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ATD 2010 Red Fisher Conference Final: Halifax Mooseheads vs. Vancouver Maroons

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Old
05-07-2010, 09:50 AM
  #26
hungryhungryhippy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
He's using the Gilmour line to match up, so Klukay and Luce don't really have a role.
I don't know why you keep bringing Gilmour's line up...

The only matchup I actually care about is Schmidt vs Boucher at home, other than that, I'm just going to be rolling all 3 top lines. The Klukay-Luce line will probably see more ice time than they usually do if we're trying to guard a lead.

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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
I'm not sure it does.

You have an elite goaltender and a very mediocre blueline. He has an elite blueline and a mediocre goalie.

I'd much rather have Orr and Esposito than Roy and Lapointe.
Without even getting into the flawed logic of only comparing the goalie and the #1 defensemen to come to a conclusion....

My defense is not "very mediocre", it's very average actually. My blueline is arguably better than or about equal to 12-15 other teams in this ATD. Esposito is a bottom 3 playoff starter in this thing.

Furthermore, my defensemen on each pairing compliment each other really well, and are greater than the sum of their parts. There is really no glaring weakness on my blue line, it's a pretty solid blueline that can get the job done in every aspect of the game.

Can you say the same about Esposito? You know... was he "solid" in the much weaker (compared to an ATD) NHL playoffs?

My defense can get the job done (and more), Halifax's goal tending though, will AT BEST, not hurt them more than having a bottom tier goalie already does.

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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
Yeah, but they kind of take away from each other's effectiveness. They can't all be checkers - somebody needs to score.
It's not difficult to understand the concept of forwards that can make an effort at both ends of the ice...

Schmidt, Gilmour, Bailey, and to some extent, Fleury, were all guys that put together ATD worthy careers while making a difference at both ends of the ice. In this series, they are "checkers" in the defensive and neutral zone, and "scorers" in the offensive zone.

Bure, Bauer, numerous turnovers, opportunities to sustain pressure if the zone is gained, etc...

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05-08-2010, 02:50 PM
  #27
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Summary of Arguments

Please take 5 minutes to read this post before voting! (there's a lot less writing than it looks like their is)


The Neutral Zone Trap:


- Vancouver will be playing a 1-4 Neutral zone trap to clog up the neutral zone, hinder the offensive ability of player's like Boucher, and in general, make this as low scoring a series as possible. The Maroons were built to play this style of low-scoring hockey, so Vancouver already has an advantage to start.

- Halifax's forwards are not suited to play against the trap, or play a dump and chase game. They need time and space to set up in the offensive zone to be effective. The 1st line for example, heavily relies on Boucher to be the offensive catalyst with his passing and vision, but the trap will hinder his ability to use his most effective assets. This line will have to play a dump and chase game that they are not adept at, and be much less effective than they usually would.

- The trap will cause Halifax's forwards to frequently turn the puck over in the neutral zone. This is where Vancouver intends to do the most damage, especially with Pavel Bure. He will be in the neutral zone waiting to intercept passes, or pounce on the turnovers, and utilize his EXPLOSIVE speed to break into the offensive zone for 1-on-1 opportunities with the defenseman, maybe even a breakaway or two.

- The trap will also begin to frustrate and aggravate the Halifax players that aren't used to it, and cause them to make bad mistakes and/or take bad penalties.

How Vancouver Scores:

- Vancouver will capitalize on Halifax's mistakes (turnovers that lead to sustained pressure or breakaways, Bure's explosive speed in 1-on-1 opportunities, PP opportunities) and get the minimal amount of scoring it needs to just hold the lead and grind out the 1-0, 2-1, and 3-2 wins.

The Forwards:

- Bure is the best goalscorer in the series, and Schmidt is the most dominant forward in the series.

- I plan on matching Schmidt against Boucher whenever possible, because Schmidt can dominate him physically and do a tremendous job of containing him defensively, while countering offensively. In this sense, Boucher is the odd man out amongst the 4 big centers (Schmidt, Boucher, Richard, Gilmour).

- Vancouver's Klukay-Luce are easily the best bottom-6 players on either team, they are elite checkers.

- Vancouver's forwards, once again, are the better two-way players in the series. This line up is chalk full of guys that put together ATD worthy careers at both ends of the ice. Vancouver will look to them to play tight, responsible, defensive hockey and make a difference in their own zone. The "team defense" concept is very important on this team, and imperative to this team's success.

Goaltending:

- Vancouver has THE greatest playoff goalie of all-time. Roy can stand on his head and hold the fort down for Vancouver when things might not be going great. He has the ability to steal a game, or even a series for Vancouver, and his clutch saves can dishearten the other team while building momentum for Vancouver.

- Esposito is a bottom-3 playoff starter. He's a lower tier starter who also has one of the most underwhelming playoff resumes. He regularly got an opportunity to play in the playoffs, but never backstopped his team to a single Stanley Cup. He has an under .500 winning record in the playoffs, a GAA that ballooned from the regular season to the playoffs, and some disastrous performances. Esposito has the potential to be exploited, and cost his team the series.

- It's important to note that Halifax's top lines don't really have a net presence (or much physicality), so Roy's job will be pretty easy and he'll get to see all the perimeter shots.

- The only significant weakness on either of these two very, very, good teams is Esposito.

Regarding Bobby Orr:

- This is the All-Time Draft, a league of the greatest players in history, and it's important to remember that everything is relative. Obviously, Orr is not going to be as dominant as he was in real life or get away with everything that he could get away with against weaker competition

- Orr has a serious defensive responsibility in his own zone, against strong ATD competition. Orr can not realistically be expected to carry the puck up ice for Halifax's forwards every time, when that's their job. No matter how good you are, turnovers happens, passes get intercepted, etc.. against the trap, and when they do, Orr will be caught out of position and his team will pay the price. Because of the trap, Orr will have to be more cautious, and let his forwards carry the puck up ice more often than not.

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05-08-2010, 03:09 PM
  #28
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Good luck Stalberg! I hope you can get at least some comments in today before the voting, otherwise, it's just not fair to you.

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05-08-2010, 04:28 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hungryhungryhippy View Post
[B][SIZE="4"]I
- Orr has a serious defensive responsibility in his own zone, against strong ATD competition. Orr can not realistically be expected to carry the puck up ice for Halifax's forwards every time, when that's their job. No matter how good you are, turnovers happens, passes get intercepted, etc.. against the trap, and when they do, Orr will be caught out of position and his team will pay the price. Because of the trap, Orr will have to be more cautious, and let his forwards carry the puck up ice more often than not.
Orr is definitely facing much better competition here. Nobody can tell me that the Bruins didn't run up the score against the watered down opposition of the 1970s.

On the other hand, Orr is one of the fastest players in the ATD. In real life, he was said to be fast enough to get back in the play on time even when caught up ice 95+% of the time.

Bure probably is in Orr's league speedwise so he'll have to be careful if Bure is on the ice. Bure is a double-edged sword here. I can't see him trapping effectively, but Orr definitely needs to be wary of Bure's speed when Orr is up ice.

On the other hand, I'm not sure if any of Vancouver's other players are really known for their speed.

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05-08-2010, 10:18 PM
  #30
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so when do we vote

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05-08-2010, 10:30 PM
  #31
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....

Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
Voting Day Sunday
send all votes to VanIslander

Send in votes earlier if you won't be around Sunday but otherwise contribute/follow the conference finals threads until the weekend.

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05-11-2010, 11:00 AM
  #32
VanIslander
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ATD 2010 conference final result:

The Vancouver Maroons DEFEAT the Halifax Mooseheads in 6 games.

The three stars of the series:

1. Bobby Orr, Mooseheads
2. Patrick Roy, Maroons
3. Pavel Bure, Maroons

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05-11-2010, 11:10 AM
  #33
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Congrats HHH. I wish I could have got my comments in but work took over as it has been the past few weeks. You made some great arguments, I'd like to think I could have made things more interesting with some of my thoughts though.

It's definitely best to have someone who will be able to comment frequently moving on to the finals, so good luck!

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05-11-2010, 02:47 PM
  #34
hungryhungryhippy
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Originally Posted by Stalberg View Post
Congrats HHH. I wish I could have got my comments in but work took over as it has been the past few weeks. You made some great arguments, I'd like to think I could have made things more interesting with some of my thoughts though.

It's definitely best to have someone who will be able to comment frequently moving on to the finals, so good luck!
Thanks Stalberg. You also have a great team, one of my favorite 3, and congratulations on making it as far. It would've been a great series, surely closer, if you had been able to defend your team. Your career obviously takes precedent though.

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05-11-2010, 03:12 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by hungryhungryhippy View Post
Thanks Stalberg. You also have a great team, one of my favorite 3, and congratulations on making it as far. It would've been a great series, surely closer, if you had been able to defend your team. Your career obviously takes precedent though.
Yeah, I'm in the middle of a professional program as well so I have to do homework on the weekends and work all week and sometimes on the weekends as well. It doesn't help that the ATD coincided perfectly with tax season either though, as I usually wouldn't work as much as I have been at other times during the year.

You definitely had one of my top 5 favourites in this draft from the start as well, FWIW.

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