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Ossi Vaananen trade value

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Old
02-28-2005, 12:08 PM
  #51
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The Avs also got a 2nd in the next draft as well.

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Old
03-01-2005, 12:36 AM
  #52
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The Great One said Vaananen "could" be the next Pronger.

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Old
03-01-2005, 01:32 AM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadakiss
The Great One said Vaananen "could" be the next Pronger.

Nice avatar

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Old
03-01-2005, 06:52 AM
  #54
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no worry's guys we will see next NHL year..

and i think ossi will be fine!

he's playing sm-liiga this year
23 games 2 goals 2 assists 4 points +7 26 pim

he will be never pointmachine but good defenseman for sure!

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Old
03-01-2005, 10:05 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by borro
My point exactly...
Again, I have to point out your lack of balance here. For months, you've been trying to convince us that Brendan Witt is a proven #1 defensemen who could command a package that would include at least a first round pick and a stud young player. However, Ossi V., who is far superior to Witt in every way, is overrated?


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Old
03-01-2005, 12:49 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Again, I have to point out your lack of balance here. For months, you've been trying to convince us that Brendan Witt is a proven #1 defensemen who could command a package that would include at least a first round pick and a stud young player. However, Ossi V., who is far superior to Witt in every way, is overrated?
I agree pretty much entirely with the Vaananen > Witt assessment as Vaananen is much younger as well as being bigger and faster. However, Witt is superior than Vaananen, right now, in terms of leadership abilities and physical meanness. Otherwise, Vaananen is definitely worth more on the market and even if they were the same age, they'd be comparable in terms of talent. Both are rock solid with little offensive abilties. Witt is meaner and a better hitter while Vaananen is much faster and a smart hitter who doesn't often take himself out of position.

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03-01-2005, 06:19 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jovanovski = Norris
However, Witt is superior than Vaananen, right now, in terms of leadership abilities and physical meanness.
Ossi Vaananen is not any less physical than Brendan Witt. If _anything_, he's actually more of a hitter.

He was by far Colorado's most physical defenseman ahead of Blake, Foote, and Boughner.

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Old
03-01-2005, 06:27 PM
  #58
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where does witt get this leadership tag, is it b/c he's the oldest player there ?? does he get this by default

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Old
03-01-2005, 06:29 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andora
where does witt get this leadership tag, is it b/c he's the oldest player there ?? does he get this by default
Probably because he was a captain on a pathetic and young team, as well as the fact that he's North American and Vaananen is not.

Unfortunately, that's the truth.

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Old
03-01-2005, 09:48 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Again, I have to point out your lack of balance here. For months, you've been trying to convince us that Brendan Witt is a proven #1 defensemen who could command a package that would include at least a first round pick and a stud young player. However, Ossi V., who is far superior to Witt in every way, is overrated?
I have never claimed Witt is a proven #1. He was the Caps #1 at the end of the season. Do you find the need for those reaching comments to validate your poorly thought out points? I simply responded to his claim that Vaananen would not be traded in a heartbeat for Ovechkin. Sorry for the reality check here, but he would be gone yesterday. Andora makes the point that he doesn't like Ovechkin's style and rates Vaananen higher because he likes him. I'm simply claiming what I would ask. Witt is a better player than Carlo now, he will be better next year and in my mind for at least 2-3 years after that. Witt plays a defensive dman's game and adds a gritty element. In my opinion, Witt would give them a better shot now than Carlo will. Carlo would fit better with what we are doing(futures). I would ask for the first because Witt is better than Carlo now. It may be overpayment. The Leafs seem pretty happy with Klee and Witt was always far better than him, and I am a Klee fan. Doesn't it make sense to add someone who will help you when you are making a legitimate push? I even offered to leverage the "risk" Witt would play out his option with a conditional pick. That has always been one of your big things. It's the same junk we heard about Oates and all the naysayers will be wrong again. We could just sign Witt in a rollback environment. The point may be moot if he is a free agent. I forgot, I'm not allowed to use examples that prove my point. Reversing the rolls, Oates would be every fifth word out of your mouth. Maybe you are just talking fantasyland like Andora claimed. You wanna say I overrate Witt, fine. He overrates Vaananen. He said he stands by his decision and that was ok by Darth Milbury. Why is my decision to stand by my assestment of Witt's value any different? Hypocrisy is the same standard for all. If Andora can like a guy and have his value in the stratosphere so can I!

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03-01-2005, 09:54 PM
  #61
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learn to see the difference in context... then it'll be clearer

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03-01-2005, 10:00 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadakiss
The Great One said Vaananen "could" be the next Pronger.
Perhaps so . . . . I hate to point this out but the great one also picked Blake Wheeler at five also . . . which also may turn out but remains a huge ? and most think a huge reach that high

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Old
03-01-2005, 11:17 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by borro
I I forgot, I'm not allowed to use examples that prove my point. Reversing the rolls, Oates would be every fifth word out of your mouth. Maybe you are just talking fantasyland like Andora claimed. You wanna say I overrate Witt, fine. He overrates Vaananen. He said he stands by his decision and that was ok by Darth Milbury. Why is my decision to stand by my assestment of Witt's value any different? Hypocrisy is the same standard for all. If Andora can like a guy and have his value in the stratosphere so can I!
My point is that you can't run around expecting the moon for Witt because he is a physical defensive dman and then turn around and scream "overrated" when fans of other teams think highly of better versions of that type of player. Basically, your argument that Witt would be worth a 1st rounder and one of the better young dmen in the league from Ottawa is no better than Andora's claim that he wouldn't trade Ossi V. for any Cap. At least Andora's logic has some reason to it....

If you want to keep throwing out Oates, I can remind you of how incredibly wrong you were about the trade value of other Caps. I remember, for example, the ridiculous return you were predicting the Caps would get for Bondra.

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Old
03-01-2005, 11:45 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
My point is that you can't run around expecting the moon for Witt because he is a physical defensive dman and then turn around and scream "overrated" when fans of other teams think highly of better versions of that type of player. Basically, your argument that Witt would be worth a 1st rounder and one of the better young dmen in the league from Ottawa is no better than Andora's claim that he wouldn't trade Ossi V. for any Cap. At least Andora's logic has some reason to it....

Hang on a sec...let's evaluate here...Unless "the league" is the AHL, Cola isn't there yet. He is also an injury prone young dman so far. If you took 2 players, and one was currently proven, the other a prospect with good potential but still unproven at the NHL level, the one who is proven is worth more. So if you add a player it may even it out. The Caps don't want a player who is like a Laich. So you ask for the #1 pick. This bridges the gap between Witt, the better player now and Cola. We suffer completely until Carlo outperforms Witt. He will never be the gritty force Witt is. Witt has chemisty with Klee too. Toronto, not Ottawa, is giving up alot. I admit that. I believe Toronto is not that far away. I also believe Witt would thrive in an organization where he is not the "Lone Ranger." That's alot of reasons for someone without a reason.

If you want to keep throwing out Oates, I can remind you of how incredibly wrong you were about the trade value of other Caps. I remember, for example, the ridiculous return you were predicting the Caps would get for Bondra.
I don't remember what I was asking for Bondra. I'm guessing it would have been like a 1st and Volchenkov. His performance in Ottawa would tend to say you are correct and I was wrong. As long as Bondra was there, I think we still thought about the "Old Regime." Trading Bondra made it clear change was in the air. I loved his game and his loyalty to the Caps. I am hoping we resign him.

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Old
03-02-2005, 12:00 AM
  #65
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I don't know if the Caps are going to resign Bondra, but either way, I think Washington is lucky to have fans who are as passionate as you!

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Old
03-02-2005, 12:23 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
I don't know if the Caps are going to resign Bondra, but either way, I think Washington is lucky to have fans who are as passionate as you!
Peter Bondra is Mr. Cap. People will go around years from now and marvel at this guy. Super nice guy and the Caps hated to trade him. It was a $ decision plain and simple. Bondra is not just any guy to us. He is beloved. He was hurt by the deal. Cap fans are still hopeful he comes back. We also would not deny him a shot with a team that has a prayer. Mr. Leonsis will win points bringing back Peter. I could see him signing again with Ottawa. He is still a talented open ice player.

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