*Chris Doyle traded from P.E.I. Rocket to Victoriaville Tigres (12/28/09)
**Randy McNaught traded from Cilliwack Bruins to Saskatoon Blades (10/6/2009)
In what should come as a shock to no one around these parts, sources have confirmed to me that junior defensemen Cody Goloubef and Brendan Smith will forgo their final season of eligibility at the University of Wisconsin and turn pro.
I just read the past couple of pages of you guys trashing McDonagh for possibly staying for his senior season at Wisconsin. Has it ever occurred to you that the Rangers have not made an attempt to sign him this offseason? Think about that one and get back to me.
I just read the past couple of pages of you guys trashing McDonagh for possibly staying for his senior season at Wisconsin. Has it ever occurred to you that the Rangers have not made an attempt to sign him this offseason? Think about that one and get back to me.
Is that you Ryan?
There were some reports that the Rangers absolutely want him to turn pro, so I guess they already have or will offer him a contract. I don't like to judge a guy before we even know for sure he stays there and we know all the facts. Staying another year in University is not a crime. I do think that the AHL would be best for his development though.
Is that you Ryan?
There were some reports that the Rangers absolutely want him to turn pro, so I guess they already have or will offer him a contract. I don't like to judge a guy before we even know for sure he stays there and we know all the facts. Staying another year in University is not a crime. I do think that the AHL would be best for his development though.
Well don't believe everything you hear.
As for the AHL, if you're going to be in the AHL, you might as well stay in school. I think if Ryan knew for a fact that he had a spot in the NHL full time and he was going to make that rookie max then he would do it, but at this time with no guarantee why sit in the minors and hump buses for 60k a year while you can live the dream and finish your degree as the captain of Wisconsin?
As for the AHL, if you're going to be in the AHL, you might as well stay in school. I think if Ryan knew for a fact that he had a spot in the NHL full time and he was going to make that rookie max then he would do it, but at this time with no guarantee why sit in the minors and hump buses for 60k a year while you can live the dream and finish your degree as the captain of Wisconsin?
Because playing 70 games in the AHL, against grown men rather than 50 games against 18-20 year old kids, would be better for his professional development? While also getting paid a "pittance" of 60k?
If he wants to stay in Wisconsin and captain his team his senior season, that's fine. If that's his dream, I'm not going to question it. But to disregard the benefits of turning pro, even at the AHL level, is a bit silly.
As for the AHL, if you're going to be in the AHL, you might as well stay in school. I think if Ryan knew for a fact that he had a spot in the NHL full time and he was going to make that rookie max then he would do it, but at this time with no guarantee why sit in the minors and hump buses for 60k a year while you can live the dream and finish your degree as the captain of Wisconsin?
Wait a minute. The season wasn't barely over before Andy Baggot was writing McD could possibly stay in school another season because he wanted to follow Geoffrion's path. Someone told Baggot that. Before he even had the chance to speak to the Rangers,signals are the player is staying in school. The Rangers believe the player can compete for a NHL job. No guarantees. They want to sign him. Detroit and Columbus didn't guarantee their Wisconsin players NHL jobs for next season.
Because playing 70 games in the AHL, against grown men rather than 50 games against 18-20 year old kids, would be better for his professional development? While also getting paid a "pittance" of 60k?
If he wants to stay in Wisconsin and captain his team his senior season, that's fine. If that's his dream, I'm not going to question it. But to disregard the benefits of turning pro, even at the AHL level, is a bit silly.
I respectfully disagree. I don't see the AHL as that much of a significant difference in development. Wisconsin is the most NHL ran style college out there. Those extra 20 games being played are just 20 more days he could be practicing.
"However, a recent study by Jack Blatherwick revealed the startling results… in an average 60 min hockey game, players averaged 9.6 min of ice time. The average player touched the puck 7 times over 9 shifts. Take into consideration that the top end players touched the puck more and had a few more shifts, but hardly enough repetitions to develop their skills into a reactive response. However, playing of games has its place in development, as it is a stage to test and compare your skill and physical development. Remember though, without perfect technique that can only be developed through proper repetitive training, you will only be repeating bad habits. Development prior to games is the key to success."
Obviously he would play more than 9.6 minutes but you get the point. The total games thing is a bs argument and I don't agree with it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy
Wait a minute. The season wasn't barely over before Andy Baggot was writing McD could possibly stay in school another season because he wanted to follow Geoffrion's path. Someone told Baggot that. Before he even had the chance to speak to the Rangers,signals are the player is staying in school. The Rangers believe the player can compete for a NHL job. No guarantees. They want to sign him. Detroit and Columbus didn't guarantee their Wisconsin players NHL jobs for next season.
You think the Rangers weren't talking to McDonagh during the season? Also...let me repeat, how do you know that the Rangers want to sign him? Did the Rangers call and tell you this?
^^^ To turn this around, how do you know they don't want him to turn pro? Has someone talked to you and given you direct info? If so, then say it. If not, then shut the **** up and get the hell out. If you don't have the balls to do more than insinuate then don't say anything
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Schwartz
Well don't believe everything you hear.
Don't do this. If you have information or a source, then say it. Don't ***** foot around and act like you know something if you're not willing to actually man up and say it.
Quote:
As for the AHL, if you're going to be in the AHL, you might as well stay in school. I think if Ryan knew for a fact that he had a spot in the NHL full time and he was going to make that rookie max then he would do it, but at this time with no guarantee why sit in the minors and hump buses for 60k a year while you can live the dream and finish your degree as the captain of Wisconsin?
Because the AHL will prepare you for your pro career and college won't. If he needs to work on things to make it in the NHL, chances are another year in college isn't going to help that.
I can only look at it from the perspective that I believe I would have in that situation. If I was a well regarded NHL prospect and the choice was "go the NHL, maybe have to play in the AHL for awhile" or "stay another year in college" I'd make the jump to turn pro. Why? Because a pro hockey career is a much bigger thing than college, especially if I had already spent 3 years in school and was considered one of the best players at my position in college hockey.
Playing pro > being captain of a college team. But then again, I have the benefit of years out of college to realize that college was fun, but not the end all of life.
Don't do this. If you have information or a source, then say it. Don't ***** foot around and act like you know something if you're not willing to actually man up and say it.
Because the AHL will prepare you for your pro career and college won't. If he needs to work on things to make it in the NHL, chances are another year in college isn't going to help that.
I can only look at it from the perspective that I believe I would have in that situation. If I was a well regarded NHL prospect and the choice was "go the NHL, maybe have to play in the AHL for awhile" or "stay another year in college" I'd make the jump to turn pro. Why? Because a pro hockey career is a much bigger thing than college, especially if I had already spent 3 years in school and was considered one of the best players at my position in college hockey.
Playing pro > being captain of a college team. But then again, I have the benefit of years out of college to realize that college was fun, but not the end all of life.
College won't prepare you for a pro career? Really? That's a pretty ignorant statement.
Obviously a pro career is a much bigger deal than a college career. No one is debating that. Ryan can have both. He can finish his degree at Wisconsin, and play for the Rangers the next season. Not sure why everyone is so hell bent on him playing minor league hockey.
and yes I'm pissy. I hate it when people act like they have some kind of information but won't actually say "yes I talked to some people and this is what they have to say"
It's easy to admit most here want him to turn pro because they think he could help the Rangers. It's not that people are hot to see him play in the AHL, they want to see if he can crack the NHL lineup. It is selfish in that regard.
On the other hand, turning pro is the next step in his career and you honestly will have a hard time convincing me that another year in college will develop his skills beyond what they are now. He's bigger than most guys in college, he'll be older than most guys in college, he is basically the top level of competition in college right now. How will that help him make the huge jump to the NHL? That's why people think he should turn pro...they think he's ready, and if he's ready, then waiting to do it is more a wasted year than anything else.
If he's not ready then he's not, I guess. To be honest I just worry that some decisions can slow down a guys development rather than help it.
and yes I'm pissy. I hate it when people act like they have some kind of information but won't actually say "yes I talked to some people and this is what they have to say"
It's easy to admit most here want him to turn pro because they think he could help the Rangers. It's not that people are hot to see him play in the AHL, they want to see if he can crack the NHL lineup. It is selfish in that regard.
On the other hand, turning pro is the next step in his career and you honestly will have a hard time convincing me that another year in college will develop his skills beyond what they are now. He's bigger than most guys in college, he'll be older than most guys in college, he is basically the top level of competition in college right now. How will that help him make the huge jump to the NHL? That's why people think he should turn pro...they think he's ready, and if he's ready, then waiting to do it is more a wasted year than anything else.
If he's not ready then he's not, I guess. To be honest I just worry that some decisions can slow down a guys development rather than help it.
I couldn't tell that you are pissy.
I didn't act like I had any info at all. I simply said, people are attacking the player and throwing him under the bus for not signing with the Rangers and none of you have even considered the possibility that there isn't even an offer out there to be signed.
I understand that you are Rangers fans and are excited to see what he can do, but some of the comments I've read here are simply ridiculous. Like saying you lost the Gomez trade because McDonagh has decided to stay in college for 4 years? That is the stupidest thing I've ever heard.
In an era where we crucify players for turning pro early, making mistakes in other off field/ice situations, etc...people are upset that a kid is willing to finish his college degree to help himself after his hockey career is over. And that is crazy to me. Let the kid live his life.
I respectfully disagree. I don't see the AHL as that much of a significant difference in development. Wisconsin is the most NHL ran style college out there. Those extra 20 games being played are just 20 more days he could be practicing.
"However, a recent study by Jack Blatherwick revealed the startling results… in an average 60 min hockey game, players averaged 9.6 min of ice time. The average player touched the puck 7 times over 9 shifts. Take into consideration that the top end players touched the puck more and had a few more shifts, but hardly enough repetitions to develop their skills into a reactive response. However, playing of games has its place in development, as it is a stage to test and compare your skill and physical development. Remember though, without perfect technique that can only be developed through proper repetitive training, you will only be repeating bad habits. Development prior to games is the key to success."
Obviously he would play more than 9.6 minutes but you get the point. The total games thing is a bs argument and I don't agree with it.
How is it a BS argument? How frequently do we see college players going straight to the pros hit a wall around mid-season? Playing 82 games against grown men is a tough task when a player is accustomed to playing 50 games against teens. The extra games played against superior competition in the AHL will certainly serve to better prepare a player for the daily rigors of the NHL. I'm not exactly sure how anyone could dispute this.
I don't think McDonagh has anything left to prove at the NCAA level, and he'd be well served to begin learning the professional game.
I didn't act like I had any info at all. I simply said, people are attacking the player and throwing him under the bus for not signing with the Rangers and none of you have even considered the possibility that there isn't even an offer out there to be signed.
Because with the information we have available, it's been said they want him to turn pro. I believe it was from beat writers for the Rangers, so it's really about as good as you can get unless it's right from the horses mouth. If that's not true, then hey it's not true, but we're dealing with the information available.
Quote:
I understand that you are Rangers fans and are excited to see what he can do, but some of the comments I've read here are simply ridiculous. Like saying you lost the Gomez trade because McDonagh has decided to stay in college for 4 years? That is the stupidest thing I've ever heard.
I agree that's dumb. I think if he has the ability to turn pro and is developmentally ready, then he should do it, but it's not going to totally kill him or his career to wait another year. Like I said, I think it's better for his career to turn pro if he's ready, skillwise, but it's not the end of the world either.
Quote:
In an era where we crucify players for turning pro early, making mistakes in other off field/ice situations, etc...people are upset that a kid is willing to finish his college degree to help himself after his hockey career is over. And that is crazy to me. Let the kid live his life.
If this was a situation where a guy was turning pro after his freshman year and he didn't exactly prove himself to be a good college player, then I'd criticize him for turning pro too early. But he'll be a senior and has proven to be one of the best defensemen in college. It's probably not too early now.
How is it a BS argument? How frequently do we see college players going straight to the pros hit a wall around mid-season? Playing 82 games against grown men is a tough task when a player is accustomed to playing 50 games against teens. The extra games played against superior competition in the AHL will certainly serve to better prepare a player for the daily rigors of the NHL. I'm not exactly sure how anyone could dispute this.
I don't think McDonagh has anything left to prove at the NCAA level, and he'd be well served to begin learning the professional game.
I'm sure it really killed Blake Geoffrions development to spend his senior season with Wisconsin, go to the Frozen Four, and win a Hobey Baker.
By the way, keep in mind that I'm as surprised as everyone else. It's been a blessing to have McD for three seasons. I didn't expect him to even consider a senior season. I'm simply saying, I can see why he would want to finish out his four years. If he turns pro then good for him, I wish him the best. If not, I'll do cartwheels.
Either way, the kid is still going to be a solid NHL player. This one season isn't going to make or break him. If you think that you are flat out wrong.
I'm sure it really killed Blake Geoffrions development to spend his senior season with Wisconsin, go to the Frozen Four, and win a Hobey Baker.
By the way, keep in mind that I'm as surprised as everyone else. It's been a blessing to have McD for three seasons. I didn't expect him to even consider a senior season. I'm simply saying, I can see why he would want to finish out his four years. If he turns pro then good for him, I wish him the best. If not, I'll do cartwheels.
Either way, the kid is still going to be a solid NHL player. This one season isn't going to make or break him. If you think that you are flat out wrong.
Did it kill Blake Geoffrion's development? Of course not. Did it help his development? Debatable.
And I never said it was going to make or break McDonagh. Nothing of the sort. But I don't think it's going to be helpful...a wasted year in terms of development.
The problem is that most of us are viewing this from a fan perspective, and not from Ryan's perspective. If I was the captain of a top NCAA hockey team, I'd probably want to stay in school too. Add to that the fact that he just lost a National Championship, which I'm sure he wants another crack at, regardless of how good or bad we think the team will be next season, I can't blame him for wanting to stay.
The kid has been groomed for professional hockey for god knows how long. He deserves to have a "domination" year if he wants it. Not to mention, having partied in Madison a few times myself, I can see why he would want to stay. I'm sure he has a ridiculous social life that'll be tough to give up.
I understand Ryan's decision. Being a captain of one of the top ice hockey programs is a big deal.
We just had a kid in Bollig leave SLU to go pro, and chances are he wont even make it in the NHL. Bad decision to give up on a payed degree.
But McDonagh is going to be an NHL defenseman. The question is only when that is. When you know you're going to be making millions in pro, I think i'm accepting a year in Hartford.
The problem is that most of us are viewing this from a fan perspective, and not from Ryan's perspective. If I was the captain of a top NCAA hockey team, I'd probably want to stay in school too. Add to that the fact that he just lost a National Championship, which I'm sure he wants another crack at, regardless of how good or bad we think the team will be next season, I can't blame him for wanting to stay.
The kid has been groomed for professional hockey for god knows how long. He deserves to have a "domination" year if he wants it. Not to mention, having partied in Madison a few times myself, I can see why he would want to stay. I'm sure he has a ridiculous social life that'll be tough to give up.
But it's false to necessarily assume that the two are mutually exclusive. I would like to see him leave school because I'm a Rangers fan and therefore want him in the NHL sooner and to have a longer career. If I were his father or agent, I would like to see him leave school sooner because I care about the kid and his career and I would therefore want him in the NHL sooner and to have a longer career.
Speaking as a 39 year old, the ol' body only gives you so many good years. What a stupid thing to do to stay an extra year in college if it could delay your career even one year. You're wasting what could be 1/15 or 1/10 or even 1/5 (if you suffer a Kloucek like injury) of your total time in the NHL. You can always finish the degree over the summers (especially since it's only one year) or after your career is over. And I promise you the partying as a professional athlete playing for the NY Rangers would be at least as good as that in Madison - just take a look at the "Boyle and MDZ bro-ing out thread" and the " MDZ dating some model" thread, etc.
EDIT: all of this assumes that the Rangers' scouts are convinced that leaving is best for his development. (Which is the implication we've seen from the reports we've read.) If they think another year at Wisconsin would be best, then obviously do that.
Last edited by BrooklynRangersFan: 04-28-2010 at 10:06 AM.
But it's false to necessarily assume that the two are mutually exclusive. I would like to see him leave school because I'm a Rangers fan and therefore want him in the NHL sooner and to have a longer career. If I were his father or agent, I would like to see him leave school sooner because I care about the kid and his career and I would therefore want him in the NHL sooner and to have a longer career.
Speaking as a 39 year old, the ol' body only gives you so many good years. What a stupid thing to do to stay an extra year in college if it could delay your career even one year. You're wasting what could be 1/15 or 1/10 or even 1/5 (if you suffer a Kloucek like injury) of your total time in the NHL. You can always finish the degree over the summers (especially since it's only one year) or after your career is over. And I promise you the partying as a professional athlete playing for the NY Rangers would be at least as good as that in Madison - just take a look at the "Boyle and MDZ bro-ing out thread" and the " MDZ dating some model" thread, etc.
Who's to say he can't just as easily be injured in the AHL or NHL? I'd even go as far as to say it's more likely he'd be injured playing professionally. I don't think that should be a decision maker at all.
His father and agent can want him to do any number of things, but that doesn't mean Ryan wants to do it. He may feel that getting his degree and finishing his college career is the right path for him, and that could be due to any number of reasons.
As fans, we assume to know exactly what the right path is for a players development, but we also have an underlying desire to get them NHL ready asap. He probably knows where he is in his development better than we do.
But you're also assuming that whatever decision he makes is completely the correct one and for correct reasons. People make the wrong decisions all the time and for bad reasons.
Though in this case I don't think there's exactly a "wrong" decision
Who's to say he can't just as easily be injured in the AHL or NHL? I'd even go as far as to say it's more likely he'd be injured playing professionally. I don't think that should be a decision maker at all.
That's the point. Get there. Get a contract. Get insurance. I wasn't even referring to the fact that he might get hurt in school, which is a legitimate worry too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw
His father and agent can want him to do any number of things, but that doesn't mean Ryan wants to do it. He may feel that getting his degree and finishing his college career is the right path for him, and that could be due to any number of reasons.
Okay, but you're talking about potentially millions of dollars here. If a 21 year old (is he even 21 yet?) kid wants to stay because of "unfinished business" (which he ain't gonna finish next year with the decimated squad at UW) or because he's enjoying partying, or even that he wants to get his degree (which I wholeheartedly support but can be done at any point down the line, especially with only two semesters left), then his parents/advisors need to step in and advise him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw
As fans, we assume to know exactly what the right path is for a players development, but we also have an underlying desire to get them NHL ready asap. He probably knows where he is in his development better than we do.
I highly doubt that. This isn't the difference between going to college and going to juniors. This is a kid who's already bigger and stronger than everyone else, who was one win away from the national championship, who's only got one year left in college and who's parent team (apparently) thinks he's ready to challenge for a spot in the pros.
If I'm wrong and the Rangers think he could use another year of seasoning, then that's fine. But if the reports that RB has quoted are to be believed (both about the Rangers wanting him and him staying), I think he's making a big mistake.
I think the "Geoffrion Path" is a very lame excuse. Geoffrion put up underwhelming numbers his freshman-junior season at Wisconsin. He didn't stay because he had a dream to fulfill, he stayed because he clearly wasn't ready for the next step. McDonagh is a totally different situation, where he was already the teams best all around defenseman. If Ryan is the one specifically stating he wants to follow Geoffrion's path, he's just trying to avoid further criticism.
That's the point. Get there. Get a contract. Get insurance. I wasn't even referring to the fact that he might get hurt in school, which is a legitimate worry too.
The contract will be there regardless of whether or not he spends another year at Wisconsin. If he signs now, the next year of college is off the table. If he does get injured, the most he could get is what, 180k (unless he plays in the NHL of course)? That may just not be worth it to him.
Quote:
Okay, but you're talking about potentially millions of dollars here. If a 21 year old (is he even 21 yet?) kid wants to stay because of "unfinished business" (which he ain't gonna finish next year with the decimated squad at UW) or because he's enjoying partying, or even that he wants to get his degree (which I wholeheartedly support but can be done at any point down the line, especially with only two semesters left), then his parents/advisors need to step in and advise him.
But again, why is it about the money immediately? That money isn't going away just because he spends another year in school. Even if the Rangers "pass" on giving him the deal next spring, do you really think there won't be other people lining up to sign him a la Blake Wheeler?
What is there to advise? He wants to be in school another year, so he stays another year. Are his parents NHL scouts? Is his agent suddenly not going to see a cut of his contract if he doesn't sign this spring?
Quote:
I highly doubt that. This isn't the difference between going to college and going to juniors. This is a kid who's already bigger and stronger than everyone else, who was one win away from the national championship, who's only got one year left in college and who's parent team (apparently) thinks he's ready to challenge for a spot in the pros.
If I'm wrong and the Rangers think he could use another year of seasoning, then that's fine. But if the reports that RB has quoted are to be believed (both about the Rangers wanting him and him staying), I think he's making a big mistake.
Why do you doubt that? I can't imagine that other people know a kid better than he knows himself. They may think he's NHL ready when he doesn't, but if he feels most comfortable with another year of school, that's his right. Even if he comes back and dominates as a senior, I don't think that's going to set him back in his development.
If the Rangers want him now, they'll probably want him next year. If they pass, he signs with another team. He's a fantastic player and will make the NHL in some capacity. He's not sacrificing his future in the least.
