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05-03-2010, 11:23 AM
  #126
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what about him? what exactly has he done so far? Granted he is still considered a high end prospect. I do not think he is going to be this stud dman most belive he will become. Not even clsoe to that.
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Maybe, maybe not. But he looks like he clearly has the talent to play on a 2nd pairing in the not too distant future. Didn't look out of place at all in the Olympics, too.
Exactly. I never said he'd become a stud. The question was who did Homer draft that looks like he can become a good contributor. Sbisa looks well on his way to becoming something decent, at least.

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05-03-2010, 11:25 AM
  #127
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Exactly. I never said he'd become a stud. The question was who did Homer draft that looks like he can become a good contributor. Sbisa looks well on his way to becoming something decent, at least.
Yeah, losing Sbisa really stings, IMO. As I've always said, we pretty much have to win a cup with Pronger for that trade to be "good." A big part of that is that I think we gave up a 20 min a night guy, who will contribute some at both ends of the ice.

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05-03-2010, 11:29 AM
  #128
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Not that it means as much, but Ducks fans didn't seem very happy with what they saw from Sbisa before being sent to juniors. I was talking a little bit with them during the season, and their sense is that we sent them somewhat of a damaged goods since we left him in the NHL last year...for what that's worth.

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05-03-2010, 11:33 AM
  #129
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Yeah, losing Sbisa really stings, IMO. As I've always said, we pretty much have to win a cup with Pronger for that trade to be "good." A big part of that is that I think we gave up a 20 min a night guy, who will contribute some at both ends of the ice.
Yeah, I've got a good feeling about Sbisa. He looked to be in a bit over his head at times when he was up with the Flyers, but the way he carried himself on the ice with the big boys as an 18 year old showed me something. I'm not going to complain about having Pronger here, but I really didn't like that it was Sbisa that we gave up in that deal.

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05-03-2010, 11:39 AM
  #130
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Not that it means as much, but Ducks fans didn't seem very happy with what they saw from Sbisa before being sent to juniors. I was talking a little bit with them during the season, and their sense is that we sent them somewhat of a damaged goods since we left him in the NHL last year...for what that's worth.
Yeah, well, he only played 8 games...so kind of whatever. I also talked to some who were really excited post-Olympics.

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05-03-2010, 11:59 AM
  #131
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Not that it means as much, but Ducks fans didn't seem very happy with what they saw from Sbisa before being sent to juniors. I was talking a little bit with them during the season, and their sense is that we sent them somewhat of a damaged goods since we left him in the NHL last year...for what that's worth.
Not only that, but he was injured during the time of the trade. Some speculated that the deal could be revoked, but that notion was squashed immediately. He could be another Parent playing with injuries constantly and not saying anything.

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05-03-2010, 12:00 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by CantSeeColors View Post
Yeah, I've got a good feeling about Sbisa. He looked to be in a bit over his head at times when he was up with the Flyers, but the way he carried himself on the ice with the big boys as an 18 year old showed me something. I'm not going to complain about having Pronger here, but I really didn't like that it was Sbisa that we gave up in that deal.
Sbisa will be nothing special. Wouldnt be shocked in the least if he becomes nothing better than a solid bottom paring dman.

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05-03-2010, 12:12 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by NWO View Post
Sbisa will be nothing special. Wouldnt be shocked in the least if he becomes nothing better than a solid bottom paring dman.
Which is pretty valuable...have you not noticed the significant problem teams have had in filling out their defensive roster?

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05-03-2010, 12:25 PM
  #134
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Which is pretty valuable...have you not noticed the significant problem teams have had in filling out their defensive roster?
the way people talk him up and think what he will become, much like parent, it will be a disappointment to many. Teams have had problems because there are not that many quality dman around. Not sure how valuable it is, nice to have but down the line on importance.

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05-03-2010, 12:29 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by NWO View Post
the way people talk him up and think what he will become, much like parent, it will be a disappointment to many. Teams have had problems because there are not that many quality dman around. Not sure how valuable it is, nice to have but down the line on importance.
Yeah, that's why teams give out ABSURD contracts to marginal D with regularity...

Ryan Parent has always been viewed as a no-offense, defensive D. Given how much injuries have hampered him in his development, I think he's meeting expectations pretty much perfectly.

I'm also unclear where you're seeing people talk him into being something more than a solid two-way guy that can play at this level, which is very valuable.

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05-03-2010, 12:44 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Yeah, that's why teams give out ABSURD contracts to marginal D with regularity...

Ryan Parent has always been viewed as a no-offense, defensive D. Given how much injuries have hampered him in his development, I think he's meeting expectations pretty much perfectly.

I'm also unclear where you're seeing people talk him into being something more than a solid two-way guy that can play at this level, which is very valuable.
Well thats the teams fault. More times than not it comes back to bite them in the ass.

The parent comparision was making is many people think/thought he was goign to be top pairing dman. I do not. If he turns out to be a solid #5 guy fine by me. I dont think he is meeting expectations as the team i believe expected more from him.

There have been plenty of post that people have said sbisa will be stud. Correct he can be very valuable if he turns into what you describe.

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05-03-2010, 12:47 PM
  #137
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Just to confirm, you have to be 20 at the start of the season to play in the AHL?

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05-03-2010, 12:47 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by NWO View Post
what about him? what exactly has he done so far? Granted he is still considered a high end prospect. I do not think he is going to be this stud dman most belive he will become. Not even clsoe to that.
What is he still 19? A little to early to judge whether he will or wont be a stud. Hes got the skill set to be a top 4 guy IMO. he can skate, move the puck well and in time I believe will get a physical edge. Maybe it will take a little more time then it would have if he wasnt rushed to the NHL level last season. He had no business being playing at the NHL level at 18 last season. But this all comes down to Holmgrens incompitance with the salary cap because we couldnt sign anyone to help offset the injures we had to start the year last year on the blueline.

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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Not that it means as much, but Ducks fans didn't seem very happy with what they saw from Sbisa before being sent to juniors. I was talking a little bit with them during the season, and their sense is that we sent them somewhat of a damaged goods since we left him in the NHL last year...for what that's worth.

Not sure what Ducks fans were expecting to be honest. He is still a kid learning the pro game. i think they should wait a season or 2 at least before deciding on whether he is going to be a dissapointment.

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05-03-2010, 12:50 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Just to confirm, you have to be 20 at the start of the season to play in the AHL?
you can be younger if you are from europe.
Manchester has Voynov for example who was 18 last year when he started last year.
Of course you can get a PTO from a AHL affiliate if you are under 20 and your junior season is finished.

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05-03-2010, 12:54 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by FireHolmgrenDotCom View Post
you can be younger if you are from europe.
Manchester has Voynov for example who was 18 last year when he started last year.
Of course you can get a PTO from a AHL affiliate if you are under 20 and your junior season is finished.
Yeah, but Sbisa played junior so I think that European thing is waived for him.

He's in a tough spot of being too good for junior, but not good enough for the NHL.

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05-03-2010, 01:03 PM
  #141
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Well thats the teams fault. More times than not it comes back to bite them in the ass.
But directly refutes your belief that it isn't important and "down the line of importance." Solid 3rd pairing D are very important, which is why people pay for any solid D that is out there. The depth of effective D is well below the depth at forward at the moment.

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The parent comparision was making is many people think/thought he was goign to be top pairing dman. I do not. If he turns out to be a solid #5 guy fine by me. I dont think he is meeting expectations as the team i believe expected more from him.
Similar to below, this is a straw man argument. Parent has always been viewed as someone that could complement an offensive D, not carry a pairing himself. He could very well play on your "top pairing" in the future (if he remains healthy) as the guy that stays back and covers for a more offensive D moving forward. (It would actually do wonders for Timonen's game if Parent could stay healthy and get to a consistency level where he could play minutes with Timonen and free him up to go forward some.)

Parent's primary problem is that he keeps getting hurt, which is a huge problem in itself...but not really an issue with how he is or is not playing.

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There have been plenty of post that people have said sbisa will be stud. Correct he can be very valuable if he turns into what you describe.
I actually think that's a pure straw man argument you're constructing. Sure, some people really like him, but I haven't seen too many folks who think he has future Norris winner written on him or anything.

Moreover, it's completely disingenuous to question the pick of Sbisa if you think worst case scenario he's a third pairing D.

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05-03-2010, 01:05 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Yeah, but Sbisa played junior so I think that European thing is waived for him.

He's in a tough spot of being too good for junior, but not good enough for the NHL.
Eh, he's probably "good enough" for the NHL, but Anaheim thought it better for development to have him in the junior for another year. Given some of the slop trotting out on third pairings around the NHL, he's easily in the top 180 D under NHL contract out there.

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05-03-2010, 01:29 PM
  #143
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Yeah, but Sbisa played junior so I think that European thing is waived for him.

He's in a tough spot of being too good for junior, but not good enough for the NHL.
probably should have clarified saying euro players who were drafted in leagues out of europe.

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05-03-2010, 03:02 PM
  #144
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But directly refutes your belief that it isn't important and "down the line of importance." Solid 3rd pairing D are very important, which is why people pay for any solid D that is out there. The depth of effective D is well below the depth at forward at the moment.



Similar to below, this is a straw man argument. Parent has always been viewed as someone that could complement an offensive D, not carry a pairing himself. He could very well play on your "top pairing" in the future (if he remains healthy) as the guy that stays back and covers for a more offensive D moving forward. (It would actually do wonders for Timonen's game if Parent could stay healthy and get to a consistency level where he could play minutes with Timonen and free him up to go forward some.)

Parent's primary problem is that he keeps getting hurt, which is a huge problem in itself...but not really an issue with how he is or is not playing.



I actually think that's a pure straw man argument you're constructing. Sure, some people really like him, but I haven't seen too many folks who think he has future Norris winner written on him or anything.

Moreover, it's completely disingenuous to question the pick of Sbisa if you think worst case scenario he's a third pairing D.
How many teams have what would be considered a solid 3rd pairing? It is down th eline of importance.

Well i dont think parten is good enough to be on a top paring. Then again carle is so who knows. Not a straw argument at all.
I said it wouldnt surprise me if sbisa became a solid 3rd pairing guy. Not every 1st rd pick is a top 6 or top 4 player. So if he has a solid career as a bottom pairing dmn, whats wrong with that? not like he was a top 3 pick. I have seen people just hype him too much, same with parten at one time.

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05-03-2010, 03:10 PM
  #145
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How many teams have what would be considered a solid 3rd pairing? It is down th eline of importance.
How many teams without solid 3rd pairings desperately wish they did have a 3rd pairing?

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Well i dont think parten is good enough to be on a top paring. Then again carle is so who knows. Not a straw argument at all.
I said it wouldnt surprise me if sbisa became a solid 3rd pairing guy. Not every 1st rd pick is a top 6 or top 4 player. So if he has a solid career as a bottom pairing dmn, whats wrong with that? not like he was a top 3 pick. I have seen people just hype him too much, same with parten at one time.
No, your use of this vast army of people that think Parent is something more than it is expected he might be (a defensive D, with no offense) is the straw man argument. Parent can fill that as a role player, but he's never going to have a legit offensive game in the NHL, so he is what he is.

There also isn't this vast army of people pimping Sbisa the way you're suggesting. People liked him, thought he could be a quality defenseman in this league (and there's nothing to really prove that belief wrong yet).

Sure, there are always going to be some fanboys out there...but constructing "failure to meet expectations" arguments based on the fanboys is just as hyperbolic as the fanboys.

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05-03-2010, 03:16 PM
  #146
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Yeah, well, he only played 8 games...so kind of whatever. I also talked to some who were really excited post-Olympics.
Yeah, I was there pre-Olympics.

You figure they thought he couldn't beat out Steve Eminger and Nick Boynton for a regular job, I'd be sour too considering how much Holmgren sauced him up.

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05-03-2010, 03:44 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by NWO View Post
How many teams have what would be considered a solid 3rd pairing? It is down th eline of importance.

Well i dont think parten is good enough to be on a top paring. Then again carle is so who knows. Not a straw argument at all.
I said it wouldnt surprise me if sbisa became a solid 3rd pairing guy. Not every 1st rd pick is a top 6 or top 4 player. So if he has a solid career as a bottom pairing dmn, whats wrong with that? not like he was a top 3 pick. I have seen people just hype him too much, same with parten at one time.
Why do you refuse to give any credit whatsoever to any Flyers player past or present? Every time I read your posts its talking about how someone is a bum or not worth the money. Parent is exactly as advertised, and Sbisa hasn't even had a chance to become a stud yet.

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05-03-2010, 03:56 PM
  #148
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I have no idea how I forgot about Sbisa... probably something to do with the fact that he's no longer with the organization, and it being almost 4 AM when I wrote the post.

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05-03-2010, 07:30 PM
  #149
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Why do you refuse to give any credit whatsoever to any Flyers player past or present? Every time I read your posts its talking about how someone is a bum or not worth the money. Parent is exactly as advertised, and Sbisa hasn't even had a chance to become a stud yet.
Al hill an dLen hackborn were underrated. Well paren isnt as advertised. He isnt a top pairing shut down dman or a 2nd pair shut down dman. That is how he was advertised.

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05-03-2010, 09:01 PM
  #150
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Al hill an dLen hackborn were underrated. Well paren isnt as advertised. He isnt a top pairing shut down dman or a 2nd pair shut down dman. That is how he was advertised.
He also just recently played his 100th NHL game.

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