So.... Malhotra, Nichol, Umberger and Ortmeyer = superficial intensity
but Marleau = deep seated intensity???? : laugh:
No. But, I do mistrust your judgment because of wild misinterpretations such as this one.
Think of the kind of intensity that Pavs has where it doesn't stop when the playoffs end. Where he goes and works his tail off all summer trying to improve one or more areas of his game. Non-stop. How do you think Crosby got as good as he is? Do you think Bell had intensity? That is a really good example.
I'm sorry but this isn't NHL11. I don't want to be the Calgary Flames or Chicago Blackhawks. I think Marleau and Nabby are playing well, but CAP ROOM is CAP ROOM. There will be some decent goalies on the market and we can get someone to replace Nabby for less. I would trade BOTH Marleau and Nabby for draft picks/decent players to fill the void. Fortunately the season isn't over for us. I truly believe we shouldn't sweat the offseason stuff until we're out or we're raising the cup!!!
you clearly have not read what I wrote.
and yeah I do not play video games, so I do not base anthing on games, but reality as it is now. I am making a point, that we cannot afford the talent we have and still sign a d-man to replace blake. I did not start this thread I am just contributing my thoughts.
The playoffs are not over, great.
Players values will change as we go forward, we know.
I merely offered the best case scenario for the sharks and the realistic scenario as it stands now.
Is this thread premature, yes.
But, this is mathematical, we will lose 1 huge player or 2 players that matter no matter what.
In reality our free agents could reasonably ask for this, either with us or on another team:
FORWARDS * Patrick Marleau ($7.500m)
DEFENSEMEN
Dan Boyle ($6.667m) / Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($3.100m)
Douglas Murray ($2.500m) / Kent Huskins ($1.700m)
* Niclas Wallin ($1.250m) / Jason Demers ($0.543m)
GOALTENDERS
* Evgeni Nabokov ($6.000m) / Thomas Greiss ($0.550m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS
ROSTER: 21; PAYROLL: $63.083m; CAP ROOM: $-5.568m BONUSES: $0.715m
We may have to dump 2 players to get a top d-man and under the cap.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tarlinian
DEFENSEMEN
Dan Boyle ($6.667m) / Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($3.100m)
* Rob Blake ($2.500m) / Kent Huskins ($1.700m)
Jason Demers ($0.543m) / Mike Moore ($0.512m)
GOALTENDERS
* Dan Ellis ($2.000m) / Thomas Greiss ($0.550m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS
ROSTER: 21; PAYROLL: $57.257m; CAP ROOM: $0.473m BONUSES: $0.930m
Both of these defensive corps are god awful. 7,5 for Patty? Hilarious.
It begs the question, why the heck we are running polls about the offseason when we're 2-0 up in the 2nd round?!...
But to play along, I'd say we need to keep Marleau - purely from an asset perspective. Trade and you get something back - let them walk in UFA and it's a 'wasted asset'.
I think we need to sit tight and see where this playoff series goes first. Sure, Pavs is garnering a nice pay rise right now but at the same time, Marleau's offseason is causing his negotiation position to plummet. Regular season means little if you perform a disappearing act in the postseason.
If this team goes to the Stanley cup finals, I don't think much tweaking will be done at all to our forward corps.
Agreed. When the season is ended, we can talk about next year. I want to savor a team that is for the first time since .... forever .... playing to their expectations.
Do you really think the drop-off between Moore and Murray is that much? I don't really think so. I think most Worcester folks would claim he's their best defensive defenseman.
Boyle-Moore
Vlasic-Blake
Huskins-Demers
That wouldn't be too bad a set of defensive pairings with some of Blake's shifts being taken by Demers would not be too bad. (The Sharks are going to be forced to have Moore on the big club two seasons from now, his contract for that year is one-way.)
Do you really think the drop-off between Moore and Murray is that much? I don't really think so. I think most Worcester folks would claim he's their best defensive defenseman.
Boyle-Moore
Vlasic-Blake
Huskins-Demers
That wouldn't be too bad a set of defensive pairings with some of Blake's shifts being taken by Demers would not be too bad. (The Sharks are going to be forced to have Moore on the big club two seasons from now, his contract for that year is one-way.)
Don't mind Moore taking Murray's spot that much.
I don't like the lack of a real #2/3 dman in that lineup. Blake won't be able to fill that consistently next year and Vlasic isn't ready to be a #2, IMO.
Seriously, I can't believe someone voted for Pavs to go in this poll.
:/
Well to be fair, the poster is an Obsessed Sharks Fan. :
Quote:
Do you really think the drop-off between Moore and Murray is that much? I don't really think so. I think most Worcester folks would claim he's their best defensive defenseman.
Boyle-Moore
Vlasic-Blake
Huskins-Demers
That wouldn't be too bad a set of defensive pairings with some of Blake's shifts being taken by Demers would not be too bad. (The Sharks are going to be forced to have Moore on the big club two seasons from now, his contract for that year is one-way.)
I want to believe in Jason Demers over an 82 game season, but I can't. The kid has played well during the post season thus far, but during the regular season he goes through lapses where he's skating out of his assignment. There's a reason he was sent down multiple times this season.
Mike Moore may be a solid defenseman in the NHL, but he hasn't played in the NHL with any regularity. There will be an adjustment curve. He will make mistakes. To put him into a top 4 role would be a mistake.
Well to be fair, the poster is an Obsessed Sharks Fan. :
I want to believe in Jason Demers over an 82 game season, but I can't. The kid has played well during the post season thus far, but during the regular season he goes through lapses where he's skating out of his assignment. There's a reason he was sent down multiple times this season.
Mike Moore may be a solid defenseman in the NHL, but he hasn't played in the NHL with any regularity. There will be an adjustment curve. He will make mistakes. To put him into a top 4 role would be a mistake.
Seto was sent down a few times a couple years ago too. He wasn't quite ready. Demers will be fine for a full season next year IMO. Would I want to trust him to a full time #4? That I'm not quite sold on yet.
__________________
History does not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.
thanks for proving my point, now go read what I wrote in the 1st place.:sar casm:
You said
Quote:
In reality our free agents could reasonably ask for this, either with us or on another team:
Proving your point? No. If you want to be a pedant and play an argument of semantics, Patrick Marleau could technically ask for 7.5 million from the Sharks, but he won't get it. He could also ask for a funny balloon hat to wear during negotiations. He could also recite Latin while juggling dead fish.
You also said
Quote:
ok, I will hold this quote for later.
Unless patty blows up in the playoffs, my prediction is exactly this.
patty signs in the east for 7.5 and we have cap room.
If there is a bidding war, it might get that high, not likely though. He won't resign in San Jose for that much, which is what can be inferred from your breakdown post. The idea of 7.5m in teal is hilarious.
So no, you aren't proving your point. Far from it, in fact.
You mean outside help as in free agency? So if we happen to sign someone who hasn't played on the Sharks a certain number of seasons, we won't be contenders that year?
And because Crosby and Datsyuk won the cup, that automatically bumps them ahead of Thornton?
Setoguchi (speedy winger) can become a consistent 30+ goal scorer, but we still need Marleau on the team because it's tough to find a speedy winger?
The reason I have so many questions is because I don't know what the point of your response is. Your argument isn't very clear to me.
Any team in the league would take Datsyuk or Crosby over Thornton. Hell, I'd take those trades in a direct swap. Crosby goes without saying, but I'd also take Datsyuk over Joe.
How do we know Setoguchi can become a consistent 30+ goal scorer? He's talented, but he has also been inconsistent. 30 goals is a lot of goals. Scoring that many goals consistently is pretty rare. I don't think Seto has proved this type of skill yet.
My heart says I want Marleau to stay, although these playoffs are painful because he really is digging himself a hole. My head says he's the easy choice to let walk.
But, as another poster said, the Cup changes everything. We won't win the cup without Marleau contributing in points and intangibles, plain and simple. And if we get to the finals, that means it's likely we'll move pieces around to try to keep him, even if it means our D is weak or we see one of our RFA's walk for a contract (seto).
I think it's hilarious that people lambaste Marleau and give a pass to Heatley. Blast Marleau and applaud Heatley's board work all you want but Marleau is trusted in all situations even now. Heatley is not. I would let Heatley go over anyone else with the exception of Nabokov. We can get away with going cheaper in net. I don't think this team can afford to lose Pavs, Seto, or Marleau.
Proving your point? No. If you want to be a pedant and play an argument of semantics, Patrick Marleau could technically ask for 7.5 million from the Sharks, but he won't get it. He could also ask for a funny balloon hat to wear during negotiations. He could also recite Latin while juggling dead fish.
You also said
If there is a bidding war, it might get that high, not likely though. He won't resign in San Jose for that much, which is what can be inferred from your breakdown post. The idea of 7.5m in teal is hilarious.
So no, you aren't proving your point. Far from it, in fact.
my initial post was based on the fact that we cannot resign everyone. And I listed the best case scenario, as if everyone signed home town deal, which in reality will not happen. I then followed up with a post of what players will be looking for in reality.
I clearly said in the top of the post "In reality our free agents could reasonably ask for this, either with us or on another team: "
so who is playing the game of semantics mr. bridge?
Edit: my whole point of these posts is to say that we cannot resign these players, one-two have to go regardless. I am starting to wonder what your point is???
Any team in the league would take Datsyuk or Crosby over Thornton. Hell, I'd take those trades in a direct swap. Crosby goes without saying, but I'd also take Datsyuk over Joe.
How do we know Setoguchi can become a consistent 30+ goal scorer? He's talented, but he has also been inconsistent. 30 goals is a lot of goals. Scoring that many goals consistently is pretty rare. I don't think Seto has proved this type of skill yet.
My heart says I want Marleau to stay, although these playoffs are painful because he really is digging himself a hole. My head says he's the easy choice to let walk.
But, as another poster said, the Cup changes everything. We won't win the cup without Marleau contributing in points and intangibles, plain and simple. And if we get to the finals, that means it's likely we'll move pieces around to try to keep him, even if it means our D is weak or we see one of our RFA's walk for a contract (seto).
He's only 22, and gets 20 goals on the second line. He's shown he can get 30+ on a line with thornton. He's also shown that when he's not scoring he's hitting, working hard, and moving his feet. I would take seto over marleau simply because seto's age gives him potential to be even more than a 30 goal scorer and because he'd get a cheaper contract(meaning we could potentially resign pavs+seto for the price of marleau).
I think unless marleau starts working his ass off every shift and producing, seto deserves to stay with the team much more than marleau does.
Any team in the league would take Datsyuk or Crosby over Thornton. Hell, I'd take those trades in a direct swap. Crosby goes without saying, but I'd also take Datsyuk over Joe.
How do we know Setoguchi can become a consistent 30+ goal scorer? He's talented, but he has also been inconsistent. 30 goals is a lot of goals. Scoring that many goals consistently is pretty rare. I don't think Seto has proved this type of skill yet.
My heart says I want Marleau to stay, although these playoffs are painful because he really is digging himself a hole. My head says he's the easy choice to let walk.
But, as another poster said, the Cup changes everything. We won't win the cup without Marleau contributing in points and intangibles, plain and simple. And if we get to the finals, that means it's likely we'll move pieces around to try to keep him, even if it means our D is weak or we see one of our RFA's walk for a contract (seto).
Like GuitarByte said about Setoguchi, except it was more like 20 goals on the 2nd/3rd lines. For a good portion of the season he was struggling (and yes that is expected for any player his age), yet he manages to pull off a decent season.
The reason San Jose is deadly is because we are stacked on offense. Heatley, Clowe, Setoguchi, Couture, and McGinn can easily (yes I say with a lot of confidence...easily) make up for Marleau's production.
Hell if you want a little bit of padding, sign someone like Nolan, Comrie, or Morrison.
On a side note, let Nabby walk and sign Toskala. He's a good goaltender that was caught in a HORRIBLE system. Even good goalies can have their psyches messed up. I'm sure he'd be willing to sign a 2/2.5 mil for a one year contract.
The reason San Jose is deadly is because we are stacked on offense. Heatley, Clowe, Setoguchi, Couture, and McGinn can easily (yes I say with a lot of confidence...easily) make up for Marleau's production.
You can never easily replace 44 goals and over a point per game. But this is going to turn into a semantic debate where I don't think losing that production is a small deal and you think it is easily overcome.
Similar response to both of your Setoguchi points. One season of high goalscoring with Joe, followed by a season of mediocre and inconsistent goalscoring, doesn't prove to me that Setoguchi can replace Marleau's production or consistently score 30 goals over a season.
Hell, Cheechoo had better production on an arguably less talented 3rd line.
Guys seto's age who are scoring 30 goals consistently? Patrick Kane had his first 30-goal season this year. Out of three. But people know/think he'll keep that pace up. Setoguchi is no Kane. Just one example.
I'm sorry but this isn't NHL11. I don't want to be the Calgary Flames or Chicago Blackhawks. I think Marleau and Nabby are playing well, but CAP ROOM is CAP ROOM. 
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