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Beginners and high-end sticks

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Old
05-08-2010, 10:44 AM
  #26
Jarick
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Where are sticks costing $250? I know I've seen sticks for $200. $70 is cheap and you get what you pay for.

Shooting is incredibly complex and takes a great deal of skill and practice. But your average beginner who's 5'9 and 150 pounds will be unable to flex a wood stick cut down to length...guaranteed. Might have an okay slapper but leaving power on the table.

Like I said, it requires a lot of practice and some instruction, so until you're really learning to shoot, the composite has no benefit. Hell, I'd say that over half the guys on my team don't flex their stick and have proper technique and they've been playing for years.

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Old
05-08-2010, 11:45 AM
  #27
nystromshairstylist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donGjohnson View Post
Look guys, beginners should avoid anything other than wood sticks for several reasons. 1) Beginners don't know what flex/lie/curve they need and that WILL change as they improve. Most beginners skate upright and need a high lie but as they improve, they skate properly with more knee bend, the puck further in front and have to switch to a lower lie. A lot of hockey players don't realize this and have problems stick handling for a long time because they're using an improper lie.

2) The forgiveness of wood blades are still usually the best. I see many beginners who can't catch a pass to save their lives because they've just taken up hockey and are using a a really stiff composite blade. This also affects stick handling.

3) Players often improve their shooting technique and shooting muscle strength as they improve, so they often need a stiffer flex.

Simply put, for beginners, wood is often best.
Agreed, as I'm still early in my career as a complete scrub, and have tried out several different sticks. I borrowed a composite for a few minutes during practice and wasn't comfortable with it due to its super lightweightness. I've tried several different woodies, including the sher-wood PMP7000 and Bauer One55, and will try the PMP9950 over the next week or so, but have generally settled on the sherwoods.

For a noob, the feel of catching a pass or making one with a woodie is much easier, I haven't worked on shooting really yet because my other skills are so dreadful and require much more focus - like functional skating - but do have a sort of wrister that I can put on net from 25 feet in.

My plan is to stay with woodies for a while, maybe another year as my primary stick, and a fellow whom I intrinsically trust at the LBS store (Darius at Westside skate here in NYC) suggested getting a decent composite over the coming months to use as well, since I will eventually be good enough to take advantage of its capabilities. THe consensus seems to be that woodies are really only for very new players, and are not very good sticks...

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05-08-2010, 11:59 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
Where are sticks costing $250?
Easton S17 grip 289€ = 368$


Welcome to my world... *sigh*

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05-08-2010, 12:14 PM
  #29
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I would say that if a player can afford to purchase high end sticks; despite their skill level; then that is their choice. I am not saying that they will be able to get the most out of the stick or notice the subtle nuances between a stick that costs under $100 versus one that is over a $150. However the mind is a very fragile thing and if something puts you into a more positive mental state (like playing a high end stick) then in some way the player may have a mental edge. The tough part about playing high end sticks is that if they break in a bad spot, it can be very costly if you cannot salvage the shaft or the blade.

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05-08-2010, 05:06 PM
  #30
dabeechman
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Originally Posted by MJAYK View Post
Easton S17 grip 289 = 368$


Welcome to my world... *sigh*
Holy hell! You can get 3 of them over here for that price.

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Old
05-08-2010, 05:19 PM
  #31
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Same in the UK!

It's like 250 for an S17, that's $380. If it weren't for hockey monkeys stupid shipping costs I'd buy a 3 pack in a heartbeat! $100 to ship something that weight 4 lbs is silly

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05-08-2010, 09:59 PM
  #32
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I feel so bad for you guys over there. And I found some new old stock stealth cnt's today for $99!

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05-08-2010, 11:45 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Hrad View Post
If you can't justify spending $200 on a stick, but still want that top of the line stick, then go one of these two routes:

1) Pro Stock - Around $100, always top of the line. You may not know EXACTLY what it is, but if a pro uses it, it's something good.

2) Last year's top of the line, on clearance - A good choice, you can get these for around $100 as well, it doesn't get better than this.
Vapor XXXXs, S17s, etc. for cheap.
Pro stock sticks probably aren't a good option for beginners as most are 100+ flex.

Just get whatever you want folks.

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05-08-2010, 11:49 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
Where are sticks costing $250? I know I've seen sticks for $200. $70 is cheap and you get what you pay for.

Shooting is incredibly complex and takes a great deal of skill and practice. But your average beginner who's 5'9 and 150 pounds will be unable to flex a wood stick cut down to length...guaranteed. Might have an okay slapper but leaving power on the table.

Like I said, it requires a lot of practice and some instruction, so until you're really learning to shoot, the composite has no benefit. Hell, I'd say that over half the guys on my team don't flex their stick and have proper technique and they've been playing for years.
Shooting can be as scientific as you're making it out to be- but it doesn't need to be. Just aim and shoot as hard as you can. I guarantee that's what Ovechking would tell you- minus the aiming part.

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05-09-2010, 12:32 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by ean View Post
Shooting can be as scientific as you're making it out to be- but it doesn't need to be. Just aim and shoot as hard as you can. I guarantee that's what Ovechking would tell you- minus the aiming part.
Hehehe. But like someone else said, avoid beginners should avoid pro stocks, to say the least.

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05-09-2010, 01:06 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
Where are sticks costing $250? I know I've seen sticks for $200. $70 is cheap and you get what you pay for.

Shooting is incredibly complex and takes a great deal of skill and practice. But your average beginner who's 5'9 and 150 pounds will be unable to flex a wood stick cut down to length...guaranteed. Might have an okay slapper but leaving power on the table.

Like I said, it requires a lot of practice and some instruction, so until you're really learning to shoot, the composite has no benefit. Hell, I'd say that over half the guys on my team don't flex their stick and have proper technique and they've been playing for years.
I'm 5'7 180 and I can flex my 19 dollar wooden stick

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Old
05-09-2010, 09:33 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by ipushmycar View Post
I started off with a wood easton. Broke it.

Then a Bentley. Not bad, but was heavy and had no flex.

So I moved up to a Hitman. A good stick for the money, but still too stiff. I got used to the curve, and liked the curve, but wanted more flexed stick.

Then, after getting a job FINALLY after over a year of searching, I rewarded myself with a Warrior Dolomite DD. Not only do I love this stick, the little extra flex is all I needed to finally lift my shots/slap shots.

Now, I impulse bought an INT AK27. I had to cut down all the others 3 inches to fit my height, so i finally picked up this bad boy (on sale, and with a discount) with 70 flex. I have yet to use it, it also has a different curve. I'm thinking this stick will definitely help improve my stick handling/shooting.

Overall, I don't see the point in starting off low. I started out, never skating before, dropping $200 on my X30s. And it was worth it. The way I see it, start off strong. Why spend 50 bucks on a beginner stick, only to want a $100 dollar stick 2 weeks later?

I wish I did more stick research, as I now have 3 sticks with the same curve, and one intermediate with a different curve. In reality, the AK27 is going to be my new main stick. I don't need to cut it- it came perfect length. The flex seems good, but then again I haven't tried it. I may ask for another AK27 with a draper curve for my bday.

But at the end of the day, I love all my sticks. I love collecting them, and I love the Warrior company. I have them laying horizontal on clips on my wall, its a beautiful display. I use all my sticks as well. My bentley I use to toy around with outside, my Hitman I use during freeskate, and my dolomite i use when im on ice shot practicing.
This is exactly what the OP was talking about.

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05-09-2010, 10:13 AM
  #38
greech
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Beginners do not have the strength or mechanics to necessitate a high end composite. The cheapest, wooden stick you can buy is all a new player needs.

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05-09-2010, 10:27 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by ean View Post
Pro stock sticks probably aren't a good option for beginners as most are 100+ flex.
Well if all that you're worried about is flex then pro stocks are fine, just don't buy the ones with over 100 flex lol?

I have 5 pro stocks, Two are 85 Flex, and 3 are 95.

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05-09-2010, 11:06 AM
  #40
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I'm started using my Aluminum Gretzky shaft again! I love that thing Although I'm probably going to pick up an ~$80 Synergy shaft soon since the flex on my Gretzky is a bit much for me now.

For shafts at least, once you get into the ~$70+, they do the job and do it pretty well unless you play non-stop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by greech View Post
Beginners do not have the strength or mechanics to necessitate a high end composite. The cheapest, wooden stick you can buy is all a new player needs.
True, most 'lower' end players don't load the stick before a shot [at least purposely]. But for pickup games, not like it really matters either way. I would rather my blade/stick last a little longer than get a massive flex on a slap shot while shooting around.

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05-09-2010, 11:10 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
Where are sticks costing $250?
Everywhere. I see them all of the time at the LHS around here.

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Old
05-09-2010, 08:11 PM
  #42
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Yeah the trick is to find a quality stick for a good price because you do need a half decent composite stick. The people using a Bauer One55 or other cheap sticks are not getting the true composite experience unfortunately.

I know I own two of them and they feel like junk compared to other things out there. I tried a cheap Easton and a cheap Bauer X20 from two guys at hockey one day and they were awful sticks, no feel at all and felt like a hard plastic instead of a composite. They were heavy and just brutally bad to the point of asking why they even would bother making them.

My two cheap shafts have top end blades in them and that helps but not much. I use those on outdoor ice with the non-hockey unskilled pond hockey shin-whackers.

It is easier to cry over a broken $40 shaft lol.

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05-09-2010, 08:36 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Hockeyfan68 View Post
Yeah the trick is to find a quality stick for a good price because you do need a half decent composite stick. The people using a Bauer One55 or other cheap sticks are not getting the true composite experience unfortunately.

I know I own two of them and they feel like junk compared to other things out there. I tried a cheap Easton and a cheap Bauer X20 from two guys at hockey one day and they were awful sticks, no feel at all and felt like a hard plastic instead of a composite. They were heavy and just brutally bad to the point of asking why they even would bother making them.

My two cheap shafts have top end blades in them and that helps but not much. I use those on outdoor ice with the non-hockey unskilled pond hockey shin-whackers.

It is easier to cry over a broken $40 shaft lol.
The X40 I bought was light and day compared to my One55, too bad the 40 broke but now i will go stick shopping after exams on tuesday

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05-11-2010, 12:38 PM
  #44
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I just bought a 15 dollar wooden stick online. I'm an absolute beginner, and I just bought all the cheapest equipment I could find that would fit. I didn't really see much of a reason to buy an expensive stick at this point. I have the money to do it, but I hate wasting it when I know it's going to cost a lot for ice time.

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05-11-2010, 02:43 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Defgarden View Post
I just bought a 15 dollar wooden stick online. I'm an absolute beginner, and I just bought all the cheapest equipment I could find that would fit. I didn't really see much of a reason to buy an expensive stick at this point. I have the money to do it, but I hate wasting it when I know it's going to cost a lot for ice time.
I don't care what anybody in this thread says about the issue .... beginners have poor shooting machanics and break sticks a lot more easily than someone who has played for years and years.

A couple of things do this .... poor mechanics and being not very knowledgable about flexes of sticks. Too high a flex and ... snap at the bottom near the heel area where the shafts starts out and too low a flex and the shaft snaps.

Using a bad lie as a beginner contributes to this because you constantly hit the toe of the blade on the ice or the heel depending on the lie.

For an example in baseball when you hit the ball at the end of the wood bat the bat breaks and the same happens when you hit it too close to the hands. it either breaks or stings your hands. Catch the sweet spot and the bat does its job.

Sticks are the same way and it does not matter if it is an expensive one, a cheap one or a wood one, they all break with piss poor mechanics, albeit in different fashions. Wood usually it is the blade that breaks and wears out and sometimes the shaft. I've impaled myself more than once on a wooden shaft breaking in the corner digging for a puck, usually the fiberglas laminate on the shaft protected me from any real damage physically. they break on face offs sometimes if you are a strong guy etc.

The point is beginners should go cheap until they learn how to play and use a basic not very deep mid curve to boot to help with backhanders, passing and basic shots.

.... but alas what do I know, I am just giving my opinion from a small handful of decades playing.

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Old
05-11-2010, 03:42 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by macgyverthatshiz View Post
I am not trying to come off like a d-bag, but I was just curious why so many beginner players always want to get $200+ sticks. I am a beginner myself, started out with a $35.00 Easton wood stick, then progressed to a Warrior Bentley composite for $70.00, which I am currently using, seems like a really good stick for the cash. My advice to beginners, buy a cheapo stick to find your shooting style, especially slap shots, as you WILL break sticks learning.
All my sticks retail for between 2 and 3 hundred dollars now. I have to add that it took me a year to find a curve that I liked then I picked up two rebellion black line red (Wayne Primeau) from the leafs equpt. sale back in early Dec. and my curve has changed drastically from malkin bauer One85 to this crazy open heal curve.

I still use the One85 for playing defense since it is such a long stick.

I did not pay even close to retail for any of my sticks. as a mater of fact I have never paid over $100.00 any of my sticks.

My shot has improved and has become more consistent since upgrading to higher end sticks. The weight in your hands makes a big difference if you are playing 2 hours of shinny with one or two guys on the bench.

But I did start with an easton classic $35.00

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Old
05-11-2010, 04:16 PM
  #47
Defgarden
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HF68,

what is a lie? (as it pertains to hockey sticks)

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Old
05-11-2010, 04:47 PM
  #48
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Old
05-11-2010, 04:52 PM
  #49
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It is the angle between the blade and the shaft. The bigger the number, the more upright the shaft.



Both sticks are exactly the same length. The Blue stick with the black blade, the Louisville, is a 5 lie. The Black stick with white blade, the Harrow 300 is a 5.5 lie.

For me, 5.5 is about right. I rub all the tape off the toe of the 5 lie stick when I'm shooting.

Unfortunately different manufacturers (Warrior) measure lie differently, so a 5 lie in one stick brand, may be different than a 5 lie in another stick brand.

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Old
05-11-2010, 06:17 PM
  #50
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I have coached, played, and watched alot of hockey in the 20 years (I'm 29 now) I have been envolved in the sport. My opinion on the matter is buy the best stuff you can with your budget. I don't always mean the latests and greatest but, the best quality equipment. I myself don't buy the stuff with the highest price tag because it has the highest price tag. Reputation, warrantee, performance, and comfort are the biggest components whether I am buying a hockey stick, a new car, or a lap dance from a hot ass stripper. Life is too short, enjoy the finer things in life because you can't take it with ya.

Dropp'in a little wisdom on you young guys.

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