospects. After that, it's pretty dubious.

FlyerX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-24-2010, 08:39 PM
  #65
DrinkFightFlyers
Grave Before Shave
 
DrinkFightFlyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,253
vCash: 155
Send a message via AIM to DrinkFightFlyers
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyerX View Post
It cracks me up when I read someone who fawns over some Euro and wants to give him a spot over a proven NHLer because of a good year in some Euro league or a decent pre-seaosn, like Pyro had.

Who else do you want to bring back, Shark Afanasenkov? He had 13 goals in only 50 games in the KHL this year. Think what he could do in 80 games.
He's got some NHL experience. I never said he will be an all star or anything like that. He has about the same points per game production as Asham and Powe. It certainly doesn't hurt that he is having a good season in Europe. The Flyers don't really need all three Asham, Carcillo, and Lappy. Carcillo and Lappy bring more to the table, so there is no real need for Asham. Thoresen isn't a bruiser like Asham but his offensive skills are AT LEAST the same if not better. Thoresen definitely has more potential offensive upside than Asham, that is for sure.

DrinkFightFlyers is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-24-2010, 09:12 PM
  #66
FlyerX
Registered User
 
FlyerX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 814
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
He's got some NHL experience. I never said he will be an all star or anything like that. He has about the same points per game production as Asham and Powe. It certainly doesn't hurt that he is having a good season in Europe. The Flyers don't really need all three Asham, Carcillo, and Lappy. Carcillo and Lappy bring more to the table, so there is no real need for Asham. Thoresen isn't a bruiser like Asham but his offensive skills are AT LEAST the same if not better. Thoresen definitely has more potential offensive upside than Asham, that is for sure.
I liked Thoresen when he was here but no way I consider him an upgrade from Asham. The real question on the wing is what's going to happen with Hartnell anyway, especially if he doesn't show anything next round. I don't see how the Flyers could stand dumping Hartnell and not resigning Asham in the same off season.

FlyerX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-24-2010, 09:25 PM
  #67
mja
Negative Creep
 
mja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,998
vCash: 500
If there is one thing this team doesn't need, it is swapping out it's bottom 6 forwards, who do nothing but show chemistry, heart, and contribute. All of them are fine, more than fine in fact. Why move any of them?

Hartnell sucking and having no bona fide number 1 goalie are really the two big problems on the team. I even like having Carcillo on the top line.

mja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-24-2010, 09:42 PM
  #68
Terence Peterman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 5,296
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mja View Post
If there is one thing this team doesn't need, it is swapping out it's bottom 6 forwards, who do nothing but show chemistry, heart, and contribute. All of them are fine, more than fine in fact. Why move any of them?

Hartnell sucking and having no bona fide number 1 goalie are really the two big problems on the team. I even like having Carcillo on the top line.
Ok...Hartnell having an awful year really isn't one of the team's major problems. If it was, you could reasonably state he's the reason the team as a whole was largely inconsistent, and that's just not the case.

Terence Peterman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-24-2010, 10:19 PM
  #69
ilovetheflyers8
Registered User
 
ilovetheflyers8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: D.C.
Country: French Guiana Independentist
Posts: 4,877
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by treeman View Post
i love the guy.. played his nuts off when he was here
http://www.instantrimshot.com/

ilovetheflyers8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-24-2010, 10:35 PM
  #70
mja
Negative Creep
 
mja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,998
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonny View Post
Ok...Hartnell having an awful year really isn't one of the team's major problems. If it was, you could reasonably state he's the reason the team as a whole was largely inconsistent, and that's just not the case.
The inconsistency is simply unexplainable.

It certainly isn't because of the play of the bottom 6, as they've been the most consistent players on the team outside of Pronger.

Hartnell having an awful year messes up the jams quite a bit, suddenly the Flyers have a hodge-podge second line of two great individual but very streaky scorers and a black hole where Scott Hartnell is supposed to be.

If Hartnell scores 30 this year like he did last year, and helps set up Briere & Carter more, this team would have been in MUCH better shape.

mja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-24-2010, 10:44 PM
  #71
flyfan795
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 80
vCash: 500
It would be a complete and utter waste of a roster spot. You would think by now they would have figured out that they do not need to waste roster spots are some useless fringe Euro like they do every year (Pyorala, Thoresen, Afanasenkov, etc)

flyfan795 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-25-2010, 12:21 AM
  #72
Terence Peterman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 5,296
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mja View Post
The inconsistency is simply unexplainable.

It certainly isn't because of the play of the bottom 6, as they've been the most consistent players on the team outside of Pronger.

Hartnell having an awful year messes up the jams quite a bit, suddenly the Flyers have a hodge-podge second line of two great individual but very streaky scorers and a black hole where Scott Hartnell is supposed to be.

If Hartnell scores 30 this year like he did last year, and helps set up Briere & Carter more, this team would have been in MUCH better shape.
It's still unreasonable to consider him the root of the team's biggest problem. He's effecting only his linemates at any given time, not the whole team, let alone for all 60 minutes.

Terence Peterman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-25-2010, 07:14 AM
  #73
FlyerX
Registered User
 
FlyerX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 814
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyfan795 View Post
It would be a complete and utter waste of a roster spot. You would think by now they would have figured out that they do not need to waste roster spots are some useless fringe Euro like they do every year (Pyorala, Thoresen, Afanasenkov, etc)
And Leino is a better player than all three of those guys and you see where he was on the depth chart.

FlyerX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-25-2010, 07:39 AM
  #74
TheDrizzle81
Registered User
 
TheDrizzle81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Marlton NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 5,357
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to TheDrizzle81
Pat is one of my favorites id take him back

TheDrizzle81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-25-2010, 09:31 AM
  #75
Kaktus*
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: PA
Posts: 22,389
vCash: 500
We do not need him. We need size on RW.

Kaktus* is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:04 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.