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Old
05-05-2010, 09:07 PM
  #176
Haute Couturier
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
We'd get a lot more for Carter. Like a LOT more. Think Toronto getting Kessel more.

Note that I wasn't saying to move him or that it would be a good idea. I just think Giroux and JVR will be more important to this team in 3-4 years.
Possibly, but the Flyers are trying to win now and Carter is proven while they are still developing. He is one of our most important forwards and it weakens the team to move him.

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05-05-2010, 09:11 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by eightyseven View Post
Price is damaged good at age 22? You really should watch the guy play during games instead of just listening to the anti-Price Montreal media.

Carey Price's technique/skill set is very, very good. His lateral movement, rebound control, puck-handling and patience on breakaways/odd-man rushes are excellent. The raw talent is there. In fact, just watch his NHL Highlights video from this season. His save % is still top 20 in the league and he plays in Montreal, arguably the hardest place to play in his position, it's not like he's at sub .900%.
Came by this forum (in peace) just to see what the post game talk was like and topics being discussed and saw the Price talks. I'm someone who views a good amount of the Habs games and honestly, Price in Philly would be a huge huge upswing for the Flyers. I talked about this in the trade talk a few months ago with some Flyers fans when the idea of Thomas for Gagne was being talked about. Price is a young kid with some great instincts, good size, great reflexes and can play a great game of taking away angles and giving shooters nothing.

The problem with Price is somewhat mental but not so much as I think people are saying. It's not, "Price is dying under the MTL media and Halak is taking it all in stride". The big issue is that Halak works with the MTL defensive system (which at times is nonexistent) and Price can't. Price needs to work in a system where the defensemen are capable to play defense and help limit the number of places a shot can come from on a break. In MTL, he's forced to play too deep in his net and he's unable to challenge shooters which takes away most of his game. Halak coming from international play is more suited to this as the wider rink surface has shaped his game to playing inside the crease (keeping himself from trouble when teams push wide and then look for plays across the crease)- in Montreal this translates to him sitting back more and playing in the net when support is lacking and the defensemen get beat by forwards coming out and around.

I'm not saying that Price can't play a fast break well or he's extremely flawed - it's just that in Montreal the game doesn't favor what he brings to the table and it shows and then trickles down to his mental game and his team's mental game- they change how they play to try to support him more or to play defense differently and their goal support drops.

Anyways, figured I'd give my thoughts on it. Price would help out in Philly and be a large contributor- the question is, does Philly think he's good enough to pay up for in both trade and contract and to move away from the, "we don't need to pay much for goaltending", philosophy?

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05-05-2010, 09:12 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by UseYourAllusion View Post
I mean, I get just as frustrated with Carter as the next guy, but hes still a 6'3" 25 year old center who already has a 45 goal season under his belt.

Giroux, and especialy JVR are still essentially prospects. Good ones, but they haven't proven much.
With giroux, i sadly feel he will never put up the numbers he could if he were on another team. For whatever reason the flyers dont have the players to compliment him and really bring out his skill. He is one of the most talented flyers i have ever seen and this is over the last 30= years. Once he learns the nuances of the game a little better i think he will be an incrediable player. Knowing the flyers philosphy on coveting big men, i can see him gettig moved before jvr

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05-05-2010, 09:12 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by BobbyOrrFTW View Post
Came by this forum (in peace) just to see what the post game talk was like and topics being discussed and saw the Price talks. I'm someone who views a good amount of the Habs games and honestly, Price in Philly would be a huge huge upswing for the Flyers. I talked about this in the trade talk a few months ago with some Flyers fans when the idea of Thomas for Gagne was being talked about. Price is a young kid with some great instincts, good size, great reflexes and can play a great game of taking away angles and giving shooters nothing.

The problem with Price is somewhat mental but not so much as I think people are saying. It's not, "Price is dying under the MTL media and Halak is taking it all in stride". The big issue is that Halak works with the MTL defensive system (which at times is nonexistent) and Price can't. Price needs to work in a system where the defensemen are capable to play defense and help limit the number of places a shot can come from on a break. In MTL, he's forced to play too deep in his net and he's unable to challenge shooters which takes away most of his game. Halak coming from international play is more suited to this as the wider rink surface has shaped his game to playing inside the crease (keeping himself from trouble when teams push wide and then look for plays across the crease)- in Montreal this translates to him sitting back more and playing in the net when support is lacking and the defensemen get beat by forwards coming out and around.

I'm not saying that Price can't play a fast break well or he's extremely flawed - it's just that in Montreal the game doesn't favor what he brings to the table and it shows and then trickles down to his mental game and his team's mental game- they change how they play to try to support him more or to play defense differently and their goal support drops.

Anyways, figured I'd give my thoughts on it. Price would help out in Philly and be a large contributor- the question is, does Philly think he's good enough to pay up for in both trade and contract and to move away from the, "we don't need to pay much for goaltending", philosophy?
Exactly. He's a big technically sound goaltender, who would be perfect for this team.

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05-05-2010, 09:16 PM
  #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyOrrFTW View Post
Came by this forum (in peace) just to see what the post game talk was like and topics being discussed and saw the Price talks. I'm someone who views a good amount of the Habs games and honestly, Price in Philly would be a huge huge upswing for the Flyers. I talked about this in the trade talk a few months ago with some Flyers fans when the idea of Thomas for Gagne was being talked about. Price is a young kid with some great instincts, good size, great reflexes and can play a great game of taking away angles and giving shooters nothing.

The problem with Price is somewhat mental but not so much as I think people are saying. It's not, "Price is dying under the MTL media and Halak is taking it all in stride". The big issue is that Halak works with the MTL defensive system (which at times is nonexistent) and Price can't. Price needs to work in a system where the defensemen are capable to play defense and help limit the number of places a shot can come from on a break. In MTL, he's forced to play too deep in his net and he's unable to challenge shooters which takes away most of his game. Halak coming from international play is more suited to this as the wider rink surface has shaped his game to playing inside the crease (keeping himself from trouble when teams push wide and then look for plays across the crease)- in Montreal this translates to him sitting back more and playing in the net when support is lacking and the defensemen get beat by forwards coming out and around.

I'm not saying that Price can't play a fast break well or he's extremely flawed - it's just that in Montreal the game doesn't favor what he brings to the table and it shows and then trickles down to his mental game and his team's mental game- they change how they play to try to support him more or to play defense differently and their goal support drops.

Anyways, figured I'd give my thoughts on it. Price would help out in Philly and be a large contributor- the question is, does Philly think he's good enough to pay up for in both trade and contract and to move away from the, "we don't need to pay much for goaltending", philosophy?

this is intelligent, insightful, and right on the money. good job bruins fan dude...

the flyers need

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05-05-2010, 09:21 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by RockinRiles View Post
How about you stop watching the games with your eyes closed?
Hmmm what?

Do you have a point? Probably not.


Last edited by Kaktus*: 05-05-2010 at 09:59 PM.
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Old
05-05-2010, 09:27 PM
  #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyOrrFTW View Post
Came by this forum (in peace) just to see what the post game talk was like and topics being discussed and saw the Price talks. I'm someone who views a good amount of the Habs games and honestly, Price in Philly would be a huge huge upswing for the Flyers. I talked about this in the trade talk a few months ago with some Flyers fans when the idea of Thomas for Gagne was being talked about. Price is a young kid with some great instincts, good size, great reflexes and can play a great game of taking away angles and giving shooters nothing.

The problem with Price is somewhat mental but not so much as I think people are saying. It's not, "Price is dying under the MTL media and Halak is taking it all in stride". The big issue is that Halak works with the MTL defensive system (which at times is nonexistent) and Price can't. Price needs to work in a system where the defensemen are capable to play defense and help limit the number of places a shot can come from on a break. In MTL, he's forced to play too deep in his net and he's unable to challenge shooters which takes away most of his game. Halak coming from international play is more suited to this as the wider rink surface has shaped his game to playing inside the crease (keeping himself from trouble when teams push wide and then look for plays across the crease)- in Montreal this translates to him sitting back more and playing in the net when support is lacking and the defensemen get beat by forwards coming out and around.

I'm not saying that Price can't play a fast break well or he's extremely flawed - it's just that in Montreal the game doesn't favor what he brings to the table and it shows and then trickles down to his mental game and his team's mental game- they change how they play to try to support him more or to play defense differently and their goal support drops.

Anyways, figured I'd give my thoughts on it. Price would help out in Philly and be a large contributor- the question is, does Philly think he's good enough to pay up for in both trade and contract and to move away from the, "we don't need to pay much for goaltending", philosophy?
Good post. Your last sentence is the million dollar question. His name has been mentioned by our various members of the media so the Flyers appear to be interested, but I'd be surprised if they parted with Giroux or JVR if that is what it took. If it was up to most fans we'd end up with Turco before investing in a real goalie.

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05-05-2010, 09:28 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
Good post. Your last sentence is the million dollar question. His name has been mentioned by our various members of the media so the Flyers appear to be interested, but I'd be surprised if they parted with Giroux or JVR if that is what it took. If it was up to most fans we'd end up with Turco before investing in a real goalie.
Yuck.

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05-05-2010, 09:33 PM
  #184
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NWO does make some legitimate points... its frustrating and some things are out of control as far as a GM is concerned, but his players over the course of a season including now (when most important) have under performed, its his job to put the players and coach to succeed and in certain respects, they've failed him...

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05-05-2010, 09:36 PM
  #185
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In regards to the goalie, the flyers need to determine what they think the russian and swedish guys ceiling really is when they are ready? when do they think they are ready? Do they think Price has a much higher ceiling? If they dont then turco for 2 years isnt a bad option. He needs a change of scenary and wont break the bank imo. I think 2 years 6mm tops is what he will get. I would rather have PRice but you need to give up assets to get him. The thing is i have no faith in shooter to make the right decsion.

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05-05-2010, 09:40 PM
  #186
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i had turco in fantasy this year. disaster.

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05-05-2010, 11:16 PM
  #187
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I agree somewhat with BobbyOrrFTW's assessment. The Mtl team generally plays different in front of Price than Halak. It's probably psychological, because the defense constantly leaves Price out to dry, he faces breakaways/odd-man rushes. In fact, if you watch his NHL Highlights video from this season, you'll see Gomez, Gionta (or whoever) turn the puck over, coast lazily back to "backcheck" and Price then has to make an incredible highlight-reel save on the play. It's almost as if the team just expects him to make all those difficult saves....lol.

When Halak plays, this rarely happens. However, when he does face odd-man rushes/breakaways, Halak usually gets exposed because he sucks at stopping them (also explains why his bad games are much worse than Price's!). However, his positioning is better than Price's right now.

Anyone who watches Carey Price can see how good his skill set/technique is really is. Yes, he has consistency issues and yes, he maybe have some maturity issues, but the guy has incredible talent...I'm praying Montreal isn't stupid enough to trade him at age 22 but the management there is incompetent so who really knows.

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05-06-2010, 12:06 AM
  #188
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I don't even care if it's Price. They just need to find someone, and commit to them.

And don't **** him up either

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05-06-2010, 12:15 AM
  #189
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It would be nice to see Price here. However MTL may want way too much for him. I.E - JVR, Giroux.

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05-06-2010, 12:35 AM
  #190
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
I don't even care if it's Price. They just need to find someone, and commit to them.

And don't **** him up either
I agree. This goaltending merry-go-round needs to end. Its been going on for far too long.

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05-06-2010, 12:40 AM
  #191
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I think of it more like a really bad cut. It just keeps ****ing bleeding. All we keep doing is shoving band aids on it to stop the bleeding for a short time. You get someone like Price or some other young goalie with upside you may stop the bleeding.

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05-06-2010, 02:43 AM
  #192
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the flyers need, sutures, stitches, band aids, gauze, a lot of peroxide, maybe some neosporin, and that nu-skin stuff to stop this bleeding. the organization is just getting worse and worse...

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05-06-2010, 04:57 AM
  #193
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Possibly, but the Flyers are trying to win now and Carter is proven while they are still developing. He is one of our most important forwards and it weakens the team to move him.
I never understood this.

Richards and Carter may have just recently hit their prime.
Giroux and vanRiemsdyk will be on the way shortly.

Sure we traded quite a bit of future when we got Pronger in an attempt to win in the next couple years, but when Holmgren was asked about giving up the future, he said he felt we had the excess futures to give it a strong shot.

4 years from now, I think the strategy is sort of like this:

vanRiemsdyk - Richards - Giroux
(Gagne) - Carter - Briere*
XXXXX - XXXXX - Nodl#
XXXXX - XXXXX - XXXXX

Coburn - Pronger (aged)
XXXXX - XXXXX
Bartulis/Bourdon/Gustafsson/Lehtivuori - Marshall

Bobrovsky/Eriksson
XXXXX

* denotes a player me need to move.
# Nodl is starting to show glimpses of being a solid third line winger despite limited offensive capabilities. I'm actually fairly pleased with him, though I wish he could find his scoring touch. Nobody else right now among forwards is showing me much.

We have a lot of future needs now. We're going to need a future no. 1 defenseman and some top wingers. That draft pick in 2011 is going to be important.

I'd like to try to move Hartnell and Carle to see if we can get a some picks/futures. We start the rebuild on the fly. Holmgren's analysis of talent allows us to do that.

We are not trying to be a window team. I don't know why everyone sees it that way. We have an incredible young core assembled that we need to build around while we're pushing for a championship in the next couple of years.


I'm not trying to be mean when I say this, but everyone here really likes complaining. I'd like to see ways we can try to keep this going. We are a very good team, and I'd like to keep it that way for another long stretch.


Last edited by CS: 05-06-2010 at 05:04 AM.
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05-06-2010, 03:34 PM
  #194
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We are not trying to be a window team. I don't know why everyone sees it that way. We have an incredible young core assembled that we need to build around while we're pushing for a championship in the next couple of years.
It's because we're committed to two aging defensemen for a number of years. Restocking the team as they age is going to be a delicate maneuver and who really believes Holmgren can do it?

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05-24-2010, 09:24 PM
  #195
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.... just saying

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05-24-2010, 09:29 PM
  #196
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05-24-2010, 09:41 PM
  #197
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Call back when we've won the Cup.

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05-24-2010, 10:13 PM
  #198
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I never wanted him fired... I don't even know if I posted in the Fire Homer threads...

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05-25-2010, 07:11 AM
  #199
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It's hard not to say the players themselves overcame a lot of his bad ideas, moves.... not sure he gets the credit for Richards becoming what he has, or Giroux for that matter........... maybe he's a genius for letting Leighton go after 4 games and then stocking the Goaltender position with question marks only to pick Leighton back up on waivers, from his 7th team because his new team didn't need him either...... Oh Holmgren you GENIUS!!!!!!!!! Now how do we fit Jones into his premeditated moves to make the players want to play for each other and some stellar defense in front of their goaltender much later on??????

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05-25-2010, 07:24 AM
  #200
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Homer has done a great job. Made some mistakes, but it is impossible not to. I LOVE the fact that he is making people eat their words now. I never wanted him fired and never will. Leighton signing was huge....Emery was a solid #1 no matter how many people would like to admit it. Boosh did his job. Carcillo. BETTS! OKT and a 5th for Leino????????WHA????. Bringing in Lavi (although it should have been earlier). Pronger! Lappy. Signing guys that needed to be signed. Not signing guys who would have cost too much or we just didn’t have room for (where are they now?).

Hopefully when all is said and done Homer finally gets the respect just like 'what’s his face' with the Phils. Homer deserves some respect. A lot of fair weather fans, but I'm hoping this town becomes a Hockey town again! I had 610 WIP on this morning and you wouldn’t believe it....THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT HOCKEY! That's a huge accomplishment for Homer. JOB WELL DONE!

One more thing...Krajicek looked pretty damn good out there last night!

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