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Junland signs with Farjestad, no outclause

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Old
05-05-2010, 08:22 AM
  #76
Prussian_Blue
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Originally Posted by Plager05 View Post
Junland ... was also staring at a possible Peoria blueline of him Pietrangelo, Cole, Strachan and Rundblad, lots of competition for ice time even down there.
On what planet, and in what year?

Rundblad isn't even eligible for the AHL until 2011 -- 20th birthday is after the 2010-11 season starts -- so you can forget that idea, even if the Blues were planning to bring him over from Sweden this year, which I have not heard that they're planning to do.

And if you think Pietrangelo is going to spend more than a few days in the AHL, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you...

There might be a logjam on defense in the organization, but it's not in Peoria now, or in the immediate future. Cole, Strachan, and the newly-acquired Darryl Boyle are the only Peoria defensemen aside from Junland that have any shot whatsoever at regular NHL duty... and Strachan may well be in the NHL full-time next season, if the Blues are able to move someone off of their blueline in order to move up in the draft and/or acquire more picks/offensive prospects.

P_B


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05-05-2010, 08:36 AM
  #77
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Good to see you P_B. I don't recall myself but do you remember if the move to Peoria was this ownerships decision or Bill Lauries?

I thought it was Bills call and that he had some connection to Peoria and that was why he moved the team there. I think you are on to something.
I'm pretty sure that the move to Peoria from Worcester was a Bill Laurie move, Big Walt... and done as a cost-saving move.

P_B

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05-05-2010, 08:51 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by ChicagoBlues View Post

KC, on the other hand, is a kick ass city. In many ways it is way cooler than STL.
Now them's fightin' words!

j/k...I grew up in the K.C. metro ('74-'92) & I've been in STL since...I like both cities.

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05-05-2010, 11:02 AM
  #79
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What I mean is that you don't develop a fan base by putting your farm team in your backyard. That's it.

Teams like the Red Wings, Hawks, Leafs, Bruins and Rangers are exceptions to the rule. Notice they are all original six teams.

They don't have to worry about having a tradional following. Teams like us do.

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05-05-2010, 11:04 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Prussian_Blue View Post


Strickland "reports" what the Blues choose to leak to him . He's their stalking horse, and everyone but him -- and you, it seems -- knows it.


P_B
There is some of that. You don't find it informative when you view his information through that lens? I think it can actually be even more revealing about the team when I read what Strickland says in that light. But again, feel free to ignore him. If you have some superior sources, do you mind listing them? I generally like to sift through everything I can get my hands on.

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05-05-2010, 11:06 AM
  #81
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I'm not sure what you mean about being too close. Help me understand why that is significant.

IMO being close is a great thing because it reduces overall operations costs.

I've said this before and I'll say it again. Peoria is pokey town that international players probably find to be very boring. It is boring. It's awesome having it so close to STL, but it's in the middle of nowhere. A drive to Chicago is about two hours, so that is not doable on a consistent basis. Cham-Bana is a cool town, but that's all it is, a college town.

KC, on the other hand, is a kick ass city. In many ways it is way cooler than STL. St. Charles is not good enough, but it would be better than Peoria.

It's really too bad that The Blues have an agreement with Peoria still.
Kansas City has no interest in a minor league team. Been there, done that.

Peoria may be "pokey" but what mid size towns aren't? Kind of painting with a broad brush here.

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05-05-2010, 11:21 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Overkamp View Post
Kansas City has no interest in a minor league team. Been there, done that.

Peoria may be "pokey" but what mid size towns aren't? Kind of painting with a broad brush here.
That's right. I am. For regular old Americans Peoria is not so bad, but for our European players it is a **** hole with a bunch of fat people and uncultured boobs.

Broad brush strokes.

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05-05-2010, 11:32 AM
  #83
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On what planet, and in what year?

Rundblad isn't even eligible for the AHL until 2011 -- 20th birthday is after the 2010-11 season starts -- so you can forget that idea, even if the Blues were planning to bring him over from Sweden this year, which I have not heard that they're planning to do.

And if you think Pietrangelo is going to spend more than a few days in the AHL, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you...

There might be a logjam on defense in the organization, but it's not in Peoria now, or in the immediate future. Cole, Strachan, and the newly-acquired Darryl Boyle are the only Peoria defensemen aside from Junland that have any shot whatsoever at regular NHL duty... and Strachan may well be in the NHL full-time next season, if the Blues are able to move someone off of their blueline in order to move up in the draft and/or acquire more picks/offensive prospects.

P_B
Given your level of hockey knowledge, I'm kind of surprised you're not familiar with the details of the "under 20" rule. The rule only pertains to kids drafted out of Canadian Major Jrs. The general min age for the AHL is the same as the NHL - age 18. Rundblad could've played in Peoria as soon as this season. He's not going to play in the AHL until he's at least 20 (he has another year on his SEL contract afterall) but he could. It's rare kids outside of Canadian Jrs play in the AHL under the age of 20 either since most are either still in college then or still over in Europe but they're eligible to be there if they and the NHL team that owns there rights wants them to be. I can't think of any recent Blues examples other than EJ's one game stint in Peoria at the age of 19 but the Kings have had both Vyacheslav Voynov and Oscar Moller playing for their AHL team under the age of 20 in the past couple of years. You're right that Rundblad won't be in Peoria next season and thus won't play there until he's at least 20, but he is allowed to by the rules.

Junland probably did see the likes of Petro, Cole, Strachan and then guys like Rundbland coming in later and probably thought to himself, "where to I fit in here?" I think if he really wanted to play in the NHL, he definitely should've taken the Blues one-way $500k offer as this upcoming season was easily his best shot but I suppose I can also see his hesitation. It's disappointing but at the same time, with all of those other quality young defenders, it's not a huge loss either.

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05-05-2010, 12:46 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by STL fan in IA View Post
Junland probably did see the likes of Petro, Cole, Strachan and then guys like Rundbland coming in later and probably thought to himself, "where to I fit in here?" I think if he really wanted to play in the NHL, he definitely should've taken the Blues one-way $500k offer as this upcoming season was easily his best shot but I suppose I can also see his hesitation. It's disappointing but at the same time, with all of those other quality young defenders, it's not a huge loss either.
Yeah, I really don't get this.

If his goal really is to play in the NHL, he's not going to have a better opportunity than now. No team is going to hand him a guaranteed roster spot no matter how good he is in the SEL or AHL or wherever else he plays. He still has to prove something, and the Blues offering a one-way contract shows they have confidence that he has the ability to do it.

For those of you blaming the Blues, I'm honestly not sure what else they can do in this situation. Talk of how "boring" Peoria is aside, if these guys really want to make the NHL then they have to make some sacrifices. Junland's put in a lot of hard work to make it, and now he's just going to throw it all away when he's being given a vote of confidence by the organization and a great opportunity to make the team next year? It doesn't make sense to me.

I wasn't too worked up about this after the first report, but now that I've thought about it more and more it really makes me worry about Junland. Usually I'm not too angry about things like this; Playing in the SEL isn't a loss and I can't blame European players who want to play and develop a few years before coming over to the US. I have to wonder if he's getting some bad advice from his agent or something, or if he really is ticked off at the organization for whatever reason. Is he really going to have a better chance to make the team next year, when Pietrangelo will surely be in the lineup and Cole will have a year of AHL action under his belt? I guess Brewer will be off the books then, but its hardly a better situation for him.

I could see this all blowing over in another year after Junland has a good year in the SEL and returns to make the team, but it could end badly. I'd really like to hear JD or someone else in the organization come out and say something regarding this issue just to hear what they are thinking. We'd probably just be fed some PR bull, but at least that's better than silence.

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05-05-2010, 01:16 PM
  #85
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The other reason this hurts Junland is that is ruins any trade value he may have had. Teams know what our assets are and what our needs are and I don't see them wanting any part of a guy who's afraid to compete for a spot on the big club. I think he wants to be closer to home and his desire is to be there. Nothing less, nothing more.

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05-05-2010, 01:29 PM
  #86
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Yeah, I really don't get this.

If his goal really is to play in the NHL, he's not going to have a better opportunity than now. No team is going to hand him a guaranteed roster spot no matter how good he is in the SEL or AHL or wherever else he plays. He still has to prove something, and the Blues offering a one-way contract shows they have confidence that he has the ability to do it.

For those of you blaming the Blues, I'm honestly not sure what else they can do in this situation. Talk of how "boring" Peoria is aside, if these guys really want to make the NHL then they have to make some sacrifices. Junland's put in a lot of hard work to make it, and now he's just going to throw it all away when he's being given a vote of confidence by the organization and a great opportunity to make the team next year? It doesn't make sense to me.

I wasn't too worked up about this after the first report, but now that I've thought about it more and more it really makes me worry about Junland. Usually I'm not too angry about things like this; Playing in the SEL isn't a loss and I can't blame European players who want to play and develop a few years before coming over to the US. I have to wonder if he's getting some bad advice from his agent or something, or if he really is ticked off at the organization for whatever reason. Is he really going to have a better chance to make the team next year, when Pietrangelo will surely be in the lineup and Cole will have a year of AHL action under his belt? I guess Brewer will be off the books then, but its hardly a better situation for him.

I could see this all blowing over in another year after Junland has a good year in the SEL and returns to make the team, but it could end badly. I'd really like to hear JD or someone else in the organization come out and say something regarding this issue just to hear what they are thinking. We'd probably just be fed some PR bull, but at least that's better than silence.
I would pretty much agree with your thought process. If Junland is ever going to make the NHL, this upcoming season was likely his best shot. If he's not willing to give it a shot this next season, why would he try the year after that after the Blues have likely moved on, Petro, Cole, etc are that much more ready to take a spot over him, and he likely hasn't improved his game much if any after his season in the SEL? He likely has a better chance to make the team for the 2010-11 season than he does in 2011-12 after playing a year in the SEL. I don't really get his thought process either but it's pretty clear he REALLY did not want to spend another year in Peoria...or even risk the chance of ending up in Peoria by taking the Blues $500k offer.

As for the part I bolded, Strick has mentioned a couple of times now that Junland signed with Farjestad against the advice of his agents. Here's his update on the Junland situation as well as a few other tidbits - LINK

I can tell you that yes, Junland was perturbed with the Blues organization. He was mad they didn't take him to Sweden at the beginning of the season to play against his former SEL team Linkoping and the bad feelings festered as the season went along as he didn't get called up as much or as soon as he would have liked. Personally though, I think he needs to be a big boy and buck up. He wasn't deserving to make the team out of camp (thus not really deserving to be on the plane going over to Sweden no matter which team it happened to be the Blues were playing an exhibition game against) and didn't really improve his defensive game enough to earn serious consideration to be promoted until late in the season. He says the NHL is his goal and while I can respect his desire to not want to play in Peoria anymore, if he really wanted to play in the NHL, this next season, especially with a one-way $500k contract, would've been his best bet. I'll be honest with you - I don't think we'll ever see Junland in a Blues jersey at this point. I suppose there's the outside chance he and the Blues reach a deal but I have my doubts and since the SEL season starts before the NHL season, I see him just playing the year in Sweden and not even bothering with Blues training camp. My guess is that his rights will likely be traded at some point but now that he's returned to Sweden, his rights obviously aren't worth nearly as much anymore...not that they were worth a ton to begin with though. I suppose folks can blame the Blues for not trading him sooner but it's not very fair to expect the Blues to make moves with foresight as clear as hindsight.

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05-05-2010, 01:38 PM
  #87
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Given your level of hockey knowledge, I'm kind of surprised you're not familiar with the details of the "under 20" rule. The rule only pertains to kids drafted out of Canadian Major Jrs.
Sorry, no.. my understanding is that the rule applies to players under age 20 unless drafted out of a European junior league.

Konstantin Zakharov, for example, was drafted out of the Belarus junior league, and that's why he could play in Worcester at age 19.

Rundblad was playing in the SEL when he was drafted, and thus is not eligible to play in the AHL until he's 20.

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Originally Posted by STL fan in IA View Post
...the Kings have had both Vyacheslav Voynov and Oscar Moller playing for their AHL team under the age of 20 in the past couple of years.
...who were both drafted out of European junior leagues, Voynov out of the MHL (or it's equivalent at the time), and Moller out of the J20 Superelit.

If either had been a regular in his country's elite league during his draft year, he would be ineligible to play in the AHL until age 20.

P_B

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05-05-2010, 01:43 PM
  #88
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Kansas City has no interest in a minor league team. Been there, done that.
And you know this how? You live there, perhaps? Have contacts on the city council?

A team in a league two steps below the AHL, in the Kansas City market (the Missouri Mavericks of the CHL) drew 4900-plus per night this year, in their inaugural season, in a brand-new building.

That's 400+ more paying fannies in the seats per game than the Rivermen managed to draw in a "established' minor-league hockey market.

The market, and the age/condition of the facility and its amenities, have a great deal to do with why the Blues are having trouble keeping guys "down on the farm," from where I sit.

P_B

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05-05-2010, 01:56 PM
  #89
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Sorry, no.. my understanding is that the rule applies to players under age 20 unless drafted out of a European junior league.

Konstantin Zakharov, for example, was drafted out of the Belarus junior league, and that's why he could play in Worcester at age 19.

Rundblad was playing in the SEL when he was drafted, and thus is not eligible to play in the AHL until he's 20.



...who were both drafted out of European junior leagues, Voynov out of the MHL (or it's equivalent at the time), and Moller out of the J20 Superelit.

If either had been a regular in his country's elite league during his draft year, he would be ineligible to play in the AHL until age 20.

P_B
I am 99.9% certain the agreement is between the NHL and the CHL (Canadian Hockey League) only. Go ask Irish or someone else on the Business board of this website if you want. Voynov was drafted out of the RSL...pretty much the current day KHL - http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=10627. Upon closer inspection, Moller wasn't a good example by me. He played Jrs in the WHL the year he was drafted so he was held to the "20 yr rule". The 8 games he played in the AHL last season must've been as a conditioning assignment. Another example though is Maxim Mayorov. He played virtually all of last season in the AHL at the age of 19 and was also drafted out of the RSL - http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=12466.

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05-05-2010, 02:06 PM
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I am 99.9% certain the agreement is between the NHL and the CHL (Canadian Hockey League) only. Go ask Irish or someone else on the Business board of this website if you want. Voynov was drafted out of the RSL...pretty much the current day KHL - http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=10627. Upon closer inspection, Moller wasn't a good example by me. He played Jrs in the WHL the year he was drafted so he was held to the "20 yr rule". The 8 games he played in the AHL last season must've been as a conditioning assignment. Another example though is Maxim Mayorov. He played virtually all of last season in the AHL at the age of 19 and was also drafted out of the RSL - http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=12466.
You're correct that there's an agreement between the NHL and the CHL to keep U20 Canadian juniors out of the AHL, but that's separate from the agreement that allowed/allows U20 Euros to play in the AHL as long as they were drafted from a Euro junior league. That agreement may now be superseded, I don't know, but the rule in the late 90's and early 2000's was that U20 North Americans couldn't play in the AHL, while U20 Euros could under certain conditions. The rule was/is designed to protect the investment of the CHL owners in the kids they have control of for only a limited time, so that they can market 19- and 20-year-old stars in major junior and milk that cash cow as long as possible.

You're correct re: Voinov, who played 36 games in the Superleague during his draft year. My impression was that he played for the Chelyabinsk junior squad in 2007-08, but it looks as thoiugh that impression was inaccurate.

P_B

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05-05-2010, 02:16 PM
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The 20 year old rule is only for players drafted out of the CHL. The only requirement Runblad had to meet to play in the AHL this year was to be 18 by september 15th 2009.

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05-05-2010, 03:02 PM
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I have been a bad boy. Oopsy!!

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05-05-2010, 03:12 PM
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I really don't understand why Junland only got one exhibition game in the pre-season. I think it would have been cool to allow him to play vs Linkoping, especially since the team was allowed an extended roster at the time, but at least I could understand the need to get ready for Detroit and put the true roster on the ice.

But it seemed like he got a bit of a shaft when he barely got a look in pre-season, almost no bit of call-up. In fact, I'm surprised the team offered him the 1-way contract since they had so little NHL play to evaluate.

I wish I could turn down a half million to do my job in Peoria.

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05-05-2010, 07:36 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Prussian_Blue View Post
And you know this how? You live there, perhaps? Have contacts on the city council?

A team in a league two steps below the AHL, in the Kansas City market (the Missouri Mavericks of the CHL) drew 4900-plus per night this year, in their inaugural season, in a brand-new building.

That's 400+ more paying fannies in the seats per game than the Rivermen managed to draw in a "established' minor-league hockey market.

The market, and the age/condition of the facility and its amenities, have a great deal to do with why the Blues are having trouble keeping guys "down on the farm," from where I sit.

P_B
A look at the numbers will tell you that 4900 was the announced number. But they drew maybe half of that per game. Peoria on the other hand actually put people through the gate with a population 15 times less than Kansas City.

Players aren't leaving for Europe because they hate Peoria. That statement is completely devoid of commonsense or any good judgement.

It's about heart and personal preference. I don't blame Junland for doing what his heart is telling him to do. I do blame him for making this into something that doesn't exist or what he thinks exists. He WANTS to be Europe, fine. But to say (play the part) you deserve to be in the NHL and you've been treated unfairly is absurd. He doesn't "deserve" anything at this point. As many people here have said and who watch him in Peoria, Junland is talented but he's just not ready.

And I don't know from "where you sit" but it's a far cry from Kansas..

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05-05-2010, 07:40 PM
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I really don't understand why Junland only got one exhibition game in the pre-season. I think it would have been cool to allow him to play vs Linkoping, especially since the team was allowed an extended roster at the time, but at least I could understand the need to get ready for Detroit and put the true roster on the ice.

But it seemed like he got a bit of a shaft when he barely got a look in pre-season, almost no bit of call-up. In fact, I'm surprised the team offered him the 1-way contract since they had so little NHL play to evaluate.

I wish I could turn down a half million to do my job in Peoria.
He didn't get many preseason games because he didn't deserve it. There is this me first attitude with him, which is now clearly evident.

I remember saying last September, "when is Junland going to play?"

It didn't happen for a reason. Doesn't matter if you disliked Murray. Him and Payne were on the same page.

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05-05-2010, 07:58 PM
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He didn't get many preseason games because he didn't deserve it. There is this me first attitude with him, which is now clearly evident.

I remember saying last September, "when is Junland going to play?"

It didn't happen for a reason. Doesn't matter if you disliked Murray. Him and Payne were on the same page.
Just how exactly is it "clearly evident" that he has a "me first attitude"? Using the phrase "clearly evident" rings alarm bells of a particular style of argumentation.

Also, you did not clarify your previous post about having the farm team too close to the big club. How does being too close affect anything?

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05-05-2010, 08:06 PM
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Just how exactly is it "clearly evident" that he has a "me first attitude"? Using the phrase "clearly evident" rings alarm bells of a particular style of argumentation.

Also, you did not clarify your previous post about having the farm team too close to the big club. How does being too close affect anything?
Let's just say, in my opinion, it's shows a pure me first attitude. You don't have to agree. I bet he never plays in North America again. And if he does, it won't be in the NHL. If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong. I have been wrong in the past. No biggie.

I did clarify my position on not putting a farm team close to the big club. It doesn't help build a fan base. That's why the Rivermen/Icecats or whatever don't play in St. Charles. That, and it's cheaper.

These people aren't dumb.

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05-05-2010, 08:07 PM
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I will also say that this subject has gone OT and I have been a part of it. Maybe another thread is best suited for this discussion.

Cheers.

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05-05-2010, 08:18 PM
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He didn't get many preseason games because he didn't deserve it. There is this me first attitude with him, which is now clearly evident.

I remember saying last September, "when is Junland going to play?"

It didn't happen for a reason. Doesn't matter if you disliked Murray. Him and Payne were on the same page.
No, if you don't deserve it you get cut from the preseason roster. If you're still under consideration, you don't get cut and you get a look. You're suggestion that he was being punished by not getting preseason ice time because he's selfish, after playing 2 years in the AHL without any vocal complaining I can find record of until after the season....none of that rings true.

I agree that his recent actions/comments suggest he's a little taken with himself. But to pretend this has been a long pattern and its "good riddance" is a reach. Find me one example prior to this latest flap where people were concerned about Junland's attitude?

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05-05-2010, 08:26 PM
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Overkamp
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Originally Posted by 2 Minute Minor View Post
No, if you don't deserve it you get cut from the preseason roster. If you're still under consideration, you don't get cut and you get a look. You're suggestion that he was being punished by not getting preseason ice time because he's selfish, after playing 2 years in the AHL without any vocal complaining I can find record of until after the season....none of that rings true.

I agree that his recent actions/comments suggest he's a little taken with himself. But to pretend this has been a long pattern and its "good riddance" is a reach. Find me one example prior to this latest flap where people were concerned about Junland's attitude?
He didn't get cut because the Blues and we understand his value and what he can bring, but he didn't. Potential is there, but work ethic is lacking. He could have come to camp (and still can) and earned a spot this year. He took the easy way out.

Junland can't just show up to camp and put in 50% and "earn" starts. I would bet the organization was just hoping he would shine and give 100%. That never happened.

Is this a reach? Could be.

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