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If Lemieux and Gretzky had played in the same amount of games... Perfect analysis!

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Old
02-25-2005, 03:25 PM
  #51
revolverjgw
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''IMO he was at his best in 88 and 89 playing with Coffey and a few glorified 3rd liners''
He wasn't playing with imcompetent offensive players, contrary to semi-popular belief. Rob Brown put up a point per game immediately after leaving Pittsburgh. He tailed off quickly, but definitely not because he wasn't offensively skilled. He happened to compliment Mario very well. Dan Quinn and John Cullen were solid offensive contributers with or without Mario. 1250 points between them in just over 1400 games. 3rd liners don't put up those kind of points, do they? Zalapski was a fine offensive D-man that put up 60 points WITHOUT MARIO, and Coffey is the second best offensive D-man of all time. Mario doesn't get 199 points without a 110 point D-man setting him up, that's for sure. Coffey was integral, everybody else was just a bonus.

The ''Mario was playing with scrubs'' myth is just that, a myth. I'm not taking anything away from him, that was as good a season as Wayne ever had... but Wayne had like 10 seasons like that in a row. :-p

Quote:
you must be counting playoff goals as Bossy finished with 573 regular season goals.
Nah, I was doing the ''what if they were healthy'' calculation, like Kovalev did for Mario up there. If given the same concessions as Mario was given in that first post, Bossy would have had over 600 goals and would be VERY close to Mario all-time in a ''best-possible-case'' scenario.

We can dream. :-(

Another point- while Mario is still playing in the deadpuck era, he's just BARELY playing... 10 games last year, give me a break. Wayne played 164 straight at one point during the deadpuck era, and 70 the next year. Now THAT sure put a dent in his PPG.


Last edited by revolverjgw: 02-25-2005 at 03:31 PM.
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Old
02-25-2005, 04:43 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by revolverjgw
He wasn't playing with imcompetent offensive players, contrary to semi-popular belief. Rob Brown put up a point per game immediately after leaving Pittsburgh. He tailed off quickly, but definitely not because he wasn't offensively skilled. He happened to compliment Mario very well. Dan Quinn and John Cullen were solid offensive contributers with or without Mario. 1250 points between them in just over 1400 games. 3rd liners don't put up those kind of points, do they? Zalapski was a fine offensive D-man that put up 60 points WITHOUT MARIO, and Coffey is the second best offensive D-man of all time. Mario doesn't get 199 points without a 110 point D-man setting him up, that's for sure. Coffey was integral, everybody else was just a bonus.

The ''Mario was playing with scrubs'' myth is just that, a myth. I'm not taking anything away from him, that was as good a season as Wayne ever had... but Wayne had like 10 seasons like that in a row. :-p
I'm going to have to disagree. Cullen and Zalapski turned into a very good players but at the time were just a rookies. Also Quinn and Brown had some skill but after leaving the Penguins bounced around from team to team and barely stayed in the NHL during expansion. Were they complete garbage? No. They looked like all stars compared to what Lemieux had to work with before that but they do pale in comparison to the greatest offensive dynamo ever assembled.

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02-26-2005, 04:04 AM
  #53
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Gretzky was the best. Lemieux was second end of discussion.

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02-26-2005, 04:26 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by tom_servo
I had a dream that Lemieux and Gretzky were not only tearing up the NHL, but were also Van Halen-esque guitar virtuosos.
But their names were Bill & Ted right? I had that same dream.

I also had a dream a cheeseburger was eating me!

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02-27-2005, 12:04 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by KOVALEV10
Ok here would be the stats of both Lemieux and Gretzky if they had played every game in every season. Also I've taken out Gretzky's 11th, 14th, 15th and 16th seasons as Lemieux didnt play in those.

Mario Lemieux:

1st year: 47 goals, 62 assists, 109 points
2nd year: 48 goals, 94 assists, 142 points
3rd year: 68 goals, 67 assists, 135 points
4th year: 72 goals, 102 assists, 172 points
5th year: 89 goals, 120 assists, 209 points
6th year: 61 goals, 105 assists, 166 points
7th year: 58 goals, 80 assists, 138 points
8th year: 55 goals, 109 assists, 164 points
9th year: 97 goals, 127 assists, 224 points
10th year: 64 goals, 77 assists, 141 points
12th year: 80 goals, 109 assists, 189 points
13th year: 53 goals, 78 assists, 131 points
17th year, 67 goals, 77 assists, 144 points
18th year: 20 goals, 85 assists, 105 points
19th year: 34 goals, 77 assits, 111 points
20th year: 8 goals, 65 assists, 73 points

Career Totals: 921 goals, 1422 assists, 2353 points

50 or more goal seasons: 11
100 or more assists seasons: 5
100 or more point seasons: 15
200 or more point seasons: 2

Wayne Gretzky:
1st year: 51 goals, 87 assists, 138 points
2nd year: 55 goals, 109 asssists, 164 points
3rd year: 92 goals, 120 assists, 212 points
4th year: 71 goals, 125 assists, 196 points
5th year: 94 goals, 127 assists, 221 points
6th year: 73 goals, 135 assists, 208 points
7th year: 52 goals.163 assists, 215 points
8th year: 62 goals, 122 assists. 184 points
9th year: 50 goals, 136 assists, 186 points
10th year: 55 goals, 116 assists, 171 points
12th year: 42 goals, 124 asssists, 166 points
13th year: 33 goals . 97 assists. 130 points
17th year: 23 goals, 80 assists, 103 points
18th year: 25 goals. 72 assists, 97 points
19th year: 23 goals, 67 assists, 90 points
20th year: 10 goals, 62 assists, 72 points

Career Totals: 811 goals, 1742 assists, 2553 points

50 or more goals seasons: 10
100 or more assists seasons: 10
100 or more point seasons: 13
200 or more point seasons: 4

So if you look at it, Lemieux clearly owns Gretzky in number of career goals, would've had 1 more 50 or more goal season as well as 2 more 100 or more point seasons. Gretzky owns Lemieux in assists as he would've had 5 more 100 or more assists seasons. Lemieux and Gretzky would also have been tied in number of art ross trophies with 8 each. Gretzky would've been third in goal scoring while Lemieux would've been first. Gretzky would still been first in assists and points though. Oh and Lemieux would've had the record for most points and goals in a single season. Gretzky would still have had the record for most assists. Pretty interesting, thoughts?
Better take out Mario's 20th year, as he hasn't ever PLAYED IT! He's only played 15 years, and at a lower level than Gretz ever did, so your whole post is a joke! Gretzky scored more goals in the same number of games as Mario ever played, he has more assists in the same time, and FAR more points, along with a higher PPG average. Mario WAS slightly ahead in the PPG, but since his "comeback" has fallen well behind. Give him another 3 years (to catch up with Wayne in games played) and he will be behind Bobby Orr, too!

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02-27-2005, 12:20 AM
  #56
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... and if Pelle Lindbergh hadn't drove his Porsche into a concrete wall he would have been the best goalie of the modern era ?

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02-27-2005, 02:17 PM
  #57
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I'd like to add another player to this stupid formula. That player would be Dean Morton, one of our AHL refs. Dean only played in 1 NHL game before his knees took their toll on his playing career.
However, in that 1 single game Dean scored a goal. Now if you project that over a career he is far superior to either Gretxky or Lemieux.

Goals per game average

Dean Morton 1GP - 1G -1.000AVG
Mario Lemieux 889GP - 683G- .768AVG
Wayne Gretzky 1487GP - 894G- .601AVG

See, using this "perfect analysis", I have just proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that Dean Morton was a better goal scorer than both Mario and Wayne.
Is this absolutely obsured and stupid? Yes of course, just like trying to even the length of careers of the other 2 players.

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