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Old
05-10-2010, 08:33 PM
  #1001
JDM
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Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
I don't. That's why I'm saying it was just a baseless rumor because no one really seems to know the truth. Besides, IF Cammy did ask for $6 mil, don't you think it was more of a counter offer to DL's 2 mil offer?

But like you said, it's all water under the bridge, a bridge which will be revisited for many more years to come.
It may technically be unsubstantiated and sufficiently vetted, but 6m is far from baseless.

I'm inclined to believe DIEHARDs explanation as making more sense. That Cammy used Vanek to make a stand and the 2mill was the counter.

Does anyone know if there is a standard in arbitration of who presents their offer first?

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05-10-2010, 08:34 PM
  #1002
Zad
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Originally Posted by DIEHARD the King fan View Post
Yes, Cammy's agent did ask for 6MM as an opening offer. [source: DL, private STH meeting which I and Jr attended]

But, DL also knew that Cammy as the NHLPA was trying to use the Vanek 7MM for 7 yrs offer sheet to pull up league wide the salaries of players like himself.

DL lowballed him in response.

That is all business. Fine. GM's make business deccisions all the time.

BUT DL went far further and basically called him a POS. (see my quote on the previous page . . . "he's not a surfer, etc") That was DL's quote , not my analogy. He called him the other stuff that floats in the water. If thats not personal, I have no idea whatever could be.

All I know is that a guy who scores 39 in one season, who scores 26 in 65 games the next, who scores 11 goals in the playoffs through 13 games, to lead the league can FLAT OUT PLAY. He's the kind of one dimensional stuff that just floats around that our team doesnt curently possess but sure could have used.

DL is not perfect and he screwed the pooch on the Cammy situation. Never let it be said that DL doesnt't take it (business) personally, as I have maintained since June of '08 when I learned of reasons to know.

No one can say Cammy never would have done what he has done with the Kings because we never got to the playoffs for him to show it. So when DL resorts to those types of arguments, see I them for what they are baseless specualtion that some on this board want to believe becasue they have unconditionally attached their hopes and dreams for the KINGS to DL. Others have had to. While I am impressed by the development, we haven't won squat yet.

But we did jettison a real player for, at best, a number 5-6 defenseman who wont make an impact for at least 3-4 years, if ever.
I had forgotten about the personal comment. Also unfortunately part of business. Do you remember how upset you and I were when the trade was made? I do. The only thing that helped sooth the anger was Cammy's own comment - something akin to always wanting to play in Canada and now he gets to do it. That was kind of a **** you as well.

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Old
05-10-2010, 08:38 PM
  #1003
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What exactly is a private STH meeting?
It's a private meeting between DIEHARD and Lombardi that occurs each season. A bit of a circle jerk if you ask me.

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Old
05-10-2010, 08:40 PM
  #1004
The Black1963
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It's a private meeting between DIEHARD and Lombardi that occurs each season. A bit of a circle jerk if you ask me.
Why? Is Lombardi also a psychiatrist?

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Old
05-10-2010, 08:43 PM
  #1005
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Originally Posted by JDM View Post
It may technically be unsubstantiated and sufficiently vetted, but 6m is far from baseless.

I'm inclined to believe DIEHARDs explanation as making more sense. That Cammy used Vanek to make a stand and the 2mill was the counter.

Does anyone know if there is a standard in arbitration of who presents their offer first?
Cammy, Cammy, Cammy!

Let it go sport! Water under the bridge, don't you know?

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Old
05-10-2010, 08:46 PM
  #1006
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Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
Why? Is Lombardi also a psychiatrist?
No, it's nothing like that.

Lombardi dated DIEHARD's younger sister or maybe it was an older sister, whatever it was, they are practically related as DIEHARD then dated and married Dean's cousin on his mother's side.

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Old
05-10-2010, 08:47 PM
  #1007
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Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
What exactly is a private STH meeting?
In 2008, immedaitely befoer the draft, facing a dropping STH base, increasing fan ire, and much doubting of the rebuild, the Kings invited a very limited number of longtime STH's to private STH meetings with DL, held at Toyota Training Center. There were two such meetings of which I am aware, maybe more.

All topics were open, no holds were barred, and DL welcomed the opportunity. hexy was present as was Chris McGowan, Kelly Cheesman, Mike Alteri and many other Kings management personel. There were seven people, including myself and Jr. in the meeting, all of us not very happy.

Too long of a history to explain in detail what happened, but alot of this is written in Old threads, primarily by me and discussed with many others in PM's

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Old
05-10-2010, 08:49 PM
  #1008
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Originally Posted by Zad View Post
It's a private meeting between DIEHARD and Lombardi that occurs each season. A bit of a circle jerk if you ask me.
ROFLMAO, literally, after 3 Sam Adam's Imperial Whites

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Old
05-10-2010, 08:54 PM
  #1009
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What did Calgary get for Cammy? Oh yeah, nothing.

Dean got what he could for a pending FA with zero playoff experience.

Dean made a call and was wrong. It happens.

Detroit got nothing for Quincey. Dean turned him into Smyyh and got rid of Priessings contract.

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Old
05-10-2010, 08:59 PM
  #1010
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Originally Posted by DIEHARD the King fan View Post
ROFLMAO, literally, after 3 Sam Adam's Imperial Whites
That could have developed into something epic. I had the great follow ups percolating. You blew it. You owe me a beer.

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Old
05-10-2010, 09:33 PM
  #1011
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Lombardi is an arrogant idiot, he sure has quite the ego and mouth for a guy who has accomplished nothing in the NHL. I don't want him to fail because it would be bad for the Kings, but it's hard to root for someone like him. Instead of trashing Cammy and Berenson he should look in the mirror.

Dan Cloutier
Rob Blake
Colten Teubert
Kyle Calder
John Zeiler
Trevor Lewis
Justin Williams
Tom Preissing

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Old
05-10-2010, 09:33 PM
  #1012
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Originally Posted by Zad View Post
That could have developed into something epic. I had the great follow ups percolating. You blew it. You owe me a beer.
Better get one soon, i've got company coming over and I'm drinking em all tonight!

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Old
05-10-2010, 09:37 PM
  #1013
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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
What did Calgary get for Cammy? Oh yeah, nothing.

Dean got what he could for a pending FA with zero playoff experience.

Dean made a call and was wrong. It happens.

Detroit got nothing for Quincey. Dean turned him into Smyyh and got rid of Priessings contract.
Peronally, I think you're wearing rose colored glasses, but if you're OK with trading away Cammy, AND a 1st, for a guy who might be a bottom pairing defenseman in 3 years...then fine. That's your opinion.

But I think, that Cammalleri, as an asset, was completely mismanaged. If DL didn't like him, and didn't see him as part of the plan, he should have traded him right after his 80 point season. The return for a 24yo, 80point player, with 2 years of restricted free agency to go, could have been very, very, substantial. But instead, DL waited, and moved Cammalleri when his value was at a low point, instead of a high point.

TERRIBLE asset management.

What was DL waiting for? The chances of his value increasing from that point were slim to none. He flubbed the whole situation.

All this being said, overall he's done a good job. He just screwed this situation up in particular, but you can't argue with results. I give him a B-

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Old
05-10-2010, 09:42 PM
  #1014
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Originally Posted by DIEHARD the King fan View Post
Better get one soon, i've got company coming over and I'm drinking em all tonight!
I meant good beer, not the ram piss I have seen you drink.

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Old
05-10-2010, 09:44 PM
  #1015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herby View Post
Lombardi is an arrogant idiot, he sure has quite the ego and mouth for a guy who has accomplished nothing in the NHL. I don't want him to fail because it would be bad for the Kings, but it's hard to root for someone like him. Instead of trashing Cammy and Berenson he should look in the mirror.

Dan Cloutier
Rob Blake
Colten Teubert
Kyle Calder
John Zeiler
Trevor Lewis
Justin Williams
Tom Preissing
Alyn McCauly
Marc Crawfod
Passed on Bryzgalov (Although that might have costed us Doughty)

He traded away Demitra for O'Sullivan and Lewis. That one is looking pretty bad right now.

But he has also made some good moves. We're in alot better situation now then we were before him.

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Old
05-10-2010, 09:47 PM
  #1016
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Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
Alyn McCauly
Marc Crawfod

He traded away Demitra for O'Sullivan and Lewis. That one is looking pretty bad right now.

But he has also made some good moves. We're in alot better situation now then we were before him.
Really? I'd gladly take Lewis over Demitra alone.

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Old
05-10-2010, 09:47 PM
  #1017
Sydor25
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I agree that Dean could have received more by trading Cammy earlier, but I believe the mandate was to be competitive. If Dean knew the Kings would battle for the top pick in the draft, he would have moved Cammy earlier. Dean got the okay to play the kids that off season. Cammy was no longer part of the plan. Teubert is only 20. Give him time.

**** happens. No ones perfect. I would rather move on. It's an impossible argument with too many "ifs".

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Old
05-10-2010, 09:48 PM
  #1018
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Originally Posted by Zad View Post
I meant good beer, not the ram piss I have seen you drink.
Thats Golden Horn Ram Piss. Consider yourself corrected.

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Old
05-10-2010, 09:52 PM
  #1019
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Oh yeah, Montreal and Pittsburgh are heading to a game seven.

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Old
05-10-2010, 09:56 PM
  #1020
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herby View Post
Lombardi is an arrogant idiot, he sure has quite the ego and mouth for a guy who has accomplished nothing in the NHL. I don't want him to fail because it would be bad for the Kings, but it's hard to root for someone like him. Instead of trashing Cammy and Berenson he should look in the mirror.

Dan Cloutier
Rob Blake
Colten Teubert
Kyle Calder
John Zeiler
Trevor Lewis
Justin Williams
Tom Preissing
I don't see that at all, also he has accomplished quite a bit, most things short of winning a cup. As for these players:

Dan Cloutier - alright, this is a legitimate complaint
Rob Blake - while terrible for the fans, this was a good signing for the team
Colten Teubert - really? The kid hasn't even played a professional game yet
Kyle Calder - he was a filler, Lombardi picked up many of them, his objective was always to build through the draft and hire filler players in the meantime
John Zeiler - What? He is a 4th line energy player that is mostly a career AHL'er. I don't see how this is a complaint, either he plays on our fourth line or helps Manchester.
Trevor Lewis - We will see this upcoming camp whether he is a bust or not, can still become a premier third liner.
Justin Williams - This one is up in the air right now, didn't do too well for us this year, but will have another season to redeem himself
Tom Preissing - Meh, another filler player and one who had a bit of promise coming off a career year with Ottawa. Who knew he was going to fall off the face of the earth?

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post

He traded away Demitra for O'Sullivan and Lewis. That one is looking pretty bad right now.
Demitra is a good player, but I wouldn't say that he was worth our Sully plus a first. The Oilers Sully plus a first maybe, but not ours. Lewis still has the ability to turn things around for himself, and Williams, while falling off at the end, will get another chance this upcoming season to see if he can put together a strong healthy season.

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Old
05-10-2010, 10:02 PM
  #1021
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I think the entire city of Montreal is going to shut down on Wednesday.

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Old
05-10-2010, 10:05 PM
  #1022
The Black1963
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Telos,

Just read your Kovy Kuote. Sounds like he may have already made up his mind and is just waiting for DL to make the offer in writing.

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Old
05-10-2010, 10:07 PM
  #1023
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Originally Posted by Telos View Post
Demitra is a good player, but I wouldn't say that he was worth our Sully plus a first. The Oilers Sully plus a first maybe, but not ours. Lewis still has the ability to turn things around for himself, and Williams, while falling off at the end, will get another chance this upcoming season to see if he can put together a strong healthy season.
At the time, DL got good value for Demitra. But I don't think either Lewis or O'Sullivan has turned out to be the players we hoped them to be thus far.

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Old
05-10-2010, 10:08 PM
  #1024
The Black1963
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I think the entire city of Montreal is going to shut down on Wednesday.
That will be up to Mayor Cammy.

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