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OT: take a guess what Atlanta lost this season

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05-03-2010, 10:40 PM
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Dagoon44
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OT: take a guess what Atlanta lost this season

Speaking to a good friend of mine that is a big time hockey guy at ESPN and he told me that the Thrashers had a organizational meeting this week with Bettman and the NHL came in thinking they would be told of a 25-30 million dollar operational lose. Don Waddell informed the commish they had lost get ready for this 80 million dollars this 09-10 season. They had games where less then 3000 paid fans showed up and season tickets were down 40% from the year before. This leads me to ask how many other teams are in this kind of trouble? and when is bettman going to wake up and start disbanding teams.

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05-03-2010, 10:59 PM
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BrandNewDream
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
Speaking to a good friend of mine that is a big time hockey guy at ESPN and he told me that the Thrashers had a organizational meeting this week with Bettman and the NHL came in thinking they would be told of a 25-30 million dollar operational lose. Don Waddell informed the commish they had lost get ready for this 80 million dollars this 09-10 season. They had games where less then 3000 paid fans showed up and season tickets were down 40% from the year before. This leads me to ask how many other teams are in this kind of trouble? and when is bettman going to wake up and start disbanding teams.
How the ******* is this possible? I mean, really. They paid just under $50m in salary (nhlnumbers.com). Say that their staff was paid a total of $5m (which is probably generous...that's 50 employees at $100k each.) That's $55m. So, across 41 home dates, they lost $800k or so per home date? Hard to believe, based on the numbers alone.

Let's say the Rangers even out before they make the playoffs. $57.6m in salaries on the ice alone. Divide that by 41, that's $1.4m per home date, roughly. I know they don't make that per date, but considering TV contracts, corporate sponsorships, etc. etc. is $80m even reachable? Atlanta's total expenses would have to be around $90-95m for the year. Seems high to me. The ownership group owns the arena, don't they?

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05-03-2010, 11:02 PM
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Both Thrashers and Hawks lose money

The owners own the stadium though so in end they make alot of profit

41 home games for each + concerts = In end a large profit

So while the Thrashers and Hawks lose money the owners still make money because that is 81 dates in which arena is booked

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05-03-2010, 11:10 PM
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i wonder if they made any money during our playoff series on 07

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05-03-2010, 11:18 PM
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80 million is way too much.. i dont buy that for a second

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05-03-2010, 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by trueblue9441 View Post
80 million is way too much.. i dont buy that for a second
agreed.

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05-03-2010, 11:51 PM
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The Islanders had some big time issues and I think they "only" lost like $15 million. There is no way in hell they lost $80 million. If they did they would be in worse shape then the 'Yotes and the league would be looking for options to move the team to ASAP.

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05-03-2010, 11:52 PM
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I don't see how this is possible unless the Thrashers are playing accounting games. Which is entirely possible; athletic team ownership groups tend to use accounting formats that show higher losses than are actually incurred across the whole organization. It is all about how you associate costs & revenues to the team. For instance, attributing all arena costs to the team when it is shared with other events...

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05-03-2010, 11:57 PM
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Absolutely impossible they lost $80 mil; the franchise itself is worth about $120 mil.

Maybe between amortiziation and depreciation they can show $80 million in losses (and I doubt even that to be possible) but in terms of their EBITA, I doubt they had substantial losses. The gentlemen that run these franchises are good businessmen, they would not hang around an investment that hemorrhages cash.

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05-04-2010, 12:15 AM
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http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/31/...rs_317422.html

According to Forbes, the Thrashers' operational losses were $1.8 million last season. I can't imagine that there would be such a significant jump in one year. Even $25-30 million seems high.

The Thrashers are valued at $143 million. I bet their losses are a lot closer to $8 million than $80 million.

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05-04-2010, 12:22 AM
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NYR Sting
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I'm just waiting for him to smash a chair over someone, reveal a Devils t-shirt, and start cutting a wrestling promo.

This sounds absolutely ridiculous, but I actually hope it's true. That would be very funny. Can't imagine it is, though.

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05-04-2010, 12:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trueblue9441 View Post
80 million is way too much.. i dont buy that for a second

take away a '0' and it's probably right.

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05-04-2010, 12:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/31/...rs_317422.html

According to Forbes, the Thrashers' operational losses were $1.8 million last season. I can't imagine that there would be such a significant jump in one year. Even $25-30 million seems high.

The Thrashers are valued at $143 million. I bet their losses are a lot closer to $8 million than $80 million.
So what the opening poster wants us to believe is that the Atlanta Thrashers lost $62 Million more than last season?

Get real. What a ridiculous and erroneous claim that they lost $80,000,000 in one year.

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05-04-2010, 01:56 AM
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Inferno
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Originally Posted by The Rainbow Express View Post
So what the opening poster wants us to believe is that the Atlanta Thrashers lost $62 Million more than last season?

Get real. What a ridiculous and erroneous claim that they lost $80,000,000 in one year.
well, i would imagine their payroll was higher for the bulk of the season, with Kovalchuk, Antropov and Kubina all on the payroll, but yes, 80 million dollars or whatever he said is ridiculous.

ive been to about a half dozen thrasher games this season, and there are never 3,000 paid people, thats an absurd number. the actual number is probably closer to about 12,000-13,000 per game. about 10-40% of those are away team fans, depending on which team (Rangers, Red Wings, Flyers, etc all have way more fans than teams like Nashville and Columbus) for a typical game even though I get my tickets for free (they are paid for, my friends almost always have extras, and i like to sit by my friends, even if they are thrasher fans ), but i still spend about 30 bucks on food, parking, etc

assuming the typical fan spends say 100 bucks, including tickets (im guesstimating, and probably quite low when you factor in club seats) 100 x 12,000 x 41 = 49.2 Million dollars. The Thrashers payroll, according to nhlnumbers.com was 51.266 million.

Now, adding in payroll to non players, whatever fees they have associated with the Chicago Wolves, etc, i'm sure you can easily add in another 10 million dollars in expenses. So they probably lost something like 12 million bucks or so.

80 million? I find it hard to believe that the 5 lowest grossing teams in the league lost a combined 80 million last season.

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05-04-2010, 05:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
well, i would imagine their payroll was higher for the bulk of the season, with Kovalchuk, Antropov and Kubina all on the payroll, but yes, 80 million dollars or whatever he said is ridiculous.

ive been to about a half dozen thrasher games this season, and there are never 3,000 paid people, thats an absurd number. the actual number is probably closer to about 12,000-13,000 per game. about 10-40% of those are away team fans, depending on which team (Rangers, Red Wings, Flyers, etc all have way more fans than teams like Nashville and Columbus) for a typical game even though I get my tickets for free (they are paid for, my friends almost always have extras, and i like to sit by my friends, even if they are thrasher fans ), but i still spend about 30 bucks on food, parking, etc

assuming the typical fan spends say 100 bucks, including tickets (im guesstimating, and probably quite low when you factor in club seats) 100 x 12,000 x 41 = 49.2 Million dollars. The Thrashers payroll, according to nhlnumbers.com was 51.266 million.

Now, adding in payroll to non players, whatever fees they have associated with the Chicago Wolves, etc, i'm sure you can easily add in another 10 million dollars in expenses. So they probably lost something like 12 million bucks or so.

80 million? I find it hard to believe that the 5 lowest grossing teams in the league lost a combined 80 million last season.
I dunno there.

I've seen clips of games where the seats along the glass were mostly empty. I've always wondered how many actually showed up.

3K may be low, but 12K seems a bit high as well

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05-04-2010, 06:20 AM
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*If* that is the actually number they lost, there is a catch somewhere. Like the parent company bought 7 corporate jets and logged it in the Thrasher's expense paid books. That's not to say that it isn't a bad franchise and it shouldn't be cut away like a cancer.

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05-04-2010, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Khelvan View Post
I don't see how this is possible unless the Thrashers are playing accounting games. Which is entirely possible; athletic team ownership groups tend to use accounting formats that show higher losses than are actually incurred across the whole organization. It is all about how you associate costs & revenues to the team. For instance, attributing all arena costs to the team when it is shared with other events...
Exactly what I was thinking. Also all concessions sales and parking revenue, etc, not being shown as revenue for the team, but it still goes into the owners pockets and they make money because of the team.

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05-04-2010, 08:18 AM
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Get rid of the 6 poorest teams and abolish the friggin salary cap. It's a FAILURE.

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05-04-2010, 08:33 AM
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to address a few points from a couple of you haters. The numbers can be fudged to show whatever ammount of money you want as a owner. The NHL teams make money off season tickets. The Atlanta team had a base of 3000 season ticket holders. They don't have a solid tv deal. They lose on saleries and don't forget travel

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05-04-2010, 08:49 AM
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BrandNewDream
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
to address a few points from a couple of you haters. The numbers can be fudged to show whatever ammount of money you want as a owner. The NHL teams make money off season tickets. The Atlanta team had a base of 3000 season ticket holders. They don't have a solid tv deal. They lose on saleries and don't forget travel
Those have been addressed, and like others have posted, the entire team's operating expenses would have to be around 95 million for them to lose 80 million. Unlikely, save for funny accounting.

Regardless of their TV deal, those ads around the boards, on the ice, and on the arena walls bring in revenue. I, for one, am not buying it. Sorry for "hating".

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05-04-2010, 08:58 AM
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80 mil? LMAO.

Not possible.

What's the saying? Every once in a while the blind squirrel will find an acorn?

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05-04-2010, 10:29 AM
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Damn electricity in Georgia must be mad expensive

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05-04-2010, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
I dunno there.

I've seen clips of games where the seats along the glass were mostly empty. I've always wondered how many actually showed up.

3K may be low, but 12K seems a bit high as well
the seating capacity of the stadium is roughly 19k...trust me, 12k is a pretty fair estimate.

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05-04-2010, 06:15 PM
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So the Rangers get Bogosian and Little out of all this mess right?

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05-04-2010, 06:22 PM
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...a big time hockey guy at ESPN...
Something is not right when the first sentence includes this phrase.
I don't trust those figures at all...There is no way this is right.

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