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"I apologize for questioning you Dean Lombardi"

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Old
05-02-2010, 03:34 PM
  #51
Sydor25
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Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
We got Sully for Demetra.

And we got Johnson (and the russian dman whose name escapes me for the moment) for Belanger and Gleason.
Thanks. Forgot about Sully. Well, Demitra would have left as an UFA anyways.

If Williams gets to play with Kopitar and Kovalchuk, he may be able to get 25 goals next year.

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05-03-2010, 02:48 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by parrotdude View Post
First, apologizing for all of Dean's critics is a **** head move, especially when you proudly drank the kool-aid.

Second, are you claiming that Dean is above criticism? That trading for Cloutier was not a move that should have been criticized?

Third, what success has Dean achieved for his critics to capitulate? Are we a Stanley Cup contender? President's Cup contender? Pacific Division contender? Won a playoff series? Won a playoff game?

The facts are: Dean took over a team that was on par with (or better than) the Coyotes. We are now a team that is worse than the Coyotes.

Reality is we are third in our division and on the bubble of making the playoffs. We have lost seven in a row to a potential playoff match-up. Some teams have rebuilt faster than us (e.g. Avs).

Is the Kings' rebuild truly done? Look at the Blue Jackets postings for last year, the fans were pretty confident their rebuilding days were over too.

Dean's made some pretty good moves and some pretty bad moves. Based upon the Kings' on-ice performance to date, Dean is only an average GM.

--parrotdude
So, you think the Av's rebuilt faster? I'd like to know what your drinking. They have zero depth...1 injury, and they go from a boarderline 8th place team to battling Edmonton. They have more holes than a slice of swiss cheese, in that the only reason they made the playoffs was thanks to a journeyman goaltender. Don't kid yourself.

You bring up the Blue Jackets...what DON'T they have that the Kings do? They have Nash...who else up front? Aside from nobody...Who do they have on defense? Aside from basically nobody. Just like the Av's, they were where they were because of their goaltending, which, as we saw, was a one hit wonder.

The Kings, and Lombardi, have built some SERIOUS depth. Not where they want it to be, but Rome wasn't built overnight.

Some can point to the Ducks. So when Sellane and Neidermeyer retire, what do they do? Keep trying to build through FA? No thanks...that's the NYR model, and it's proven to have never worked, ever.

Patience is a virture most Kings fans don't have, because, well, they either don't understand just how long this can really take, or understandably so, it's been 40+ years, and they are tired of waiting.

Me, it's been 30 years for me, and for the first time in 30 years, I see a management team with an actual plan in place, ownership allowing them to go about their business, and a franchise that is finally moving towards the future at a rapid pace.

Steve Yzerman was drafted in 1983 I believe, was a rookie in 1984. The Wings didn't start winning until the early 90's. Guess what...it takes time. Since the Wings began winning in the early 90's, they haven't stopped. Why? Draft, develop, plug where needed. You may not win on a yearly basis, but you will be involved on a yearly basis. That's the goal.

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05-03-2010, 03:57 PM
  #53
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nice post, Mr. Brett

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05-03-2010, 06:19 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by JT Dutch View Post


... This guy says hi from the second round of the playoffs, where his 6 goals and 11 points leads his team.

Has Lombardi reserved his tee times yet? Well done, Dean.
That's nice. Montreal isn't winning a cup this season and Cammalleri isn't leading them to one anytime in the near or even distant future. But you keep right on throwing those red herrings out there, it's what you do best, especially in regards to any discussion involving the job Lombardi has done with this team.

Please tell us now oh wise one that you see Montreal's future success as being greater than that of the Kings over the next five or six seasons.

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05-03-2010, 07:07 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
That's nice. Montreal isn't winning a cup this season and Cammalleri isn't leading them to one anytime in the near or even distant future. But you keep right on throwing those red herrings out there, it's what you do best, especially in regards to any discussion involving the job Lombardi has done with this team.

Please tell us now oh wise one that you see Montreal's future success as being greater than that of the Kings over the next five or six seasons.
You don't know how far Halak's goaltending could take them.

about who's gonna be better in the next 5 years, who knows. Injuries could happen and other things can happen, please don't act as if success is guaranteed to us. we could very well not make the playoffs with an injury to someone like Drew or never get out of the first round.

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05-03-2010, 07:22 PM
  #56
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Why can't there just be an agreement right down the middle with regards to Cammy?

I understand why he was traded. I'm not interested in harping those reasons. If you watched Cammy's last season with the Kings, he was personally ready to move on, and it has worked out for him very nicely. I love Cammy. I wish he was still here. The Kings could use him.

The fact that he isn't here though is really not that big of a deal come next season, now that he is going to be replaced by whoever DL gets to score goals from the wing.

Cammy's development simply did not time out with the rebuild.

Its not that Cammy isn't worth that 5 mill. He is.

Its not that the 5 mill couldn't work with our salary structure. It could.

It IS that when it was time to pay Cammy, he would have taken up too much space for where the rebuild was according to DL's plan, which is to build from the back out. As with the team, the salary must be structure in a similar manner. Plan on who you are going to pay in goal, then on D, then at center, and only then can you decide where and how much money to throw at a wing.

And before you say that we got and are paying Smyth MORE money before giving Quick/Bernier/Doughty/Johnson their significant raises, consider that while Cammy would score goals, and may net Kopi some extra assists, Cammy would absolutely not have been able to teach Kopitar the essentials he has learned from Smyth, which is what makes his high cap hit acceptable.

Its old news.

Be happy for Cammy. Understand why he was traded. Look forward to his replacement. Get over it.

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05-03-2010, 07:22 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
That's nice. Montreal isn't winning a cup this season and Cammalleri isn't leading them to one anytime in the near or even distant future. .
Never say that.

Any of the 8 teams left could win.

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Old
05-03-2010, 07:32 PM
  #58
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Coming from someone who think DL has been fantastic, he's also had a nice bonus that was never "planned" in Drew Doughty.

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05-03-2010, 07:34 PM
  #59
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Applying what's happening this year to what happened two years ago is not my idea of a sound argument.

Neither Lombardi nor Cammalleri were interested in continuing in LA. Cammalleri wanted to play for a Canadian team and get his payday. Dean felt he was overvalued. Off-ice friction didn't help matters.

Add to that the fact that the Kings were terrible when his payday came. Cammalleri wasn't going to stay here and play for a losing team, so bait was cut and that was that.

The only way the Kings were going to be able to attract big free agents is by icing a playoff team. Since no top talent wanted to play for a loser, the Kings had to build from within. It took a few years for the homegrown talent to produce, but now that they have done that, it's a whole different ball game for Dean this off-season.

Dean will have the pick of the litter. There isn't a player on earth who wouldn't want to play for the Kings now (save for Cammalleri ). Would a guy like Cammalleri help? Yes. Are there even better options available this off-season? Yes. Would most top free agents be willing to sign and play for the Kings now? Absolutely.

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05-03-2010, 07:44 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by TonySCV View Post
Applying what's happening this year to what happened two years ago is not my idea of a sound argument.

Neither Lombardi nor Cammalleri were interested in continuing in LA. Cammalleri wanted to play for a Canadian team and get his payday. Dean felt he was overvalued. Off-ice friction didn't help matters.

Add to that the fact that the Kings were terrible when his payday came. Cammalleri wasn't going to stay here and play for a losing team, so bait was cut and that was that.

The only way the Kings were going to be able to attract big free agents is by icing a playoff team. Since no top talent wanted to play for a loser, the Kings had to build from within. It took a few years for the homegrown talent to produce, but now that they have done that, it's a whole different ball game for Dean this off-season.

Dean will have the pick of the litter. There isn't a player on earth who wouldn't want to play for the Kings now (save for Cammalleri ). Would a guy like Cammalleri help? Yes. Are there even better options available this off-season? Yes. Would most top free agents be willing to sign and play for the Kings now? Absolutely.
How do you guys know this?? Why do you guys talk as if its a fact?? MONEY talks and i dont see DL giving out the contracts it would take to get a player like Kovy. overpay utility players sure.

I just dont understand where you guys get it from. i know youre excited about what the team did this year but i dont see anything different. we still have the same coach we had last year with the same system and same GM. If they weren't able to get a player like Gaborik last year with his injury issues i see no reason to believe we'll sign Kovy who every team will attempt to sign.

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05-03-2010, 07:48 PM
  #61
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How do you guys know this?? Why do you guys talk as if its a fact?? MONEY talks

I just dont understand where you guys get it from. i know youre excited about what the team did this year but i dont see anything different. we still have the same coach we had last year with the same system and same GM. If they weren't able to get a player like Gaborik last year with his injury issues i see no reason to believe we'll sign Kovy who every team will attempt to sign.
Really?

You think players only care about money. That going to a playoff team means nothing to them?

Its a HUGE difference. Its the biggest difference. Money only talks loudest to players who don't particularly care about winning, the kind of player DL will never sign even if he had a $100 million cap to play with.

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05-03-2010, 07:57 PM
  #62
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there are 15 other playoff teams, we arent the only ones. the past couple of years have proven that a team can rebound from a non playoff year (bottom 5) to a good season and a playoff berth. PHX looks just as appealing, the Blues, Canes, Ducks you could go on and on.

I just don't see what we offer thats so special. to me it seems that its just wishful thinking while wearing purple tinted glasses


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05-03-2010, 08:35 PM
  #63
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there are 15 other playoff teams, we arent the only ones. the past couple of years have proven that a team can rebound from a non playoff year (bottom 5) to a good season and a playoff berth. PHX looks just as appealing, the Blues, Canes, Ducks you could go on and on.

I just don't see what we offer thats so special. to me it seems that its just wishful thinking while wearing purple tinted glasses
A team on the rise.

Detroit is a playoff team. On the decline. (I hope...)

Devils are a playoff team that could very well go through a big rebuild in the coming years.

Sharks are a playoff team that (unless something changes this year), can't seem to take the next step.

Several other teams are playoffs team with very limited cap space.

There are differences.

No one is claiming the Kings are the only option, or the best option, just that whereas in prior years when we had to way overpay to get a UFA to want to play here, we are now competitive in the market. Meaning that barring individual particulars a player has in his preferences, there is nothing stopping a player from signing a competitive deal here.

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05-03-2010, 08:55 PM
  #64
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A team on the rise.

Detroit is a playoff team. On the decline. (I hope...)

Devils are a playoff team that could very well go through a big rebuild in the coming years.

Sharks are a playoff team that (unless something changes this year), can't seem to take the next step.

Several other teams are playoffs team with very limited cap space.

There are differences.

No one is claiming the Kings are the only option, or the best option, just that whereas in prior years when we had to way overpay to get a UFA to want to play here, we are now competitive in the market. Meaning that barring individual particulars a player has in his preferences, there is nothing stopping a player from signing a competitive deal here.
good points, i hope we can make a big splash. would be fun to have a player like Kovy wearing a crown.

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05-03-2010, 09:01 PM
  #65
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You don't know how far Halak's goaltending could take them.

about who's gonna be better in the next 5 years, who knows. Injuries could happen and other things can happen, please don't act as if success is guaranteed to us. we could very well not make the playoffs with an injury to someone like Drew or never get out of the first round.
Yes, anything can happen. The sun could go dark or supernova and make the whole argument irrelevant. The point is as things stand today, I like the Kings chances of winning a Stanley Cup in the next 5 years a hell of a lot more than the Montreal Canadiens chances.

BTW, JDM and Tony made some excellent points.

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05-03-2010, 10:03 PM
  #66
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Its a HUGE difference. Its the biggest difference. Money only talks loudest to players who don't particularly care about winning, the kind of player DL will never sign even if he had a $100 million cap to play with.
See the Detroit Wed Wings... who can sign players to below market value contracts because the players all want to play for a winning franchise. They can also be picky about who they sign because there are far more players that want to play for Detroit than there are roster spots available.

It's no surprise they're in the playoffs every single year for the last 20 and contenting for a Cup in most of those years. Lombardi is trying to replicate that environment in LA.

- Hit doubles, triples and home runs at the draft.
- Player development focus from the second they are drafted
- Jettison higher priced, aging talent with cheaper homegrown talent that can produce at the same (or higher) level.

Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

We're already seeing benefits of that in DL year 4. Players from Manchester drop in to the NHL club without missing a beat. That alone is a significant step in the right direction. What remains is for DL to plug the remaining holes. As of today, the Kings are still a little thin on depth in certain spots. In another couple of years there should be a steady pipeline of prospects at every position.

Free agency is still an important part of filling out a winning team, but it's the homegrown guys that are going to have the strongest will and desire to win a Cup here... the sooner this team is made up mostly of Kings drafted and developed talent, the closer the team will be to winning a Cup. There needs to be enough of them on the team to pull the cart themselves. Everyone else will be supporting cast along for the ride.

Detroit had 17 players on this year's roster at one point or another that were either drafted by the Wings or signed by the Wings as undrafted free agents. Couple that with the fact that they are SO deep with homegrown talent, not ONE player Detroit has drafted in the last four years has played a single game for the Wings yet. That is how it's done.

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05-03-2010, 10:04 PM
  #67
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That's nice. Montreal isn't winning a cup this season and Cammalleri isn't leading them to one anytime in the near or even distant future. But you keep right on throwing those red herrings out there, it's what you do best, especially in regards to any discussion involving the job Lombardi has done with this team.
... LOL. Whatever man. I've pointed out Lombardi's good moves as well as his bad ones, whereas I've never heard you criticize the man at all. It's pretty sad that you and others have to resort to tired DeanSpin like "Cammalleri didn't want to play here, he wanted this amount, and that amount, and he's greedy, and he's selfish" when it was obvious to anyone watching objectively or anyone who wasn't a Kings fan that Lombardi simply didn't want Cammalleri here. And now, what you see is a player who's shoving Lombardi's assessment of him right back down his throat. Cover your eyes and your ears if it bothers you.

And your comment of how a team tied 1-1 and going home in the second round "isn't winning a cup this season or the near future" shows pretty clearly just how little you know about how the playoffs work. The Canadiens have a hot goalie and a hot goal scorer, and they just knocked off the top seed in their conference. Their chances are as strong as anyone's to win it all, and it's sad that despite your years of watching the game, you can't or won't believe that.


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05-03-2010, 10:20 PM
  #68
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... LOL. Whatever man. I've pointed out Lombardi's good moves as well as his bad ones, whereas I've never heard you criticize the man at all. It's pretty sad that you and others have to resort to tired DeanSpin like "Cammalleri didn't want to play here, he wanted this amount, and that amount, and he's greedy, and he's selfish" when it was obvious to anyone watching objectively or anyone who wasn't a Kings fan that Lombardi simply didn't want Cammalleri here. And now, what you see is a player who's shoving Lombardi's assessment of him right back down his throat. Cover your eyes and your ears if it bothers you.

And your comment of how a team tied 1-1 and going home in the second round "isn't winning a cup this season or the near future" shows pretty clearly just how little you know about how the playoffs work. The Canadiens have a hot goalie and a hot goal scorer, and they just knocked off the top seed in their conference. Their chances are as strong as anyone's to win it all, and it's sad that despite your years of watching the game, you can't or won't believe that.
LOL, sure JT whatever you say. The simple truth is the Canadiens chances of winning it this year or any year in the near future are not as strong as any of the real top contenders or up and coming teams. Despite your years of watching the game I am amazed that you can't admit that. Your belief that once a team is in the playoffs anything can happen is exactly the kind of thinking that mired the Kings franchise in mediocrity for so many years.

Regarding critcism of Lombardi, I haven't liked every move especially the re-signing of the ultra-selfish Rob Blake, the Cloutier extension, and waiting too long to trade Cammalleri, but overall his ability to build an organization's infrastructure from the ground up is pretty damn good and it is starting to pay off.

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05-03-2010, 11:01 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by JT Dutch View Post
I've pointed out Lombardi's good moves as well as his bad ones
LOL... oh come on. When there is a thread that involves a player vs. management, you take the players side EVERY time.

I tell you what... I'll put my money where my mouth is.

2 Kings tickets to a regular season game next season says you can't produce either of the following:

ONE post in a player vs. management thread in this forum where you take management's side.

TWO posts you've written in this forum where you specifically praise or compliment Lombardi by name for anything.

Just post a link to the posts here. This forum's archives go back 7 years. I'll happily nut up and fork over the tickets if you can find more than one. It'll be vs. a decent team on a weekend game too.

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05-03-2010, 11:03 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by TonySCV View Post
LOL... oh come on. When there is a thread that involves a player vs. management, you take the players side EVERY time.

I tell you what... I'll put my money where my mouth is.

2 Kings tickets to a regular season game next season says you can't produce either of the following:

ONE post in a player vs. management thread in this forum where you take management's side.

TWO posts you've written in this forum where you specifically praise or compliment Lombardi by name for anything.

Just post a link to the posts here. This forum's archives go back 7 years. I'll happily nut up and fork over the tickets if you can find more than one. It'll be vs. a decent team on a weekend game too.
...is this offer good for anyone that can find the requested posts from JT Dutch? How about airfair from DFW?

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05-03-2010, 11:06 PM
  #71
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...is this offer good for anyone that can find the requested posts from JT Dutch? How about airfair from DFW?
Hey now... my last name isn't Rockefeller. You can help him look though.

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05-03-2010, 11:14 PM
  #72
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Hey now... my last name isn't Rockefeller. You can help him look though.
...meh, if I don't get the tickets, why would I help? And the Hawks just made it interesting...

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05-03-2010, 11:45 PM
  #73
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Cinderella never wins...

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05-03-2010, 11:46 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by TonySCV View Post
ONE post in a player vs. management thread in this forum where you take management's side.

TWO posts you've written in this forum where you specifically praise or compliment Lombardi by name for anything.
... Well, as for your second point, I did post in the "rate Murray and Lombardi" thread like a lot of people, and specifically pointed out the areas where he did well and did poorly.

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=2...6&postcount=19

And I'm pretty sure I complimented the Modin pickup. Here that is.

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=2...7&postcount=89

As for your "player V management" point ... how many of those have really occured -- Cammalleri? Blake? So ... two, I guess? Whatever, guilty as charged; Dean's 0 for 2 in my view. Unless you count Johnson too? Should I bash Johnson because Lombardi talked **** on his college program? Probably not, huh?

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05-03-2010, 11:57 PM
  #75
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LOL... oh come on. When there is a thread that involves a player vs. management, you take the players side EVERY time.

I tell you what... I'll put my money where my mouth is.

2 Kings tickets to a regular season game next season says you can't produce either of the following:

ONE post in a player vs. management thread in this forum where you take management's side.

TWO posts you've written in this forum where you specifically praise or compliment Lombardi by name for anything.

Just post a link to the posts here. This forum's archives go back 7 years. I'll happily nut up and fork over the tickets if you can find more than one. It'll be vs. a decent team on a weekend game too.
Man, you will give your tickets to anybody. First, to Canuck fans during the playoffs (yeah, bet you thought we wouldn't nice huh?) and now this...

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