HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Rd. 2, Gm. 3: Bruins @ Flyers - May 5, 2010 - 7:00 PM (ET)

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-06-2010, 03:01 PM
  #726
Kaktus*
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: PA
Posts: 22,389
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
After this, we're supposed to expect Holmgren to ask Hartnell to waive his NTC? That's like asking a parent to pick between their children.
He is going to have to do something.


Fans speculate that it might be Briere or Hartnell or Carle.

I can speculate that Flyers can trade Timonen (much more desirable player that has a lot more value) for a young affordable RFA RW winger with size that can score 20 or over goals and/or very good 3rd line center with size and a pick in process. Turn around and sign Hamhuis and Volchnekov that will total around 7.3M a year for much younger Volchenkov and Hamhuis and give 6 years deals to both.

Kaktus* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2010, 03:05 PM
  #727
Valhoun*
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: West Chester, PA
Posts: 10,311
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Valhoun*
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
He is going to have to do something.


Fans speculate that it might be Briere or Hartnell or Carle.

I can speculate that Flyers can trade Timonen (much more desirable player that has a lot more value) for a young affordable RFA RW winger with size that can score 20 or over goals and/or very good 3rd line center with size and a pick up a decent prospect or a pick in process. Turn around and sign Hamhuis and Volchnekov that will total around 7.3M a year for much younger Volchenkov and Hamhuis and give 6 years deals to both.
Homer pretty much stated that he can trade Hartnell (or anyone with a NTC) whenever he wants during the offseason. No one wants to play for a team that doesn't want them. Well, except for Toronto defensemen...

Valhoun* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2010, 03:07 PM
  #728
Kaktus*
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: PA
Posts: 22,389
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valhoun View Post
Homer pretty much stated that he can trade Hartnell (or anyone with a NTC) whenever he wants during the offseason. No one wants to play for a team that doesn't want them. Well, except for Toronto defensemen...
Then we have no issues. Everyone is tradeable on our roster and Homer is a super GM that can do megic.


Can not wait.

Kaktus* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2010, 03:14 PM
  #729
GKJ
Global Moderator
Entertainment
 
GKJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Do not trade plz
Country: United States
Posts: 111,815
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valhoun View Post
Homer pretty much stated that he can trade Hartnell (or anyone with a NTC) whenever he wants during the offseason. No one wants to play for a team that doesn't want them. Well, except for Toronto defensemen...
All of Toronto. Sundin and Tucker didn't want to leave either.

GKJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2010, 03:38 PM
  #730
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
He probably did but it did not help Hartnell, Homer or the fans. If Homer can do it, I am all up for it. Do you think he can do it?
Do I think Homer can? Yes. Do I think he will? Who knows. Do I think he should? Not sure, I think Hartnell had an unfortunate down year (who knows why), but has done a lot of good things in two of the three seasons he's been here.

Quote:
Different player, different accomplsihements, different contract. Crappy salary was coming back lesser players.
Same situation...player didn't want to go anywhere, but when faced with going on the waiver wire, he opened up to a trade. Whether we can make a deal with Hartnell is a completely different issue, but without the protection of a NMC, the team does have some leverage to get Hartnell to waive his NTC.

Quote:
So what if no one picks him up? I mean Cheechoo was not picked up but you think teams will line up for average 40-45pts, leader in minor penalties with 3 years at 4.2M a year. I do not know about that? There is always a chance.. just like there is a chance that we can come back from 3:0.
Cheechoo's game has steadily fallen apart over a three year period, and doesn't bring any of the intangibles that Hartnell does. Hartnell has one down year, I think people will still be interested in him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
I've put the injuries in it's proper context. However, in light of those injuries, NO ONE stepped up when they needed someone to step up. This isn't about Jared Ross, it's about the guys who you pay to do it, and the staff who are employed to cover the 'what if' scenarios as best as possible. This team fell short in both places. A sign that this team was NOT a true contender as they tried to lead us to believe they were.
No you haven't. You've treated them as small issues that the team should easily be able to overcome. Teams don't overcome these types of injuries with much regularity...especially when you start talking about goalies getting hurt.

Quote:
Hopefully enough to make up for lost revenue of unplayed home games.
What?

Quote:
Only because the organization made it clear that we are to hold them to that his year. So, now I'm supposed to hold them to a different standard when it's okay to? Now, it's a humbling lesson that you can't be a gunslinger in this day and age of the NHL (more of what I anticipated).
The organization made it clear that you should ignore events as they happen, and base your analysis on the situation in August and September, no matter what?

No they didn't.

Quote:
No rookie excuses. I wasn't letting the rookie thing go last year with Sbisa, I didn't do with in 2006 when we had two rookies and a hack making up our 2nd line, I'm not going to this year either.
Well, at least you're consistently irrational with ridiculous expectations of rookies. Simple fact: you should EXPECT rookies to hit the wall in the 2nd half of the season.

Quote:
The best teams are usually the ones who get lucky, and it's not because of luck that they're good.
You need to re-read this sentence and contemplate if you can just take out the term "luck" and say that good teams win because they're good.

Quote:
Certainly sounds like a team that toils around in the middle of the standings. Not bad enough to be terrible, not good enough to be a contender. Now, injury problems will put you in the 7-hole, but during the course of the regular season, there wasn't a ton of debilitating injuries (other than the goaltenders of course). Gagne's offense was MIA between his injury and the Olympics. Parent was the only one who missed a lengthy amount of time on defense. Pronger, Carle, Coburn, and Timonen all played at least 80 games. That kind of health from your top 4 defensemen is off the charts. Other than that, it was Betts and Powe. I mean, imagine if Ross (3), Laliberte (11) and Nodl (10) were needed to play more than that in bigger roles
.

There wasn't a ton of debilitating injuries...

We lost Emery...starting goalie.
Then Boucher got hurt...starting goalie at the time.
Then Leighton got hurt...starting goalie at the time.

Our second best goal scorer had his entire season ruined by injuries.

Our best goal scorer got hurt in the stretch of the season (if he hadn't gotten hurt, we likely would have coasted to the 6 seed).

Quote:
This was a team that was supposed to cover up whatever they weren't getting in net, right? "It's how the Red Wings do it." They were supposed to be able to put you and me in net and win games.
I've always said that thought process was complete and utter crap. Just ask Shafer. More than fair to criticize them for their approach, but "they said they were really good" and now I'm going to invent some hypothetical world that should be so in order to criticize the real world... seriously?

Quote:
This 'stretch of suck' is a significant portion of the season.

If you want to talk about luck, the Flyers are lucky that the Rangers and Thrashers sucked enough behind them.
Flyers weren't "lucky," they were better than both of those teams.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2010, 03:59 PM
  #731
Kaktus*
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: PA
Posts: 22,389
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Do I think Homer can? Yes. Do I think he will? Who knows. Do I think he should? Not sure, I think Hartnell had an unfortunate down year (who knows why), but has done a lot of good things in two of the three seasons he's been here.
He's done a lot of bad things too. Average work ethic, crappy penalties that cost us games, below average on D, below average in playoffs. Overpaid from day one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Same situation...player didn't want to go anywhere, but when faced with going on the waiver wire, he opened up to a trade. Whether we can make a deal with Hartnell is a completely different issue, but without the protection of a NMC, the team does have some leverage to get Hartnell to waive his NTC.
Boyle was and still is top 15 defensmen that was injured and traded by iditos Bolts managers that know **** about hockey. Who the **** wants Hartnell that much, he MAY have some value. Come on now, like I said earlier no one lines up to get him. He is probably tradeable tough so lets hope we can swap him for a good goalie.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Cheechoo's game has steadily fallen apart over a three year period, and doesn't bring any of the intangibles that Hartnell does. Hartnell has one down year, I think people will still be interested in him.
His 1st year with the Flyers was very average too. So it's more like 2 years to me.

Kaktus* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2010, 04:28 PM
  #732
Slowbro
Registered User
 
Slowbro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: New Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 903
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post


Flyers weren't "lucky," they were better than both of those teams.
no.. the flyers are definitely lucky to be in the playoffs.

Slowbro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2010, 04:30 PM
  #733
JLHockeyKnight
IMA Real American
 
JLHockeyKnight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: North Central Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 19,438
vCash: 500
When did this thread turn into an essay contest?

JLHockeyKnight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2010, 04:32 PM
  #734
GKJ
Global Moderator
Entertainment
 
GKJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Do not trade plz
Country: United States
Posts: 111,815
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
No you haven't. You've treated them as small issues that the team should easily be able to overcome. Teams don't overcome these types of injuries with much regularity...especially when you start talking about goalies getting hurt.
No, I'm treating them as the team indicated I should expect -- that they had enough invested in the rest of the team, to at the very least not be on the brink if being swept by the Bruins. Unreasonable only because the organization was being unreasonable to begin with. Whenever someone gets hurt, they're just supposed to roll over and die. It's ok to lose if you're not healthy? No way.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
The organization made it clear that you should ignore events as they happen, and base your analysis on the situation in August and September, no matter what?

No they didn't.
Yeah they did. They were unprepared to resolve injury situations as evidenced by their inability to make any quick-fix trades (unless you consider Leino one, but he wasn't put into many prime scoring roles). In 2008 - a year when we were just trying to get on the way back, they trade for Prospal, which gave a decent boost to our offense.

This year it's "what can you do?" They either didn't expect to have injuries, or expected to be able to find solutions within their own camp. That's what that says to me. "We don't need to make any trades or bring in anyone (as if we could anyways, lol). We're confident that we have the players here to step up if they're needed. All we need is a third goalie to fall into our laps at about ~$300K cap hit, and we're good."

It could just be a matter that this team isn't built for the playoffs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Well, at least you're consistently irrational with ridiculous expectations of rookies. Simple fact: you should EXPECT rookies to hit the wall in the 2nd half of the season.
Well, hopefully that's heard loud and clear. The line itself has been pretty consistent. However, we're trying to win a Stanley Cup here. The only thing I ask for rookies is that they're not put in a position to fail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
You need to re-read this sentence and contemplate if you can just take out the term "luck" and say that good teams win because they're good.
You might win a game or two on pure luck, but not a 7-game series, and certainly not a Stanley Cup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
There wasn't a ton of debilitating injuries...

We lost Emery...starting goalie.
Then Boucher got hurt...starting goalie at the time.
Then Leighton got hurt...starting goalie at the time.

Our second best goal scorer had his entire season ruined by injuries.

Our best goal scorer got hurt in the stretch of the season (if he hadn't gotten hurt, we likely would have coasted to the 6 seed).
You're not a contender when you're consistently hovering around #6.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I've always said that thought process was complete and utter crap. Just ask Shafer. More than fair to criticize them for their approach, but "they said they were really good" and now I'm going to invent some hypothetical world that should be so in order to criticize the real world... seriously?
And it's another fundamental flaw in the team's philosophy, that we've been told is going to be addressed this year. Would've been nice if they did that last summer of course, maybe we wouldn't be in this position.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Flyers weren't "lucky," they were better than both of those teams.
The luck thing works itself out amongst the good teams, and the bad ones. I'd say they were lucky to draw the Devils in round 1.

GKJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2010, 04:47 PM
  #735
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by triqsix View Post
no.. the flyers are definitely lucky to be in the playoffs.
Are you going to argue that the Rangers are "better" than us? How about Atlanta?

We're the better team. You can attribute that to luck, but the better team of the three made it in. Hell, we finished ahead of Montreal too.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2010, 04:48 PM
  #736
UseYourAllusion
Registered User
 
UseYourAllusion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Philly
Country: United States
Posts: 6,873
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLHockeyKnight View Post
When did this thread turn into an essay contest?
I'm trying to keep up, but it's way more reading than I want to do.

UseYourAllusion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2010, 04:49 PM
  #737
Jules801
Just Some Broad
 
Jules801's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Good Ol' Glassboro
Country: Israel
Posts: 6,489
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLHockeyKnight View Post
When did this thread turn into an essay contest?

Jules801 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2010, 04:50 PM
  #738
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
You're not a contender when you're consistently hovering around #6.
No ****. And I never thought they were a contender, and, therefore, am not going to start criticizing 'em in this series against Boston as if they were a contender and should be playing like a contender. That's before addressing the serious injuries that even further removed them from being a contender.

You're acting like they aren't a seriously injured, wannabe. That's what they are. You want to criticize Homer for the state of affairs, go for it. But getting on the players for the state of affairs is just plain crap. They are what they are.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2010, 04:53 PM
  #739
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
He's done a lot of bad things too. Average work ethic, crappy penalties that cost us games, below average on D, below average in playoffs. Overpaid from day one.
That he has, but he most certainly wasn't overpaid last year.

Quote:
Boyle was and still is top 15 defensmen that was injured and traded by iditos Bolts managers that know **** about hockey. Who the **** wants Hartnell that much, he MAY have some value. Come on now, like I said earlier no one lines up to get him. He is probably tradeable tough so lets hope we can swap him for a good goalie.
TB couldn't afford him. Same reason they dealt Richards.

Quote:
His 1st year with the Flyers was very average too. So it's more like 2 years to me.
His first year was a terrible first half paired with an excellent 2nd half. So, sure, average, but nothing to be too down about. Certainly much better than this year.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2010, 04:58 PM
  #740
BringBackStevens
Registered User
 
BringBackStevens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 12,305
vCash: 500
Can someone find an example of a team making the finals, let alone winning the cup missing their top scoring center and top winger?

I can't think of any. It's funny how people are so gung ho about holding the organization to a high standard that they want to pretend that what they expect given the injuries is at all based on reality.

BringBackStevens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2010, 05:12 PM
  #741
GKJ
Global Moderator
Entertainment
 
GKJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Do not trade plz
Country: United States
Posts: 111,815
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
No ****. And I never thought they were a contender, and, therefore, am not going to start criticizing 'em in this series against Boston as if they were a contender and should be playing like a contender. That's before addressing the serious injuries that even further removed them from being a contender.

You're acting like they aren't a seriously injured, wannabe. That's what they are. You want to criticize Homer for the state of affairs, go for it. But getting on the players for the state of affairs is just plain crap. They are what they are.
I got on the whole team, not just the players themselves.

However, it is fair to point out those who haven't answered the bell when their team has needed them. To some, it is still a learning experience (JVR). Others, they're a steaming pile of fail (Hartnell). You're never going to get over the top if your guys are given enough reasons not to.

They shouldn't be down 3-0 no matter what. We all know this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Inebriator View Post
Can someone find an example of a team making the finals, let alone winning the cup missing their top scoring center and top winger?

I can't think of any. It's funny how people are so gung ho about holding the organization to a high standard that they want to pretend that what they expect given the injuries is at all based on reality.
Well...what can you do? Boston lost Sturm on the first shift of Game 1. So Gagne and Sturm wash out.

GKJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2010, 05:25 PM
  #742
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
I got on the whole team, not just the players themselves.

However, it is fair to point out those who haven't answered the bell when their team has needed them. To some, it is still a learning experience (JVR). Others, they're a steaming pile of fail (Hartnell). You're never going to get over the top if your guys are given enough reasons not to.

They shouldn't be down 3-0 no matter what. We all know this.
Shoulda, coulda, woulda...you're acting as if they've embarrassed themselves out there. They came back from a two goal deficit to force OT in Game 1, and played well until the 3rd period of Game 2--where our premier guys got nuked by a run of PKs they had to kill off--and lost late in the game.

The entire basis of your criticism is based off a perception that they are better than they are...largely because you believe that's what you were told to believe (while, oddly, acknowledging that you disagreed with that assessment from the outset).

Quote:
Well...what can you do? Boston lost Sturm on the first shift of Game 1. So Gagne and Sturm wash out.
Sturm != Gagne

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2010, 05:40 PM
  #743
GKJ
Global Moderator
Entertainment
 
GKJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Do not trade plz
Country: United States
Posts: 111,815
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Shoulda, coulda, woulda...you're acting as if they've embarrassed themselves out there. They came back from a two goal deficit to force OT in Game 1, and played well until the 3rd period of Game 2--where our premier guys got nuked by a run of PKs they had to kill off--and lost late in the game.
Nope, actually I didn't say that. I said something to the tune that Boston is just getting that extra thing done to put the game in the win column, and don't deserve to be blown out of games really.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
The entire basis of your criticism is based off a perception that they are better than they are...largely because you believe that's what you were told to believe (while, oddly, acknowledging that you disagreed with that assessment from the outset).
About that, yeah. I thought we're supposed to drink the kool aid, since they know better than us...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Sturm != Gagne
Yeah...about that. I mean all things considered.

GKJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2010, 06:28 PM
  #744
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Nope, actually I didn't say that. I said something to the tune that Boston is just getting that extra thing done to put the game in the win column, and don't deserve to be blown out of games really.
No, you said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
They've been better pretty much across the board. I knew from the start that down the middle that they wouldn't be able to match up against the Bruins centers (Krejci getting hurt helps, but Sobotka ain't so bad). Pronger could be equalized by Zdneo Chara. But if this team was truly a real Stanley Cup contender, this series wouldn't be 3-0.
It's actually been a really friggin even series as far as play, outside of some stretches. But, hell, we absolutely dominated stretches of last nights game and still lost. The story of this series you've been stating is specifically NOT one of them getting that extra thing done, "they've been better pretty much across the board."

Well, as said, I then need someone to explain to me why Games 1 & 2 were so close, and we controlled play for large stretches of Game 3.

Quote:
About that, yeah. I thought we're supposed to drink the kool aid, since they know better than us...?
I don't even know how to formulate a response to that.

Quote:
Yeah...about that. I mean all things considered.
All things considered... Sturm != Gagne.

Moreover, these two teams approach the game very differently...and Boston's approach is much more forgiving to lack of skill in their lineup. They rely on their goalie, and just need everyone on the same page systemically. We, on the other hand, really rely on the skill of our forwards to play an up tempo game. So you start taking away those skill guys and it shows real fast.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2010, 06:35 PM
  #745
GKJ
Global Moderator
Entertainment
 
GKJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Do not trade plz
Country: United States
Posts: 111,815
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
No, you said:
And then I said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
They're not dominating, but they've still been the better team in goal, better team on defense, and better team on offense. People thought that the Bruins had a weak defense and if we could walk over the Devils, that the Bruins with a supposed suspect defense and rookie goaltender would pose some problems, but not enough to lose the first 3 games of the series. After Game 1, the Bruins iron-clad PK wasn't so iron clad until, well, Game 2.

You can be better at everything without winning games 6-1.

GKJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2010, 06:52 PM
  #746
JXC
#LaviPondHockeyFail
 
JXC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 13,898
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by claude boivin lives View Post
They're also not getting a mini-breakaway there if Pronger doesn't suddenly morph into Chris Therien's mentally challenged twin.
LOL.

JXC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2010, 06:54 PM
  #747
JXC
#LaviPondHockeyFail
 
JXC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 13,898
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLHockeyKnight View Post
When did this thread turn into an essay contest?
Dude - you've been here for four years!

JXC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2010, 07:01 PM
  #748
JXC
#LaviPondHockeyFail
 
JXC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 13,898
vCash: 500
"I offered to help you... You refused to take our money."

Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
And then I said:
"I guess you're really up S*** Creek."

JXC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2010, 10:14 PM
  #749
JLHockeyKnight
IMA Real American
 
JLHockeyKnight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: North Central Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 19,438
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JXC View Post
Dude - you've been here for four years!
Good point. I should make a thread for them, called "The Jester-Kaktus-GKJ Banter Back and Forth Thread."

JLHockeyKnight is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:11 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.