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Which Big Salaried Forward Goes?

View Poll Results: If One of them has to go, who would you like it to be?
Dany Heatley, 28, $7.5 cap hit for 4 more years 11 7.64%
Joe Thornton, 29, $7.2 cap hit for 1 more year 3 2.08%
Patrick Marleau, 29, impending UFA 95 65.97%
Ryane Clowe, 26, $3.625 cap hit for 3 more years 3 2.08%
Joe Pavelski, 24, impending RFA 2 1.39%
Devin Setoguchi, 22, impending RFA 7 4.86%
None, go with the bottom of the barrell in goal and on the blueline 23 15.97%
Voters: 144. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-03-2010, 04:37 PM
  #26
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No magical unicorn option.

This poll is a failure.

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Old
05-03-2010, 04:54 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by param View Post
You mean outside help as in free agency? So if we happen to sign someone who hasn't played on the Sharks a certain number of seasons, we won't be contenders that year?

And because Crosby and Datsyuk won the cup, that automatically bumps them ahead of Thornton?

Setoguchi (speedy winger) can become a consistent 30+ goal scorer, but we still need Marleau on the team because it's tough to find a speedy winger?

The reason I have so many questions is because I don't know what the point of your response is. Your argument isn't very clear to me.
I shortened it up because it has been stated elsewhere. Teams constructed of mercenaries have a much lower chance of winning . . . period. By the numbers through history.

Yes, those two are better because they have won cups. JT's production is exceptionally subpar in the post season even eliminating his Boston years. 33% dropoff. That is not $7mil caliber even. Elite players gravitate to teams where they will get the starring role and be given the opportunity to put up points even to the detriment of the team. Those named players don't have the post-season dropoff. I don't buy any argument that it is the fault of his teammates . . . period. I won't make an argument in player's favor for the same reason of teammates.

Almost every acquired player who is new to a team for a given season has a dropoff for that first season and that is just regular season. It is rare to see an uptick in production. There is a definite correlation between high transaction team levels and lower chances of winning a cup. High transaction levels can help get a team from out of the playoffs to in the playoffs.

Yes, it is tough to find a player of Marleau's skills and Seto isn't close. You can start with Elias and Hossa and move upwards. A great example is to look east to Boston this year and their scoring woes. They overpaid Ryder a couple of years ago and had to unload Kessel. Lo and behold, their scoring fell off, way off. And, Kessel is not that high on the elite list.

IMO, Marleau has 3 or 4 more years at an elite production level because of fitness. It will sure be interesting to see how JT and Heatley respond when their youth departs considering their fitness levels.

I will repeat that I think Marleau will walk anyway, but I think that has more to do with how the org is currently being run. I don't approve of their methods. We'll see how it plays out.

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Old
05-03-2010, 05:10 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
I shortened it up because it has been stated elsewhere. Teams constructed of mercenaries have a much lower chance of winning . . . period. By the numbers through history.

Yes, those two are better because they have won cups. JT's production is exceptionally subpar in the post season even eliminating his Boston years. 33% dropoff. That is not $7mil caliber even. Elite players gravitate to teams where they will get the starring role and be given the opportunity to put up points even to the detriment of the team. Those named players don't have the post-season dropoff. I don't buy any argument that it is the fault of his teammates . . . period. I won't make an argument in player's favor for the same reason of teammates.

Almost every acquired player who is new to a team for a given season has a dropoff for that first season and that is just regular season. It is rare to see an uptick in production. There is a definite correlation between high transaction team levels and lower chances of winning a cup. High transaction levels can help get a team from out of the playoffs to in the playoffs.

Yes, it is tough to find a player of Marleau's skills and Seto isn't close. You can start with Elias and Hossa and move upwards. A great example is to look east to Boston this year and their scoring woes. They overpaid Ryder a couple of years ago and had to unload Kessel. Lo and behold, their scoring fell off, way off. And, Kessel is not that high on the elite list.

IMO, Marleau has 3 or 4 more years at an elite production level because of fitness. It will sure be interesting to see how JT and Heatley respond when their youth departs considering their fitness levels.

I will repeat that I think Marleau will walk anyway, but I think that has more to do with how the org is currently being run. I don't approve of their methods. We'll see how it plays out.
Where's this so-called dropoff with Malhotora, Nichol and Ortmeyer?

What about a guy like Umberger? he scored 3 goals in 4 games his first postseason with the Blue jackets. I'd swap Marleau for him in a heartbeat and the team would improve immediately.

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Old
05-03-2010, 05:16 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
Yes, those two are better because they have won cups. JT's production is exceptionally subpar in the post season even eliminating his Boston years. 33% dropoff. That is not $7mil caliber even. Elite players gravitate to teams where they will get the starring role and be given the opportunity to put up points even to the detriment of the team. Those named players don't have the post-season dropoff. I don't buy any argument that it is the fault of his teammates . . . period. I won't make an argument in player's favor for the same reason of teammates.
I think "exceptionally subpar" is very inaccurate.

His regular season numbers are incredible (1.25ppg) post Bruins.

His post-season numbers are excellent (.84ppg) post Bruins.

How is it that we say Datsyuk's production is a model for post-season play (.90ppg) and Thornton's is a joke? I understand it drops off, but compared to other players of his ilk, his production is still elite.

So if he played more poorly in the regular season, his post season numbers would look better? I think you have allowed your feelings about Thornton to run away with you and are not supported by the facts. Yes he could be better, no he is not 'exceptionally subpar'.

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Old
05-03-2010, 05:18 PM
  #30
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Nabby can go for me. Love the guy, but if i remember correctly the goalie pipeline is filling up isn't it? How good is a greiss/stalock tandem?

I'm just too stuck on Patty's jock for some reason, he's had funks like most other sharks. But when ever he does perform(except that 1 goal burying the Avs), I'm so glad he's in teal. I'm hoping DW didn't tell him the playoffs would be his last games in teal. Sharks need to retire a "franchise" guy with respectable numbers sooner than later, and I'm waiting for patty to blow up in the playoffs hopefully. If Hattrick Patrick dresses in the playoffs, I promised myself I wouldn't "medicate" for the rest of the year. I say Patty, the Joes, Heater, Boyle, Clowe, & Seto are a good competitive core to keep, is that even affordable?

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Old
05-03-2010, 05:19 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwood16 View Post
Where's this so-called dropoff with Malhotora, Nichol and Ortmeyer?

What about a guy like Umberger? he scored 3 goals in 4 games his first postseason with the Blue jackets. I'd swap Marleau for him in a heartbeat and the team would improve immediately.
Malhotra is roughly even with last season's production which is a credit to him. Nichol up. Ortmeyer is now off the map down. There is actually a better example on the Sharks. What I suggest you do is check their post-season production through this entire post-season and see where it goes. I can wait. Can you?

If you think Marleau is streaky, check Umberger. No thanks and your eval severely detracts from your argument. Your evaluation speaks of working through passion rather than analysis. I challenge you to prove your point by analyzing SC winners and their top players. There are exceptions, but they are rare, very rare.

Who are the top scorers on the Sharks this port-season? Where were they acquired? How successful are they right now?

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05-03-2010, 05:24 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
Who are the top scorers on the Sharks this port-season? Where were they acquired? How's successful are they right now?
Joe Pavelski = 14p (draft)
Dan Boyle = 9p (trade)
Dany Heatley = 9p (trade)
Ryane Clowe = 9p (draft)
Devin Setoguchi = 7p (draft)
Joe Thornton = 6p (trade)

I'm not really sure that says a whole lot tbh. Boyle has played as well as any Shark's defensemen in history (drafted or otherwise) and he was traded for. Heatley has had an excellent post season (and missed a game).

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Old
05-03-2010, 05:36 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Oberursel View Post
1) Keep all the big money forwards.
2) Keep Nabby.
3) Release those fans who lately clamored for new players, coaches, or Wilson.

Yes, rebuild their fan base with loyalists and Sharkies should be just fine next year.
That's the option I was looking for too.

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05-03-2010, 05:48 PM
  #34
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I voted the last choice, but also thought we can keep all and sign a top4 d-man. But after looking at what is probably the near best scenario, I don't think so.

of course this is assuming patty and nabby will take "home-town" deals, and seto, pavs, malhotra and nichol will take less then what they offered elesewhere.
Pavs and seto of course comes with returns. But, really we will give Pavs whatever he asks for in the end. If all the above are willing to make concessions I would say let seto go, get some draft picks and sign a good top 4 d-man.

But I also do not believe the below can really happen...

Cap Geek:
Dany Heatley ($7.500m) / Joe Thornton ($7.200m) / * Patrick Marleau ($6.000m)
Ryane Clowe ($3.625m) / * Joe Pavelski ($3.250m) / * Devin Setoguchi ($2.500m)
Torrey Mitchell ($1.367m) / Logan Couture ($1.242m) / * Manny Malhotra ($1.000m)
* Scott Nichol ($1.000m) / Jamie McGinn ($0.997m) / * Jed Ortmeyer ($0.550m)
Frazer McLaren ($0.543m)
DEFENSEMEN
Dan Boyle ($6.667m) / Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($3.100m)
Douglas Murray ($2.500m) / Kent Huskins ($1.700m)
* Niclas Wallin ($1.250m) / Jason Demers ($0.543m)
GOALTENDERS
* Evgeni Nabokov ($4.000m) / Thomas Greiss ($0.550m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS
ROSTER: 21; PAYROLL: $57.083m; CAP ROOM: $0.432m BONUSES: $0.715m

Edit: I do think Nabby will take less though, as he said he would never hold out again after his last salary negotiation. And I think he likes it here.

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05-03-2010, 05:50 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by SharkMight View Post
I voted the last choice, but also thought we can keep all and sign a top4 d-man. But after looking at what is probably the near best scenario, I don't think so.

of course this is assuming patty and nabby will take "home-town" deals, and seto, pavs, malhotra and nichol will take less then what they offered elesewhere.
Pavs and seto of course comes with returns. But, really we will give Pavs whatever he asks for in the end. If all the above are willing to make concessions I would say let seto go, get some draft picks and sign a good top 4 d-man.

But I also do not believe the below can really happen...

Cap Geek:
Dany Heatley ($7.500m) / Joe Thornton ($7.200m) / * Patrick Marleau ($6.000m)
Ryane Clowe ($3.625m) / * Joe Pavelski ($3.250m) / * Devin Setoguchi ($2.500m)
Torrey Mitchell ($1.367m) / Logan Couture ($1.242m) / * Manny Malhotra ($1.000m)
* Scott Nichol ($1.000m) / Jamie McGinn ($0.997m) / * Jed Ortmeyer ($0.550m)
Frazer McLaren ($0.543m)
DEFENSEMEN
Dan Boyle ($6.667m) / Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($3.100m)
Douglas Murray ($2.500m) / Kent Huskins ($1.700m)
* Niclas Wallin ($1.250m) / Jason Demers ($0.543m)
GOALTENDERS
* Evgeni Nabokov ($4.000m) / Thomas Greiss ($0.550m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS
ROSTER: 21; PAYROLL: $57.083m; CAP ROOM: $0.432m BONUSES: $0.715m

Edit: I do think Nabby will take less though, as he said he would never hold out again after his last salary negotiation.
Pav's is getting more than 3.25 at this point. If he want's 5, he's probably going to get it. I expect around 4.5 more likely.

Seto is going to get 3 min, there's no doubt in my mind.

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Old
05-03-2010, 05:51 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwood16 View Post
Where's this so-called dropoff with Malhotora, Nichol and Ortmeyer?

What about a guy like Umberger? he scored 3 goals in 4 games his first postseason with the Blue jackets. I'd swap Marleau for him in a heartbeat and the team would improve immediately.


That statement only shows how skewed your perception is.

Anyway, CBus isn't giving up RJ, ask Viqsi.

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05-03-2010, 05:55 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
Pav's is getting more than 3.25 at this point. If he want's 5, he's probably going to get it. I expect around 4.5 more likely.

Seto is going to get 3 min, there's no doubt in my mind.
Seto is a wild card because he is not arbitration eligible. $2-$2.2mil on a one year is possible although not likely.

On Pavs, we had him pegged for between Weiss and Roy before his post-season explosion. I do figure his ceiling is $5mil and further production won't make it go up but will lengthen the contract.

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05-03-2010, 05:56 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
Pav's is getting more than 3.25 at this point. If he want's 5, he's probably going to get it. I expect around 4.5 more likely.

Seto is going to get 3 min, there's no doubt in my mind.
And add about 500K to Manny if we want to re-sign him, which I think we should to a 3 year deal.

I'd offer Nabby 3m max or go after Ellis or Biron and platoon with Greiss.

We can dump Huskins for a 7th round pick or stash him in Worcester.

Also, that D corps will get crushed. We will need another top 4 dman to take Blakes spot. I'm hoping for Michalek, Hamhuis, Martin or Volchenkov - just like every other team - or a trade for Brent Burns.

If we do prioritize a top 4 dman, then it becomes clear that a high paid player can't be re-signed...

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05-03-2010, 05:57 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
Pav's is getting more than 3.25 at this point. If he want's 5, he's probably going to get it. I expect around 4.5 more likely.

Seto is going to get 3 min, there's no doubt in my mind.
totally agree, I was just posting the absolute best scenario. My point was that at first I thought we would not have to let any top player go. But after crunching the best-case scenario, i knew those hopes were gone.

I think in reality, maybe 2-3 will take less then what they could get elsewhere. But, in reality most will not. And by the best case scenario listed, we still couldn't sign a top 4 d-man.

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05-03-2010, 06:02 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by SharkMight View Post
But I also do not believe the below can really happen...

Cap Geek:
Dany Heatley ($7.500m) / Joe Thornton ($7.200m) / * Patrick Marleau ($6.000m)
Ryane Clowe ($3.625m) / * Joe Pavelski ($3.250m) / * Devin Setoguchi ($2.500m)
Torrey Mitchell ($1.367m) / Logan Couture ($1.242m) / * Manny Malhotra ($1.000m)
* Scott Nichol ($1.000m) / Jamie McGinn ($0.997m) / * Jed Ortmeyer ($0.550m)
Frazer McLaren ($0.543m)
DEFENSEMEN
Dan Boyle ($6.667m) / Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($3.100m)
Douglas Murray ($2.500m) / Kent Huskins ($1.700m)
* Niclas Wallin ($1.250m) / Jason Demers ($0.543m)
GOALTENDERS
* Evgeni Nabokov ($4.000m) / Thomas Greiss ($0.550m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS
ROSTER: 21; PAYROLL: $57.083m; CAP ROOM: $0.432m BONUSES: $0.715m
This is a pipedream and the defense is not at all good. As hockeyball said, there is no way Pavs and Seto take HTDs of that magnitude. Also Malhotra is going to get offers of more than 1 mil easily. I think it's obvious, we need to let Marleau go. Replace him with someone like a Sammy. There's a couple of solid wingers that we could get for 3mil. The difference goes to giving Pavs, Seto, and Malhotra realistic salaries. Also hopefully we can trade off Huskins and we shouldn't resign Wallin. Bring up Joslin or whoever as our 6th, Demers is 5th, and use the 3 million to sign a good top 4 dman, someone like Error (oh wait a minute...). Resign Leach as our 7th.

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05-03-2010, 06:03 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Gilligans Island View Post
And add about 500K to Manny if we want to re-sign him, which I think we should to a 3 year deal.

I'd offer Nabby 3m max or go after Ellis or Biron and platoon with Greiss.

We can dump Huskins for a 7th round pick or stash him in Worcester.

Also, that D corps will get crushed. We will need another top 4 dman to take Blakes spot. I'm hoping for Michalek, Hamhuis, Martin or Volchenkov - just like every other team - or a trade for Brent Burns.

If we do prioritize a top 4 dman, then it becomes clear that a high paid player can't be re-signed...
Some are missing my point of my post. It was probably the bad wording of my wording , but my point was that everyone is saying sharks fans are dumping on the sharks before playoffs are over. But, we must sign a new top-4 dman

I was just trying to show, that is pretty much impossible to re-sign our talent and then sign a top 4 d-man. I think everyone on these boards agrees, a top-4 d-man is a must without a doubt.

Even if all of the above sign for under market values listed, we still cannot sign a top 4 dman.

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05-03-2010, 06:05 PM
  #42
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Here's what I'm hoping for - unfortunately, I can't make a team work with Patty re-signed... Pavs and Seto have raised their amounts a bit w/ their postseason performance.

I think the top priority is getting a real #2 or #3 dman. Blake can play #5 and fill in on the top 4 when needed. Demers is the wildcard to becoming a top 4 player. If that happens we're in better shape on the D. I wouldn't bank on it though. We can savea little cap space going w/ Moore or Joslin instead of Wallin

Nolan would be a luxury on the bottom 6. We can save a bit there and go w/ a Worcester player who stands out.

Mitchell, Ferreiro or Malhotra can fill in on top line. Point is we need a speedy forechecker/rover on that line to retrieve pucks.

AUTO-GENERATED CAPGEEK.COM LINES
FORWARDS
Dany Heatley ($7.500m) / Joe Thornton ($7.200m) / Torrey Mitchell ($1.367m)
Ryane Clowe ($3.625m) /* Joe Pavelski ($4.500m) * Devin Setoguchi ($2.850m)
Jamie McGinn ($0.997m) / Logan Couture ($1.242m) / * Manny Malhotra ($1.750m)
Benn Ferriero ($0.850m)/ * Scott Nichol ($1.000m) / * Owen Nolan ($1.333m)
* Brad Staubitz ($0.500m)

DEFENSEMEN
Dan Boyle ($6.667m) / Douglas Murray ($2.500m)
Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($3.100m) / * #2 (Kubina, Michalek, Martin) ($4.500m)
* Rob Blake ($1.500m) / Jason Demers ($0.543m)
* Niclas Wallin ($1.250m)

GOALTENDERS
* (Ellis, Biron, Toskala, Turco ($3.000m) / Thomas Greiss ($0.550m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS
ROSTER: 22; PAYROLL: $58.323m; CAP ROOM: $0.407m BONUSES: $0.930m

edit: assumes cap is $57.8 next year

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Old
05-03-2010, 06:09 PM
  #43
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Must say that I'm surprised about the amount that Marleau is winning by. Considering that he likely knows that he won't score 43 again without Joe, and is a lifetime shark, at what cap number do you think Marleau has to go down to in order for the Sharks to want to move someone else (factoring in that everyone else gets a decent return in trade).
IMO, Marleau signs a contract similar to Savard signed with Boston, or i say we should let him walk or trade his rights for a 3rd rounder if possible.


That Combined with Blake coming off the books, Nabokov,and HOPEFULLY, Pavelski and Seto taking 2nd Contracts, and not the stupid "pay for potential" contracts, it should work out with being able to sign an OK Defenceman, and maybe get a goalie of similar quality for a bit less.

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05-03-2010, 06:09 PM
  #44
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In reality our free agents could reasonably ask for this, either with us or on another team:

FORWARDS
* Patrick Marleau ($7.500m) / Dany Heatley ($7.500m) / Joe Thornton ($7.200m)
* Joe Pavelski ($4.250m) / Ryane Clowe ($3.625m) / * Devin Setoguchi ($3.000m)
* Manny Malhotra ($1.500m) / * Scott Nichol ($1.500m) / Torrey Mitchell ($1.367m)
Logan Couture ($1.242m) / Jamie McGinn ($0.997m) / * Jed Ortmeyer ($0.550m)
Frazer McLaren ($0.543m)
DEFENSEMEN
Dan Boyle ($6.667m) / Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($3.100m)
Douglas Murray ($2.500m) / Kent Huskins ($1.700m)
* Niclas Wallin ($1.250m) / Jason Demers ($0.543m)
GOALTENDERS
* Evgeni Nabokov ($6.000m) / Thomas Greiss ($0.550m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS
ROSTER: 21; PAYROLL: $63.083m; CAP ROOM: $-5.568m BONUSES: $0.715m

We may have to dump 2 players to get a top d-man and under the cap.

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05-03-2010, 06:10 PM
  #45
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Two points that make this whole thread premature:

1) The cup changes everything

2) The cup changes everything.



Oh, and I have a feeling Wallin was promised a contract in order to get that trade finalized. Just a guess, but don't be surprised when he's re-signed.

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Old
05-03-2010, 06:25 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
Two points that make this whole thread premature:

1) The cup changes everything

2) The cup changes everything.



Oh, and I have a feeling Wallin was promised a contract in order to get that trade finalized. Just a guess, but don't be surprised when he's re-signed.
I don't think he was. The trade almost didn't go through because DW refused to sign an extension first.

As for forwards, my hope is that we can keep everyone except Nabby and get lucky with a FA dman, there's a pretty big crop of them this year and we could end up getting someone for cheap, like what happened with Malhotra. Or else we should trade someone off the roster, (IMO Clowe or Murray). (The Sharks would then expect some rookie/Demers to step up big in training camp for a top 4 spot/splitting time with Blake in the top 4.)

Something like this might work if Moore replaces Murray:

FORWARDS
Dany Heatley ($7.500m) / Joe Thornton ($7.200m) / * Patrick Marleau ($6.000m)
* Joe Pavelski ($4.330m) / * Devin Setoguchi ($3.625m) / Ryane Clowe ($3.625m)
* Manny Malhotra ($1.500m) / Torrey Mitchell ($1.367m) / Logan Couture ($1.242m)
Jamie McGinn ($0.997m) / * Scott Nichol ($0.900m) / Benn Ferriero ($0.850m)
* Brad Staubitz ($0.550m)
DEFENSEMEN
Dan Boyle ($6.667m) / Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($3.100m)
* Rob Blake ($2.500m) / Kent Huskins ($1.700m)
Jason Demers ($0.543m) / Mike Moore ($0.512m)
GOALTENDERS
* Dan Ellis ($2.000m) / Thomas Greiss ($0.550m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS
ROSTER: 21; PAYROLL: $57.257m; CAP ROOM: $0.473m BONUSES: $0.930m


Last edited by tarlinian: 05-03-2010 at 06:31 PM.
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05-03-2010, 06:42 PM
  #47
Mhoogasian94123
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Originally Posted by SharkMight View Post
In reality our free agents could reasonably ask for this, either with us or on another team:

FORWARDS
* Patrick Marleau ($7.500m) / Dany Heatley ($7.500m) / Joe Thornton ($7.200m)
* Joe Pavelski ($4.250m) / Ryane Clowe ($3.625m) / * Devin Setoguchi ($3.000m)
* Manny Malhotra ($1.500m) / * Scott Nichol ($1.500m) / Torrey Mitchell ($1.367m)
Logan Couture ($1.242m) / Jamie McGinn ($0.997m) / * Jed Ortmeyer ($0.550m)
Frazer McLaren ($0.543m)
DEFENSEMEN
Dan Boyle ($6.667m) / Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($3.100m)
Douglas Murray ($2.500m) / Kent Huskins ($1.700m)
* Niclas Wallin ($1.250m) / Jason Demers ($0.543m)
GOALTENDERS
* Evgeni Nabokov ($6.000m) / Thomas Greiss ($0.550m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS
ROSTER: 21; PAYROLL: $63.083m; CAP ROOM: $-5.568m BONUSES: $0.715m

We may have to dump 2 players to get a top d-man and under the cap.

I'm sorry but this isn't NHL11. I don't want to be the Calgary Flames or Chicago Blackhawks. I think Marleau and Nabby are playing well, but CAP ROOM is CAP ROOM. There will be some decent goalies on the market and we can get someone to replace Nabby for less. I would trade BOTH Marleau and Nabby for draft picks/decent players to fill the void. Fortunately the season isn't over for us. I truly believe we shouldn't sweat the offseason stuff until we're out or we're raising the cup!!!

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05-03-2010, 07:23 PM
  #48
dwood16
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Malhotra is roughly even with last season's production which is a credit to him. Nichol up. Ortmeyer is now off the map down. There is actually a better example on the Sharks. What I suggest you do is check their post-season production through this entire post-season and see where it goes. I can wait. Can you?

If you think Marleau is streaky, check Umberger. No thanks and your eval severely detracts from your argument. Your evaluation speaks of working through passion rather than analysis. I challenge you to prove your point by analyzing SC winners and their top players. There are exceptions, but they are rare, very rare.

Who are the top scorers on the Sharks this port-season? Where were they acquired? How successful are they right now?
The point you made about players dropping off their first season with a new team is still absurd. I does happen, but it isn't a sure thing. Rivet had a career year his first season in SJ if you are going by stats, which seems to be what you are doing. My point about Nichol, Manny, and Orty is that they are playing exceptionally well their first season with SJ too, regardless of what stats you wanna look at. Umberger is streaky but also helped Colombus quite a bit his first year there too, and he plays like Esa Tikkanen in the playoffs.

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05-03-2010, 07:31 PM
  #49
SJeasy
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Originally Posted by dwood16 View Post
The point you made about players dropping off their first season with a new team is still absurd. I does happen, but it isn't a sure thing. Rivet had a career year his first season in SJ if you are going by stats, which seems to be what you are doing. My point about Nichol, Manny, and Orty is that they are playing exceptionally well their first season with SJ too, regardless of what stats you wanna look at. Umberger is streaky but also helped Colombus quite a bit his first year there too, and he plays like Esa Tikkanen in the playoffs.
You need to check the numbers before making assertions. I didn't say there weren't exceptions and to take the emotional response out of it and go by cold, hard eval, I use stats and I have checked 100s of players. If Malhotra can put up 3 or 4 points in 12 to 14 playoff games, he beat his numbers and I will applaud him for it. I like all three of the named players, I just don't think they are all that much different than 100s of others. As also stated before, it isn't the superficial intensity of which you are so fond but the deep seated intensity that wins. Frequently the superficial stuff is a mask for a real lack of what goes into winning.

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05-03-2010, 07:47 PM
  #50
dwood16
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
You need to check the numbers before making assertions. I didn't say there weren't exceptions and to take the emotional response out of it and go by cold, hard eval, I use stats and I have checked 100s of players. If Malhotra can put up 3 or 4 points in 12 to 14 playoff games, he beat his numbers and I will applaud him for it. I like all three of the named players, I just don't think they are all that much different than 100s of others. As also stated before, it isn't the superficial intensity of which you are so fond but the deep seated intensity that wins. Frequently the superficial stuff is a mask for a real lack of what goes into winning.
So.... Malhotra, Nichol, Umberger and Ortmeyer = superficial intensity

but Marleau = deep seated intensity???? : laugh:

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