HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Los Angeles Kings
Notices

How would you rate our scouting??

View Poll Results: Grade The Kings Scouting Staff
A 33 46.48%
B 34 47.89%
C 4 5.63%
D 0 0%
F 0 0%
Voters: 71. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-03-2010, 03:03 PM
  #1
Kingjordan
Registered User
 
Kingjordan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,558
vCash: 500
How would you rate our scouting??

How would you rate the Kings skating staff since DL took over??

IMO they have done a great job but have also blown some choices..

King could have Myers but Chose Teubert... Yes I know early and Teubert has not had his chance but Myers is one h*ll of a player..

Trevor Lewis.. Jury is still out..

But they have done an amazing job picking later in the draft..

What grade would you give them??

Kingjordan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2010, 03:25 PM
  #2
etherialone
dialed in your mom
 
etherialone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: The Ether
Country: United Nations
Posts: 12,990
vCash: 500
I can't see how they could be rated any lower than an B+-A. I gave them a grade score of an A. If you look around the league we are considered to have one of the top two rookie systems in regards to depth/talent.
It wasn't like this when DL took over and redefined our scouting system.

I see the Tuebert deal as a total bust. Not that Tuebert will be a bust but that what we gave up to get him was such a ridiculous overpayment that he would have to become a JJ type of player to come close to being equal to what we gave up for him. I see this deal more as a DL wanting to get rid of MC than it being a case of how CT will be as a player though in some ways.

Trevor Lewis doesn't look like he will live up to his pre draft hype or even close to it but, he does look like a solid NHL caliber forward so as he was part of a package deal, I think he is a good young asset to have.

etherialone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2010, 03:28 PM
  #3
TonySCV
Moderator
One More Time
 
TonySCV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 12,879
vCash: 500
It's a little early since so many of the prospects they've drafted are still developing, but they have hit a couple of home runs already, particularly with Doughty and Simmonds. Other prospects are showing signs of promise.

The only player of significance to date that they didn't draft that they could have and probably should have is Tyler Myers. I'd love to hear from Dean or the scouts if Myers was ever considered and if so why they chose to pass on him.

The jury is still out on most of the other prospects.

I was going to give them a B to ding them for Myers, but it's hard not to give them an A for Doughty alone - then there's Simmonds. Then if you compare our prospect barn with those of the 29 other NHL teams - an A is certainly appropriate.

As a "no-brainer" of a pick as Doughty may have been - they still had to pick him.

TonySCV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2010, 03:43 PM
  #4
Gentle Ben Kenobi
That's no moon......
 
Gentle Ben Kenobi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Tatooine
Posts: 18,815
vCash: 863
Trevor Lewis was not chosen by our current scouting staff, He was chosen by the Kings old scouting staff.

Gentle Ben Kenobi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2010, 03:43 PM
  #5
KingsCrown
Registered User
 
KingsCrown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: San Diego, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 244
vCash: 500
I think theyve done a good job. The Myers pick will be ingrained in my memory for a long time, but I understand why at the time they picked Teubert instead of Myers. I honestly thought they were going to pick Myers and was very excited we traded up into that spot. The Cambell over Grachev pick is also still one I really want to go back in the Delorean and change but hindsight blah blah blah. You have to give them credit prospect wise as far as Loktionov, Moller, Voynov, Kozun.

Roster wise, Simmonds & Richardson. An unranked player and then a 4th line player in Colorado that now seems to be a good utility man that can play in all situations. They did a good job picking them out.

Doughty & Schenn were no brainers, so no extra points for them on that.

Hickey is probably the one we are all curious about. I know why we picked him, and that we were unable to move down to get him. We'll just have to see a injury-free season in the AHL before we can really evaluate where he is at.

What Im the most impressed about is the free agent signings of Martin Jones and Muzzin. So far they look like legit prospects.

KingsCrown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2010, 03:51 PM
  #6
Legionnaire
Kill! Jeff, Kill!!!
 
Legionnaire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: LA-LA Land
Country: United States
Posts: 34,671
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
I can't see how they could be rated any lower than an B+-A. I gave them a grade score of an A. If you look around the league we are considered to have one of the top two rookie systems in regards to depth/talent.
It wasn't like this when DL took over and redefined our scouting system.

I see the Tuebert deal as a total bust. Not that Tuebert will be a bust but that what we gave up to get him was such a ridiculous overpayment that he would have to become a JJ type of player to come close to being equal to what we gave up for him. I see this deal more as a DL wanting to get rid of MC than it being a case of how CT will be as a player though in some ways.

Trevor Lewis doesn't look like he will live up to his pre draft hype or even close to it but, he does look like a solid NHL caliber forward so as he was part of a package deal, I think he is a good young asset to have.
The Kings have been in the top of the prospect rankings for years so it doesn't necessarily mean that they're actually going to all pan out.

Legionnaire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2010, 03:59 PM
  #7
Cutty Sarkn3ss*
I bet u trade me
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Granada Hills, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 4,983
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Cutty Sarkn3ss*
Where is the A+ option?

Cutty Sarkn3ss* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2010, 04:17 PM
  #8
etherialone
dialed in your mom
 
etherialone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: The Ether
Country: United Nations
Posts: 12,990
vCash: 500
True Trevor Lewis was part of a deal but our current GM and former scout DL had to rely on the information provided him by his scouting staff in order to make lewis part of the package.

Remember that scouts are used for allot more than assessing draftable talent, they also keep an eye on potentially moveable players around the league both in the NHL and the minor leagues.

As for our highly ranked young talent making the team or not and how this effects the rating of our scouting staff well I can say that it's like arguing apples and oranges.

Our staff goes out and pours over every player that might help our team win a stanley cup. Every NHL AHL USHL NCAA OHL WHL QMJH etc (not to mention Eu leagues) and then tries to find a way to either acquire them or continue to follow them until they either are part of our team(system) or completely unavailable to us.

Having a truly deep system of talented young players means more to our total success then the amount of them that actually make it onto our NHL roster. There will be those that lose favor with us and make it into the NHL on another roster (Moulson Sim Steckle etc) and those who simply bust out but, all of them contribute into a higher level of talent in our system and that elevates our overall play and our expectations as an organization.

The other thing that I would say is that having highly valued depth in our system gives us a much better chance at having a higher percentage of them panning out.

I guess I don't really understand your argument when you say that "The Kings have been in the top of the prospect rankings for years so it doesn't necessarily mean that they're actually going to all pan out".

Is it better that we have a less highly regarded system so that even fewer of them pan out or are you saying that as it is in all sports that not every highly regarded young talent lives up to their expectations?

Because while it is true that we have been in the top of the prospect rankings for years, if you take a look at the percentage of players that have made it into the NHL during this time span that you will find that it is significantly higher than it EVER has been prior to now.

etherialone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2010, 04:21 PM
  #9
Sybil227
Registered User
 
Sybil227's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Santa Clarita
Country: United States
Posts: 2,491
vCash: 500
Their Knot Tying and Assisting the Elderly could use some work, but they get solid A.
And, yes, they deserve extra points for Doughty. It's easy to forget now, but a LOT of people weren't sure who was the bigger talent at that draft, Doughty or Bogosian. How would you feel now if we had picked the other way?


Last edited by Sybil227: 05-03-2010 at 04:22 PM. Reason: spelling
Sybil227 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2010, 04:23 PM
  #10
Randart
Registered User
 
Randart's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Carson, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 1,127
vCash: 500
Though I have been a Critic...

Gave it an A as I believe they all deserve... even thou I have been a critic of DL and his picks at times especially of Hickey I will be most happy if TH makes it to his potential and is a awesome player in the league! Cudo's to DL and the staff for that pick I would never have made it. I am very happy with our propects pool and what DL and his guys have put together both in the drafts through trades an free agent pick ups etc...

Will be fun to see what surprises the Swamii has under his turbin for this year's draft. And what he does in the off season with the FA market and Fro etc... Alot of the future is in his hands this off season alot!

Randart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2010, 04:25 PM
  #11
Buddy The Elf
Kings!
 
Buddy The Elf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Belmont Shore
Country: United States
Posts: 9,583
vCash: 500
I gave them a B for because. Because there is always room for improvement! I think they've done a good job but time will tell how good they really have done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sybil227 View Post
Their Knot Tying and Assisting the Elderly could use some work, but they get solid A.
And, yes, they deserve extra points for Doughty. It's easy to forget now, but a LOT of people weren't sure who was the bigger talent at that draft, Doughty or Bogosian. How would you feel now if we had picked the other way?
There were at least a handful still saying Bogosian after Doughty's first year. I'm guessing that has changed now.

Buddy The Elf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2010, 04:27 PM
  #12
BigBrown
They did it again!
 
BigBrown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 4,044
vCash: 500
I gave them a B. I'd say they're well above average in the league.

BigBrown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2010, 04:29 PM
  #13
KingsFan7824
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,790
vCash: 500
If you get a couple guys every draft that help your team out in any way, it's a good draft. You can get a star at the top, or in some middle round. I just can't bring myself to hold the Kings accountable for not picking Myers. It happens. The Kings lucked out with picking Kopitar where they did. As random as the draft is, it should even out over time. Unless you get absolutely nothing draft after draft, which the Kings have done a few times.

Look at Weber. Not only was he the 49th overall pick, but Nashville had three 2nd round picks in 2003, and Weber was the 3rd pick of the bunch.

If you get 2 or 3 guys in a draft that contribute on your 23 man roster, even if you end up trading one of them or something, then I have no complaints.

KingsFan7824 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2010, 04:32 PM
  #14
etherialone
dialed in your mom
 
etherialone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: The Ether
Country: United Nations
Posts: 12,990
vCash: 500
I see this offseason as THE most critical of our Franchises history to date.

We have gobs of young talent and are deep enough in some positions that if the perfect deal came up we could easily make it without depleting our system (unlike in years past).

We have serious depth at certain roster positions and a serious lack of it at others and this will need to be addressed.

We have a couple of pending RFA/UFA's that are either critical to our team now or a very intrinsic part of our core group to let simply walk out of frustration or for $greener$ pastures.

The draft being in LA means that we will certainly make some noise.

We need one solid stay at home number 5-6 dman (who has limited #4 upside) wether this comes from our own system or the free agent market we need to address this problem once and for all.

We need to build on this past seasons success because I believe that if we don't improve and move forward again this coming season that we will end up losing a couple of core players to free agency and watch our team spiral into mediocracy again.

etherialone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2010, 05:08 PM
  #15
kingsfan28
Viva Los Cucarachas!
 
kingsfan28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Earth
Country: United States
Posts: 11,369
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
I can't see how they could be rated any lower than an B+-A. I gave them a grade score of an A. If you look around the league we are considered to have one of the top two rookie systems in regards to depth/talent.
It wasn't like this when DL took over and redefined our scouting system.

I see the Tuebert deal as a total bust. Not that Tuebert will be a bust but that what we gave up to get him was such a ridiculous overpayment that he would have to become a JJ type of player to come close to being equal to what we gave up for him. I see this deal more as a DL wanting to get rid of MC than it being a case of how CT will be as a player though in some ways.

Trevor Lewis doesn't look like he will live up to his pre draft hype or even close to it but, he does look like a solid NHL caliber forward so as he was part of a package deal, I think he is a good young asset to have.
DL tried to get more for MC, but as he said, there really wasn't a lot of takers because most GM's knew MC was going the FA way. I still don't think we'd have gotten a 1st if DL traded him during the season. While Myers appears to be the real deal, I'll wait until Tuebert playing before I'll even consider him a bust. We have plenty of time for him to develop into the player we all expect him to be. We still won in that draft, because Doughty will be worth 5 top picks alone.

kingsfan28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2010, 05:24 PM
  #16
Kurrilino
Go Stoll Go
 
Kurrilino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,525
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Kurrilino
I would give them a solid c+
I know i'm not that popular with that opinion.

I judge just by the facts.
Yes we have a deep prospect pool
but how many of them are really helping ????

The fact is we had many top 5 picks and none of them are already
a winnign factor for the Kings.
I go from the 2000's

The good things first:
Kopitar ( It's not really rocket science to pick the best European)
Brown (rock solid pick)
Doughty (again no real skill need to draft him)
Frolov (solid pick)
Visnovsky (A true gem and drafting skill for a round 4 pick)
Cammy (solid 2nd round pick who turns out into top 5 pick)
Simmonds (rock solid 2nd round pick, elite 3rd line grinder)

NO decission right now because of no proof:

Schenn (looks like a 2nd line center and no skill was needed)
Clifford ( i would scratch my head if he really pans out)
Loktionov ( looks like a steal and is a 5th round gem, good job)
Voynov (loooks like a solid pick)
Teubet (looks like a 50/50 chance of hero or bust)
Hickey(same here 50/50 chance of elite or bust)
Moller (shows flashes of skill but imo will not pan out as top 6)

The Bad:

draft 2003: 3 first rounder with 2 busts........
Draft 2002: Holy ****.... complete failure
Draft 2001: Except Cammy in 2nd round complete failure
Draft 2004: These scouts belong to be punished
Draft 2005: beside Kopitar a failure
Draft 2006: two 1st rounders and no one makes the team right now
4 years after the draft


Overall an average job.... imo a little bit to much failure
because we make the obvious drafts we don't get impact players out of the draft.
We have millions of prospect but mostly there are not even 3rd liners.
Just the fact of Kopitar and Doughty makes the + to the C

Kurrilino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2010, 05:39 PM
  #17
etherialone
dialed in your mom
 
etherialone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: The Ether
Country: United Nations
Posts: 12,990
vCash: 500
Kurrillino

How many top five picks has our current scouting staff had?
(you can count them on one and have digits left over)

As to our unproven, most of these players are as unproven as potential stars as they are potential busts and a few of them are first rounders and...top five picks.

As to the busts if you are going to count as far back as 03 why not go back to 67? I mean, if our current staff had nothing to do with drafting the players then how can we judge them for the players success or failure? We can't.

Its not that I think your C is wrong as much as I see it as arbitrary. I also don't see your argument as to why you give them this grade as having a solid foundation.

I think that in order to be fair that you should start by judging our current scouting staff and then if you want to discount the players who have yet to prove themselves at the NHL level then be certain to count the players who were signed or drafted by our current scouting staff who have wether it is on our team or not.

just an opinion

etherialone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2010, 06:47 PM
  #18
Sydor25
LA Kings
 
Sydor25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: North Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 21,828
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Sydor25
It's early on most of the picks, but I gave a solid "B".

For all of those saying that Doughty was a slam dunk, should dig up some old threads. Many people had Bogosian as the safer pick and higher upside. Even at the start of this season there were people talking about how Bogosian should have been picked over Doughty.

Sydor25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2010, 06:50 PM
  #19
JDM
HFB Partner
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Country: United States
Posts: 9,968
vCash: 500
To expand on Sydor's point:

Doughty still needed to be scouted. He still needed to be challenged to lose weight. He still needed to be visited and picked apart as a human being as well as a hockey player.

The scouting staff deserves credit for choosing the right player when nearly everyone had L. Schenn, Bogo and Pietrangelo within a split hair of eachother.

Its obvious NOW.

JDM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2010, 06:57 PM
  #20
kingsfan28
Viva Los Cucarachas!
 
kingsfan28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Earth
Country: United States
Posts: 11,369
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDM View Post
To expand on Sydor's point:

Doughty still needed to be scouted. He still needed to be challenged to lose weight. He still needed to be visited and picked apart as a human being as well as a hockey player.

The scouting staff deserves credit for choosing the right player when nearly everyone had L. Schenn, Bogo and Pietrangelo within a split hair of eachother.

Its obvious NOW.

I think this may be the one intangible that separates DL scouting staff from the previous staffing. This staff seems to really dig in and do their homework that goes way beyond the stats. I was convinced when I read about the Q and A with Doughty.

kingsfan28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2010, 07:07 PM
  #21
William H Bonney
Registered User
 
William H Bonney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Sierra Nevada
Country: United States
Posts: 19,434
vCash: 500
I think one thing to remember is that Myers was considered a bit of a project when he was drafted. He really didn't "breakout" until the WJC 6 months later. It's not like Lombardi and co. passed on what many scouts considered to be a sure bet or anything. It's the same reason John Carlson fell to #27 overall. Carlson's resume consisted of one very good season in the USHL but he was an unknown before that. A lot of scouts weren't convinced yet. Then he went to the OHL after the draft and dominated and Washington knew they had a steal on there hands.

It's a crap shoot. Every team hits and misses but I think overall the current staff has done a very good job. Now we just need to find a Pavelski in the 7th round.

William H Bonney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2010, 07:16 PM
  #22
Sydor25
LA Kings
 
Sydor25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: North Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 21,828
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Sydor25
Quote:
Originally Posted by William H Bonney View Post
It's a crap shoot. Every team hits and misses but I think overall the current staff has done a very good job. Now we just need to find a Pavelski in the 7th round.
Robitaille say hi!

Sydor25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2010, 07:18 PM
  #23
William H Bonney
Registered User
 
William H Bonney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Sierra Nevada
Country: United States
Posts: 19,434
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
Robitaille say hi!
Lace 'em back up Lucky Luc!!

William H Bonney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2010, 07:22 PM
  #24
kingsfan28
Viva Los Cucarachas!
 
kingsfan28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Earth
Country: United States
Posts: 11,369
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by William H Bonney View Post
I think one thing to remember is that Myers was considered a bit of a project when he was drafted. He really didn't "breakout" until the WJC 6 months later. It's not like Lombardi and co. passed on what many scouts considered to be a sure bet or anything. It's the same reason John Carlson fell to #27 overall. Carlson's resume consisted of one very good season in the USHL but he was an unknown before that. A lot of scouts weren't convinced yet. Then he went to the OHL after the draft and dominated and Washington knew they had a steal on there hands.

It's a crap shoot. Every team hits and misses but I think overall the current staff has done a very good job. Now we just need to find a Pavelski in the 7th round.
Very good points, and are often overlooked when the Myer/Tuebert debate is brought up. You could even include Del Zotto into the mix with Carlson too

kingsfan28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2010, 07:25 PM
  #25
RAZZIE King
König von Schaben
 
RAZZIE King's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The Roach Motel
Country: United States
Posts: 15,066
vCash: 500
If you're going PRO scouting...I'd give that a D EASY...

If it's amateur scouting...a solid B...

RAZZIE King is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:22 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.