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Official 2010 NFL Thread (All Jets, Giants and General NFL talk here)

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Old
04-25-2010, 11:46 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
I love it. The guy is saying that Phillips is healthy. Yet we go out and sign another safety and draft one. Take a wild guess what that means, clmetsfan. Use your brain for this one.
I met Lawrence Tynes yesterday. He said he saw Phillips running hard earlier in the week and should be ready to go. I asked him if he thought Osi would be traded and he said, "I don't know, but I hope not." The expression on his face made me think he thinks osi is good as gone, but we shall see.

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04-25-2010, 11:47 AM
  #102
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Tynes seems like such a nice guy. He just isnt the worlds best kicker.

BTW, the punter was taken in the 7th round as an insurance policy in case Feagles decided to retire.

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04-25-2010, 11:53 AM
  #103
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So, outside the JPP pick, I love this draft job. Reese did a phenomenal job. Joseph and Jones were HUGE value picks for Reese. Both should've went higher than they did.

Love the Dodge pick, since it looks like Feagles is going to retire. Dodge is a solid directional kicker. Doesn't have HUGE range, but adequate enough. Dodge is the best punter in the draft and he's a great late round pick.

Special teams was really addressed in this draft. Jones might have been one of the best special teams players available in any round. He's an absolute buzzsaw out there and can return punts with the best of them. Dodge is going to be our punter for the next 10 years, hopefully. He has a good leg and GREAT directional punting skills. He's also huge for a punter.

I like the Petrus pick. I look at him as a depth player with the potential to start. He's an extremely athletic guard, but he's a littler guy for an offensive line player, being that he started out as a walk on tight end. He's very fast and agile, though, so he has a lot of potential.

Dillard is fine as a MLB choice in the 4th. The Giants were simply not sold on any MLB in this draft:

"Obviously [Rolando] McClain and then there may have been a big drop off. I don't want to say it was weak but for us we didn't have a lot of guys at high value there."


The whining is just hysterical. Wahhhh wahhh they didn't reach for a lb wahhhhh wahhhh they drafted a safety and a DT wahhhhh wahhhhhhhhhhhhh. Clearly our scouts were NOT fans of any of them and for good reason. It was not a good year at all for MLB prospects. TONS of OLB depth, but very little substance for the inner guys.

This draft is ALL upside. Every player has great upside for their position and every player has the potential to do nothing at all in the NFL. Gotta love Reese taking risky guys each pick for the most part (only safe guy really is Dodge).

Great draft, overall. Puts the JPP pick in perspective. Home runs on each of these picks. Reese has some major balls.

In Reese we trust.
I hope you are right, but I am not crazy about this draft. Would have rather had Dan Williams in the first and a linebacker in the 2nd, preferably Sean Lee. With him going to Dallas, I have a bad feeling that pick is going to haunt us like Sather taking Jessiman over Parise is haunting us as Rangers fans. Part of me thinks Sather was running the Giants war room.

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04-25-2010, 11:54 AM
  #104
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Overall, I like what the Giants did with picks 2 through 5...a lot of big, physical players. The success of JPP is probably what determines if this is draft on the level of 2007, or just a run-of-the-mill one.

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04-25-2010, 11:55 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
Tynes seems like such a nice guy. He just isnt the worlds best kicker.

BTW, the punter was taken in the 7th round as an insurance policy in case Feagles decided to retire.
Well, he was doing an appearance in Jersey. I was on my way and my friend was there and said he was about to leave. Friend went over to Tynes and asked if he could hang out for a few minutes as I was on my way. He did, which I thought was really cool. I have a picture from SB XLII which I am trying to get signed by the whole 2007 team, Tynes was the 21st (I think)guy I got on it.

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04-25-2010, 11:56 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
I hope you are right, but I am not crazy about this draft. Would have rather had Dan Williams in the first and a linebacker in the 2nd, preferably Sean Lee. With him going to Dallas, I have a bad feeling that pick is going to haunt us like Sather taking Jessiman over Parise is haunting us as Rangers fans. Part of me thinks Sather was running the Giants war room.
The last time Dallas took an LB that Giant fans wanted was when they took Bobby Carpenter. Let's hope for similar results.

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04-25-2010, 12:09 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
I hope you are right, but I am not crazy about this draft. Would have rather had Dan Williams in the first and a linebacker in the 2nd, preferably Sean Lee. With him going to Dallas, I have a bad feeling that pick is going to haunt us like Sather taking Jessiman over Parise is haunting us as Rangers fans. Part of me thinks Sather was running the Giants war room.
You CANNOT justify taking Lee at 46. You just can't. It would be a huge reach. He's going to be a starting MLB but he will not be anything special at all. More just adequate.

Lee like Parise? No. More like Lee like AP. A solid but unspectacular player.

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04-25-2010, 12:12 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Kiper gave both the Jets and Giants a B.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft...perDraftGrades

Scouts, Inc. did some crazy thing where they created a formula to evaluate the draft, based on value per pick or something and taking into account trades before the draft. Jets were 4th, Giants 30th.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft...ory?id=5133008
Doesn't mean much considering the Giants and Patriots are probably the two best drafting teams in the league. The Giants draft this year was all based off of immense upside. Reese's picks in the first three rounds were all home run swings. Kiper is more accurate here than Scouts, Inc.

Kiper tends to be a bit of a Giants basher (as is all of the ESPN staff), and his grade is about what I'd give them.

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04-25-2010, 12:21 PM
  #109
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Last time I questioned a Giants draft pick was Kiwanuka. That ended up O.K.

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04-25-2010, 12:30 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
Last time I questioned a Giants draft pick was Kiwanuka. That ended up O.K.
I have a LOT of hope for JPP, but not a lot of faith. This kid is either going to be the best pass rusher in a LOOOOOONG time or out of the league in 5 years.

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04-25-2010, 12:57 PM
  #111
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I have a LOT of hope for JPP, but not a lot of faith. This kid is either going to be the best pass rusher in a LOOOOOONG time or out of the league in 5 years.
And we're in a position to take that risk. The safe thing to do would have been to keep Rivers. Safe didn't win us a Super Bowl.

It was the same thing with the Kreider pick. A lot of people hated it because of his bust potential, and the safe thing to do would have been to take a guy like Josefsen.

There's no risk-free way to success. You have to take certain educated risks. No guts, no glory.

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04-25-2010, 01:02 PM
  #112
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For ppl bashing the JPP pick

A) no chance ANY GM passes on the #6 guy on his board @ #15 besides @ QB

B) there's a very good chance we won't keep osi or kiwi after this year. DE is actually a need
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04-25-2010, 01:43 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by hlundqvist30 View Post
And we're in a position to take that risk. The safe thing to do would have been to keep Rivers. Safe didn't win us a Super Bowl.

It was the same thing with the Kreider pick. A lot of people hated it because of his bust potential, and the safe thing to do would have been to take a guy like Josefsen.

There's no risk-free way to success. You have to take certain educated risks. No guts, no glory.
That's the thing, we're not. The defense was atrocious last year, and in the first four rounds they took maybe one guy (Joseph) who can be counted on to contribute right away.

Comparing NFL to NHL picks is a pointless exercise because of how rare it is for an NHL draft pick to step into the starting lineup without playing at least a little minor league hockey. NFL players, on the other hand, have to justify their draft spot and contract a lot sooner.

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04-25-2010, 06:18 PM
  #114
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So we just got back from the open house at the new stadium today. Here are some pictures of the new stadium and some demolition of the old stadium:

That should say P$L license:


The old and the new:


So sad:


More demolition:


View from a concourse:


Views from my father-in-law's seats:




Why take a picture of the urinals? Because I've never seen a urinal that looked like the yip yip monsters from Sesame Street:


And speaking of the Muppets, has anyone else noticed that Eli Manning bears a striking resemblance to Beaker?

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04-25-2010, 06:38 PM
  #115
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Football is a TV sport, as opposed to hockey IMO. Ive never gone to a Giants game live and frankly, in order to be close enough to see anything I'd have to part with my entire week's paycheck.

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04-25-2010, 06:42 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
Football is a TV sport, as opposed to hockey IMO. Ive never gone to a Giants game live and frankly, in order to be close enough to see anything I'd have to part with my entire week's paycheck.
I totally disagree. The biggest problem I have with it being on TV is that it's zoomed in so far you can't see the play develop (same problem I have with hockey on TV actually). You can't see the receivers run their routes and who is open and isn't open until you get a replay. I love my father-in-law's seats because you can see all of that happen as it happens.

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04-25-2010, 06:44 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by EventHorizon View Post
I totally disagree. The biggest problem I have with it being on TV is that it's zoomed in so far you can't see the play develop (same problem I have with hockey on TV actually). You can't see the receivers run their routes and who is open and isn't open until you get a replay. I love my father-in-law's seats because you can see all of that happen as it happens.
Well that is one thing, but those are mostly the deep routs. It is a good point to bring up, but Ive never gotten he feeling there is the same vibe of intensity from a huge stadium where folks are a half mile from the action than at a rink.

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04-25-2010, 06:51 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by clmetsfan View Post
That's the thing, we're not. The defense was atrocious last year, and in the first four rounds they took maybe one guy (Joseph) who can be counted on to contribute right away.

Comparing NFL to NHL picks is a pointless exercise because of how rare it is for an NHL draft pick to step into the starting lineup without playing at least a little minor league hockey. NFL players, on the other hand, have to justify their draft spot and contract a lot sooner.
Cook will contribute right away on special teams as will Dillard, likely.

Our defense was extremely injured last year. You keep overlooking that. Nearly every impact player had a serious injury at some point during the year. You keep on blabbering about how bad it was, yet you refuse to look at one of the main reasons WHY it was so bad.

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04-25-2010, 06:54 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
Well that is one thing, but those are mostly the deep routs. It is a good point to bring up, but Ive never gotten he feeling there is the same vibe of intensity from a huge stadium where folks are a half mile from the action than at a rink.
The atmosphere is there. I know it's surprising but there's nothing like the crowd noise during a 3rd and short or a goal line stand. Sure, hockey's better, but football isn't that far off.

The only problem I have with the new seats is that they're not covered. His old seats were under the press box, safe from the rain.

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04-25-2010, 06:55 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by EventHorizon View Post
I totally disagree. The biggest problem I have with it being on TV is that it's zoomed in so far you can't see the play develop (same problem I have with hockey on TV actually). You can't see the receivers run their routes and who is open and isn't open until you get a replay. I love my father-in-law's seats because you can see all of that happen as it happens.
That's certainly true, but there are also so many things to watch on each play that I think you definitely lose quite a bit without the benefit of replays. Of all sports, I think the disparity between live and TV versions is smallest with football. And since it's also the most expensive to attend, I've never been too upset about not being able to go to many Giants games.

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04-25-2010, 07:11 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Cook will contribute right away on special teams as will Dillard, likely.

Our defense was extremely injured last year. You keep overlooking that. Nearly every impact player had a serious injury at some point during the year. You keep on blabbering about how bad it was, yet you refuse to look at one of the main reasons WHY it was so bad.
Cook? Who's Cook?

And I'm really not too thrilled about the idea of drafting guys to contribute on special teams. Special teams weren't the problem, giving up 30 points a game was the problem. We've got guys who can play ST (DeOssie, Kehl, Wilkinson, Blackburn, Goff). But what we don't have is three linebackers worthy of starting.

So sorry to "blabber" about how bad the defense was (seriously, is it even possibly for you to disagree with someone civilly?) but it was due to a lot more than injuries.

I do like that they addressed the defensive line because they weren't able to get any QB pressure last year when they rushed four, and not much more when they sent blitzers. I just wish that they addressed the most pressing need (LB) rather than building up absurd depth at safety and on the line.

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04-25-2010, 08:08 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by clmetsfan View Post
Cook? Who's Cook?

And I'm really not too thrilled about the idea of drafting guys to contribute on special teams. Special teams weren't the problem, giving up 30 points a game was the problem. We've got guys who can play ST (DeOssie, Kehl, Wilkinson, Blackburn, Goff). But what we don't have is three linebackers worthy of starting.

So sorry to "blabber" about how bad the defense was (seriously, is it even possibly for you to disagree with someone civilly?) but it was due to a lot more than injuries.

I do like that they addressed the defensive line because they weren't able to get any QB pressure last year when they rushed four, and not much more when they sent blitzers. I just wish that they addressed the most pressing need (LB) rather than building up absurd depth at safety and on the line.
Freudian slip on Cook. Meant Jones. Was thinking about Chris Cook, for some reason.

I would disagree with you "civilly" if your opinion wasn't so far off base and from reality. Your meaningless bashing of the Joseph and Jones picks are ridiculous at best. They were huge value picks.

Absurd depth at safety? Johnson is likely going to be cut. We will have 4 main safeties: Jones, Grant, Rolle and Phillips. Phillips might not even play this year. Again -- do you really want another CC Brown style year this year? Grant is no longer a starting safety. Jones was an absolute must and was a huge get in the 3rd round.

Dillard is every bit as good as Lee and the other LBs available after RoMac. Our own head of scouting called the LB depth poor. You're being ridiculous since you want to see them reach for a LB. You just don't do that. You can ***** and moan all you want, but they got great value in all their picks.

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04-25-2010, 08:17 PM
  #123
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Thanks for the pics EventHorizon! The new stadium looks fantastic. And yes, it is sad seeing the old stadium being torn down.

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04-25-2010, 08:19 PM
  #124
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Off-base from reality? So in your version of reality is our linebacking corps not ridiculously thin? We clearly disagree about Sean Lee, which is fine, but I can cite plenty of people with far more impressive credentials than you who do not think that Dallas reached with that pick.

I don't dispute that we got value, but they didn't address pressing needs. DE was not a need, and safety was not a need. I'm not sure why you seem convinced that Deon Grant suddenly can't start after 144 straight starts; he's good insurance in case Phillips can't play right away. Johnson might be cut, and so might Brown, but both are adequate bench players; Brown in particular is very good against the run, he just got exposed last year when asked to be an every down safety on a team that couldn't pressure the quarterback. Personally I'd like to keep him. That would give us 5 safeties if Phillips is healthy. That's absurd depth.

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04-25-2010, 08:52 PM
  #125
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Off-base from reality? So in your version of reality is our linebacking corps not ridiculously thin? We clearly disagree about Sean Lee, which is fine, but I can cite plenty of people with far more impressive credentials than you who do not think that Dallas reached with that pick.

I don't dispute that we got value, but they didn't address pressing needs. DE was not a need, and safety was not a need. I'm not sure why you seem convinced that Deon Grant suddenly can't start after 144 straight starts; he's good insurance in case Phillips can't play right away. Johnson might be cut, and so might Brown, but both are adequate bench players; Brown in particular is very good against the run, he just got exposed last year when asked to be an every down safety on a team that couldn't pressure the quarterback. Personally I'd like to keep him. That would give us 5 safeties if Phillips is healthy. That's absurd depth.
So you're saying that we should pass up on talent that could help us for the next 5-10 years because of what is needed this year, only? It's not like we're the Detroit Lions and investing all of our draft picks into WR. It's not like we're flooded with young DT's and safeties. It would be an absolutely horrible philosophy to force trades and make reach picks for the sole purposes of addressing positions.

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