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Old
05-03-2010, 09:19 PM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claude boivin lives View Post
What it's time to do is relegate him to a checking line and leave him there. And he should be out there on the PP, and should have his ass planted firmly in front of the net the entire time. Lavi's line bingo tonight was a joke. Tonight was the kind of game that was close enough that the line combos and chemistry mattered big time. Lavi deserves plenty of blame for the loss. He couldn't even figure out who to send out for the PP....too much PP time was spent with no one in front of the net, and Hartnell and JVR both on the bench. That was a problem, and it's on Lavi. And what happened to sending Pronger down low?? They could at least have been doing that. There were times that Richards and Pronger were both on the ice for the PP, and nobody was in front. That's where, at times, Pronger should be shifting in front and Richards to the point.
Amen.

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05-03-2010, 09:21 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claude boivin lives View Post
What it's time to do is relegate him to a checking line and leave him there. And he should be out there on the PP, and should have his ass planted firmly in front of the net the entire time. Lavi's line bingo tonight was a joke. Tonight was the kind of game that was close enough that the line combos and chemistry mattered big time. Lavi deserves plenty of blame for the loss. He couldn't even figure out who to send out for the PP....too much PP time was spent with no one in front of the net, and Hartnell and JVR both on the bench. That was a problem, and it's on Lavi. And what happened to sending Pronger down low?? They could at least have been doing that. There were times that Richards and Pronger were both on the ice for the PP, and nobody was in front. That's where, at times, Pronger should be shifting in front and Richards to the point.
You seem to have trouble grasping the fact that our bottom 6 is a trainwreck right now and that there's nothing anyone can do about it.

So line bingo will be played for the rest of the postseason with Ross and Nodl getting spot duty, the weird thing to me was Asham getting only 6 mins, not sure if he's in the doghouse again or if he got lost in the shuffle.

Also interesting that the JVR-Powe-Asham line that everyone seemed to want absolutely blew ass.

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05-03-2010, 09:29 PM
  #53
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Change title to: "It's time to throw him out"

Trade him in off season sign Turco and replace Hartnell with 1.5M player that can score 10-15 goals with size.

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05-03-2010, 09:30 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
You seem to have trouble grasping the fact that our bottom 6 is a trainwreck right now and that there's nothing anyone can do about it.

So line bingo will be played for the rest of the postseason with Ross and Nodl getting spot duty, the weird thing to me was Asham getting only 6 mins, not sure if he's in the doghouse again or if he got lost in the shuffle.

Also interesting that the JVR-Powe-Asham line that everyone seemed to want absolutely blew ass.
You seem to have trouble grasping the fact that I'd like to see certain lines and don't believe line bingo would be necessary if they were given a shot. And Asham's ice time tonight is a perfect example of just how dumb Lavi's line bingo was. No way in hell should Asham be getting 6 mins right now. I seriously feel for Asham, he must feel like ****. All the good he's done for the team this season, and he has to watch Ross step in and get more minutes than him.

And JVR-Powe-Asham? What are you even talking about?? First of all, who are all the people that wanted to see that? Certainly not me, and I didn't come across anyone else saying that. And secondly, JVR-Powe-Ross was the line tonight most of the time, not JVR-Powe-Asham.

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05-03-2010, 09:36 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claude boivin lives View Post
You seem to have trouble grasping the fact that I'd like to see certain lines and don't believe line bingo would be necessary if they were given a shot. And Asham's ice time tonight is a perfect example of just how dumb Lavi's line bingo was. No way in hell should Asham be getting 6 mins right now. I seriously feel for Asham, he must feel like ****. All the good he's done for the team this season, and he has to watch Ross step in and get more minutes than him.

And JVR-Powe-Asham? What are you even talking about?? First of all, who are all the people that wanted to see that? Certainly not me, and I didn't come across anyone else saying that. And secondly, JVR-Powe-Ross was the line tonight most of the time, not JVR-Powe-Asham.
Meh it was 50/50.

And I mean face it, we have 3, maybe 4 guys who simply can't be trusted to play more than 7 minutes at ES, tough to roll lines when you have that situation.

Bottom line, people can cry about line bingo all they want, but if guys like Hartnell, JVR, and Giroux aren't going to produce points and chance (and they got the ice-time), we're ****ed either way and it didn't help that Boosh let in 2 softies.

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05-03-2010, 09:47 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Meh it was 50/50.

And I mean face it, we have 3, maybe 4 guys who simply can't be trusted to play more than 7 minutes at ES, tough to roll lines when you have that situation.

Bottom line, people can cry about line bingo all they want, but if guys like Hartnell, JVR, and Giroux aren't going to produce points and chance (and they got the ice-time), we're ****ed either way and it didn't help that Boosh let in 2 softies.
It was most definitely not 50/50.

But anyway, I noted earlier when talking about the lines that too much is often made of that stuff. As I said, the bottom line is that players need to play...guys need to get it done. However, a close game like tonight's was absolutely a game where that stuff was critical. I could give plenty of examples, but the ones you gave work just fine. You're not giving JVR the best chance to produce points playing him with effing Powe and Ross. You're hurting Giroux's chances of creating and producing by sticking Hartnell on his wing rather than JVR. And Hartnell is currently far better suited to a physical, grinding, checking line than a scoring line...and is certainly more suitable for that role than JVR.

This is the kind of stuff that coaching is all about, and this is the time that it really counts. Lavi isn't doing a good job with it.

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05-03-2010, 09:55 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claude boivin lives View Post
It was most definitely not 50/50.

But anyway, I noted earlier when talking about the lines that too much is often made of that stuff. As I said, the bottom line is that players need to play...guys need to get it done. However, a close game like tonight's was absolutely a game where that stuff was critical. I could give plenty of examples, but the ones you gave work just fine. You're not giving JVR the best chance to produce points playing him with effing Powe and Ross. You're hurting Giroux's chances of creating and producing by sticking Hartnell on his wing rather than JVR. And Hartnell is currently far better suited to a physical, grinding, checking line than a scoring line...and is certainly more suitable for that role than JVR.

This is the kind of stuff that coaching is all about, and this is the time that it really counts. Lavi isn't doing a good job with it.
Meh, JVR spent a lot of time with Richards and couldn't come up with anything.

Guys need to suck it up and realize you won't be playing with optimal linemates, but the job needs to get done or you go home.

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05-03-2010, 10:03 PM
  #58
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I agree with Claude about Hartnell. At this point we don't have the spare bodies to bump him out of the lineup so the best that we can do is relegate him to an energy/checking line and let him be useless there. If we could somehow start a line of Hartnell-Ross-Nodl then we could call it the all useless line (although Nodl has some use).

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05-03-2010, 10:11 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Meh, JVR spent a lot of time with Richards and couldn't come up with anything.

Guys need to suck it up and realize you won't be playing with optimal linemates, but the job needs to get done or you go home.
By no means did JVR spend "a lot of time" with Richards.

And the coach needs to suck it up and realize he needs a plan. I'm surprised by this becoming a problem, considering that since Lavi took over, he has shown a tendency to give his line combos a chance....more than most coaches would. Whether I've agreed with his combos or not, he has typically given them time. Now, he's dealing with a few injuries, and all of a sudden has become possessed by John Stevens. Actually, tonight he was even more nutty with it than Stevens ever was. I'm not sure I can recall the line bingo being quite this ridiculous in any game under Stevens...
http://www.dobberhockey.com/frozenpo...ations&sent=go

I'd rather stick with mostly the same combos that I'm not completely loving than just thowing **** at the wall the whole game. Tonight was just stupid in that regard. Injuries or not, he needs a better plan. Mixing things up that much isn't making it easy for your players to get in any kind of rhythm either. Alright, I'm done *****ing for now.


Last edited by claude boivin lives: 05-03-2010 at 10:16 PM.
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05-03-2010, 10:36 PM
  #60
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Salary dump him and give that money to Claude.

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05-04-2010, 10:56 AM
  #61
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Salary dump him and give that money to Claude.
Thanks, I'm flattered. To be honest, though...I'm not sure my contributions to this site are quite worth $4.2 mill. But hey, hopefully Holmgren feels the same way you do.

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Amen.
Haha, I just saw that you had already said basically the same exact stuff in the GDT. Great minds think alike....if only Lavi had a great mind.

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05-04-2010, 11:26 AM
  #62
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This off season is going to be really interesting. It's clear that there are guys who are done in Philadelphia and will be moving on. However, it's going to be interesting to see who comes in and replaces them. Will the replacements be internal or external?

It's almost a lock that Testwuide is going to make the team as Holmgren said he expects him to come in and compete for a spot. If Hartnell gets moved, does Testwuide fit into Hartnell's slot or does he move to the top line with Gagne and Richards and fills the role Mike Knuble played.

Also, what will become of Pat Maroon? His year in Adirondack this year was nothing to write home about. It was injury riddled and he had a conflict with the coach there. With that being said, Maroon got a chance to show off his passing skills (which are highly under rated) and he also showed something that most people did not expect him to have - a mean streak.

I know much is made about Maroon's skating, but I can honestly say that his skating has improved ten fold from the day he was drafted. He'll never be a burner in terms of speed, but he can more than hold his own. The way some people talk of Maroon's skating, you'd think he was wearing cinder blocks on his feet skating through waist high molasses. I'll say this - there are much worse skaters in the league than Maroon.

I honestly believe that Hartnell is gone this off season. What seals the deal for me was the STH Town Hall when Holmgren was talking about moving a player with a No Trade Clause and he specifically singled out Hartnell. Too much of a coincidence to believe anything else. Like I said previously, if the offer for Ryan Clowe from San Jose is on the table, I'd hope the Flyers would take it.

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05-04-2010, 11:33 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claude boivin lives View Post
By no means did JVR spend "a lot of time" with Richards.

And the coach needs to suck it up and realize he needs a plan. I'm surprised by this becoming a problem, considering that since Lavi took over, he has shown a tendency to give his line combos a chance....more than most coaches would. Whether I've agreed with his combos or not, he has typically given them time. Now, he's dealing with a few injuries, and all of a sudden has become possessed by John Stevens. Actually, tonight he was even more nutty with it than Stevens ever was. I'm not sure I can recall the line bingo being quite this ridiculous in any game under Stevens...
http://www.dobberhockey.com/frozenpo...ations&sent=go

I'd rather stick with mostly the same combos that I'm not completely loving than just thowing **** at the wall the whole game. Tonight was just stupid in that regard. Injuries or not, he needs a better plan. Mixing things up that much isn't making it easy for your players to get in any kind of rhythm either. Alright, I'm done *****ing for now.
Did find something interesting on that site:

Quote:
34.02% EV 45 ASHAM,ARRON - 28 GIROUX,CLAUDE - 21 VAN RIEMSDYK,JAMES
13.91% EV 48 BRIERE,DANIEL - 22 LEINO,VILLE - 21 VAN RIEMSDYK,JAMES
5.92% EV 48 BRIERE,DANIEL - 17 CARTER,JEFF - 21 VAN RIEMSDYK,JAMES
4.44% EV 36 POWE,DARROLL - 42 ROSS,JARED - 21 VAN RIEMSDYK,JAMES
3.25% PP 48 BRIERE,DANIEL - 17 CARTER,JEFF - 21 VAN RIEMSDYK,JAMES
2.96% EV 45 ASHAM,ARRON - 18 RICHARDS,MIKE - 21 VAN RIEMSDYK,JAMES
2.37% EV 13 CARCILLO,DANIEL - 18 RICHARDS,MIKE - 21 VAN RIEMSDYK,JAMES
2.37% EV 45 ASHAM,ARRON - 48 BRIERE,DANIEL - 21 VAN RIEMSDYK,JAMES
2.07% EV 45 ASHAM,ARRON - 36 POWE,DARROLL - 21 VAN RIEMSDYK,JAMES
JVR has only played with lesser guys 4.44% of the time.

Its a shame though on Hartnell. It doesnt seem like the guy isnt trying, but its like he tries hard but still ****s up. I know he is doing bad, but one can tell he is trying.

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05-04-2010, 11:38 AM
  #64
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Did find something interesting on that site:



JVR has only played with lesser guys 4.44% of the time.
What? But what is that a sample of? What period of time did you do? 4.44% of what time?

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05-04-2010, 11:45 AM
  #65
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What? But what is that a sample of? What period of time did you do? 4.44% of what time?
It said "All of Playoffs"

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05-04-2010, 11:50 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
It said "All of Playoffs"
Ah...well, I don't know why you're pigeonholing Ross and Powe as "lesser guys"...but at any rate, right now JVR should be on a scoring line and Hartnell a checking line.

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05-04-2010, 11:54 AM
  #67
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Holmer needs to seriously think about putting him down. Maybe give Scott the ultimatum: He needs to show up on the score sheet and give a better effort or else we are gonna put him down.

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05-04-2010, 12:42 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
This off season is going to be really interesting. It's clear that there are guys who are done in Philadelphia and will be moving on. However, it's going to be interesting to see who comes in and replaces them. Will the replacements be internal or external?

It's almost a lock that Testwuide is going to make the team as Holmgren said he expects him to come in and compete for a spot. If Hartnell gets moved, does Testwuide fit into Hartnell's slot or does he move to the top line with Gagne and Richards and fills the role Mike Knuble played.

Also, what will become of Pat Maroon? His year in Adirondack this year was nothing to write home about. It was injury riddled and he had a conflict with the coach there. With that being said, Maroon got a chance to show off his passing skills (which are highly under rated) and he also showed something that most people did not expect him to have - a mean streak.

I know much is made about Maroon's skating, but I can honestly say that his skating has improved ten fold from the day he was drafted. He'll never be a burner in terms of speed, but he can more than hold his own. The way some people talk of Maroon's skating, you'd think he was wearing cinder blocks on his feet skating through waist high molasses. I'll say this - there are much worse skaters in the league than Maroon.

I honestly believe that Hartnell is gone this off season. What seals the deal for me was the STH Town Hall when Holmgren was talking about moving a player with a No Trade Clause and he specifically singled out Hartnell. Too much of a coincidence to believe anything else. Like I said previously, if the offer for Ryan Clowe from San Jose is on the table, I'd hope the Flyers would take it.
Yeah i can agree there will be major changes. Who comes and who goes will depend on who Holmgren thinks is ready to compete a the NHL level. Is Testwuide? I dont know. But if he can bring anything close to what Hartnell brings then its time for Hartnell to go. Yeah hes probably going thru alot of **** in his life. But you know what, we all at some point have **** that happens in our lives. I have, and I think most of us have on this board.
Hartnell will be easier to move then Briere if given the choice. Holmgren said 10 teams called about interest in him around the deadline. Not sure how serious it was but I would hope he follows up with that.
Not sure if San Jose does that deal now honestly. Hartnell makes more money and right now Clowe is the better hockey player. We would have to add something. Not sure if I want to do that or not.
If Coburn asks for too much money hes gone. I didnt like his game for the most part this season even tho he did play well down the stretch.


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05-04-2010, 12:44 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
It said "All of Playoffs"

You can look up last night's game here:

http://www.nhl.com/scores/htmlreport...0/PL030222.HTM

It tell you who was out for each shift.... I'm not going to bother.

And this was a thread about Hartnell, who was great last night. Destroyed many guys. We need that from him. Next comes some rebound goals.

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05-04-2010, 12:50 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
You can look up last night's game here:

http://www.nhl.com/scores/htmlreport...0/PL030222.HTM

It tell you who was out for each shift.... I'm not going to bother.

And this was a thread about Hartnell, who was great last night. Destroyed many guys. We need that from him. Next comes some rebound goals.
Hartnell needs shots on goal to actually score. Something he has done next to none of this series.

I'm done with Hartnell. Move him. The guy has 7 goals in 46 NHL playoff games. And 10 assists.

17 points in 46 playoff games. We are paying him how much? Not to mention he does more harm then good most times I see him. Heck, give Powe a raise and keep him. With Hartnell's ice time, he is so overvalued it's disgusting. His penalties alone should be of huge concern.

Hartnell had 14 goals in 81 games this season. Powe had 9 goals in 63 games with way less icetime. The choice should be obvious. Hartnell has 30 assists because he plays with Carter, not because he is a decent passer. He isn't.

I'm not asking for Bobby Ryan here for $4.2 mill, but good teams dont overpay 2nd or 3rd line wingers who take this many penalties.


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05-04-2010, 12:50 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
This off season is going to be really interesting. It's clear that there are guys who are done in Philadelphia and will be moving on. However, it's going to be interesting to see who comes in and replaces them. Will the replacements be internal or external?

It's almost a lock that Testwuide is going to make the team as Holmgren said he expects him to come in and compete for a spot. If Hartnell gets moved, does Testwuide fit into Hartnell's slot or does he move to the top line with Gagne and Richards and fills the role Mike Knuble played.

Also, what will become of Pat Maroon? His year in Adirondack this year was nothing to write home about. It was injury riddled and he had a conflict with the coach there. With that being said, Maroon got a chance to show off his passing skills (which are highly under rated) and he also showed something that most people did not expect him to have - a mean streak.

I know much is made about Maroon's skating, but I can honestly say that his skating has improved ten fold from the day he was drafted. He'll never be a burner in terms of speed, but he can more than hold his own. The way some people talk of Maroon's skating, you'd think he was wearing cinder blocks on his feet skating through waist high molasses. I'll say this - there are much worse skaters in the league than Maroon.

I honestly believe that Hartnell is gone this off season. What seals the deal for me was the STH Town Hall when Holmgren was talking about moving a player with a No Trade Clause and he specifically singled out Hartnell. Too much of a coincidence to believe anything else. Like I said previously, if the offer for Ryan Clowe from San Jose is on the table, I'd hope the Flyers would take it.
Maroon is going to need a strong off season and training camp to have a shot. He should sit down with Lavi and find out what the coach wants him to work on. He's worked hard to improve himself this far, I would expect him to keep it up.

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05-04-2010, 12:59 PM
  #72
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And this was a thread about Hartnell, who was great last night. Destroyed many guys. We need that from him. Next comes some rebound goals.
For me, rebound goals, or any goals for that matter, come first, not next. Not to mention the fact that Hartnell seems to take himself out during a good number of his hits.

Hartnell's salary is roughly the same as his weight in gold. His value is roughly the same as his weight in pucks.

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05-04-2010, 01:14 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
You can look up last night's game here:

http://www.nhl.com/scores/htmlreport...0/PL030222.HTM

It tell you who was out for each shift.... I'm not going to bother.

And this was a thread about Hartnell, who was great last night. Destroyed many guys. We need that from him. Next comes some rebound goals.
Yea the other site showed it:
Quote:
31.25% EV 36 POWE,DARROLL - 42 ROSS,JARED - 21 VAN RIEMSDYK,JAMES
14.58% EV 48 BRIERE,DANIEL - 22 LEINO,VILLE - 21 VAN RIEMSDYK,JAMES
12.5% EV 45 ASHAM,ARRON - 36 POWE,DARROLL - 21 VAN RIEMSDYK,JAMES
10.42% EV 13 CARCILLO,DANIEL - 36 POWE,DARROLL - 21 VAN RIEMSDYK,JAMES
8.33% PP 19 HARTNELL,SCOTT - 18 RICHARDS,MIKE - 21 VAN RIEMSDYK,JAMES
8.33% EV 36 POWE,DARROLL - 18 RICHARDS,MIKE - 21 VAN RIEMSDYK,JAMES
4.17% PP 19 HARTNELL,SCOTT - 22 LEINO,VILLE - 21 VAN RIEMSDYK,JAMES
4.17% EV 19 HARTNELL,SCOTT - 18 RICHARDS,MIKE - 21 VAN RIEMSDYK,JAMES
2.08% PP 28 GIROUX,CLAUDE - 18 RICHARDS,MIKE - 21 VAN RIEMSDYK,JAMES

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05-04-2010, 01:40 PM
  #74
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Holmer needs to seriously think about putting him down. Maybe give Scott the ultimatum: He needs to show up on the score sheet and give a better effort or else we are gonna put him down.
What, like a dog? I'm intrigued by your suggestion...

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05-04-2010, 01:44 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Amateur Hour View Post
What, like a dog? I'm intrigued by your suggestion...

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