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Old
05-14-2010, 02:06 AM
  #26
RyanBozak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Sharp = Mid to late 1st + good prospect
Versteeg = Late 1st (Pens for instance) or 2nd + good prospect
Buff = 2nd + decent prospect
Absolutely agree with this 100%. I think those are realistic returns for all three.. with Buff possibly higher/lower than what is listed.

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05-14-2010, 02:07 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Sharp = Mid to late 1st + good prospect
Versteeg = Late 1st (Pens for instance) or 2nd + good prospect
Buff = 2nd + decent prospect
Is it fair to assume you'll get a tad bit less than what you're expecting?

I honestly don't see many teams lining up with their 1st rounders, and a good prospect for a 2-year rental in sharp.

Steeg hasn't broken out playing in a system that's suited for a guy of his skills. Potential? Absolutely. But Byfuglien came close to his output, which says a lot about his peformance over the past two seasons. (not to take anything away from dustin, because I'd love to have him here)

Would a guy like Enver Lisin interest you much? Fast, skilled, and talented. RFA who won't see much of a pay increase. Didn't mesh well with our head coach. Or Matt Gilroy? Great skater, but a little raw at this level. 1.7M cap hit, 1 year remaining on his contract. I think both players would perform better in a competent offensive atmosphere. Both are young, and pretty affordable.

40th overall, Gilroy, Locke for Sharp. Or 40th overall, Lisin, Valentenko for Versteeg.

If there weren't much better offers, would you have interest in this?


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05-14-2010, 02:38 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Is it fair to assume you'll get a tad bit less than what you're expecting?

I honestly don't see many teams lining up with their 1st rounders, and a good prospect for a 2-year rental in sharp.

Steeg hasn't broken out playing in a system that's suited for a guy of his skills. Potential? Absolutely. But Byfuglien came close to his output, which says a lot about his peformance over the past two seasons. (not to take anything away from dustin, because I'd love to have him here)

Would a guy like Enver Lisin interest you much? Fast, skilled, and talented. RFA who won't see much of a pay increase. Didn't mesh well with our head coach. Or Matt Gilroy? Great skater, but a little raw at this level. 1.7M cap hit, 1 year remaining on his contract. I think both players would perform better in a competent offensive atmosphere. Both are young, and pretty affordable.

40th overall, Gilroy, Locke for Sharp. Or 40th overall, Lisin, Valentenko for Versteeg.

If there weren't much better offers, would you have interest in this?
Steeger has spent most of his time here in Chicago on our checking line , That is why his production is similar to Buff's.

Both have spent most of time on Checking line RW (Steeger did play a good chunk of year as a C after Bolland went out this year though). Last year for playoffs our 3rd line was Buff-Pahlsson-Versteeg

At times our checking line was Ladd-Steeger-Buff this year when the Hawks had that awful Andrew Ebbett playing 2nd line C

After Ebbett was gone Versteeg played some 2nd line C . After Bolland came back Versteeg has basically been 3rd line RW since then with Buff rotating with Ladd on LW slot and occasionally Steeger moving to C again between them with Madden as our 4th line C

Hawks wont pick up any Russians. We only have 1 left in organization (Makarov) and he wont come over to KHL

Hawks have too much bad history with Russians. Outside of Krivokrasov and Khabibulin it has been bad

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05-14-2010, 05:15 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
2nd+Sauer = Sharp
2nd+4th '11 = Versteeg
2nd = Byfuglien
Chicago would be crazy to make any of these deals. Way too little going to them for what they're giving up.

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05-14-2010, 07:09 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Sharp = Mid to late 1st + good prospect
Versteeg = Late 1st (Pens for instance) or 2nd + good prospect
Buff = 2nd + decent prospect
well god speed then

not a single one of those players would be worth that

at least not for our team at this point

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05-14-2010, 07:17 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post

Steeger has spent most of his time here in Chicago on our checking line , That is why his production is similar to Buff's.

Both have spent most of time on Checking line RW (Steeger did play a good chunk of year as a C after Bolland went out this year though). Last year for playoffs our 3rd line was Buff-Pahlsson-Versteeg

At times our checking line was Ladd-Steeger-Buff this year when the Hawks had that awful Andrew Ebbett playing 2nd line C

.........
this type of thinking is dangerous....

i can't speak for other teams in the NHL, but the rangers are not in the position to take a chance on a player reaching their potential in a different situation

i understand that in this new salary capped NHL you HAVE to roll the dice on gambles like this to be successul, but at the moment the rangers are simplly not in the position to do so

i think they need to take another season to see how their own youth is progressing and then have a better idea of what they need to do

so with that being said, sharp makes the most sense if he comes reasonably cheap...but once you throw a 1st rounder in the equation the deal should be off

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05-14-2010, 08:09 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by theMessiah1194 View Post
Only interested in Buff, not interested in guys who don't hit, plain and simple. This franchise needs to go in a different direction.
That's it, we have Gaborik, and no one to be able to play with and protect him.
Answer? Byfuglien. or Artyukhin for half the price.

It's not what they have done, it's what they could do....

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05-14-2010, 08:13 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
well god speed then

not a single one of those players would be worth that

at least not for our team at this point

Please don't mind the stupid face, I have bad eye sight and don't think I'm seeing clearly...

You did just say that Byfuglien is NOT worth a 2nd round and a prospect????

You have been watching hockey since the Rangers lost haven't you???

I'd give Dubinsky for Byfuglien straight up so we can have some size with skill around here...but the unreliable picks and prospects aren't worth someone that's proving himself over?

Never shoulda gotten rid of Antropov.

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05-14-2010, 08:22 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHGoalie27 View Post

Please don't mind the stupid face, I have bad eye sight and don't think I'm seeing clearly...

You did just say that Byfuglien is NOT worth a 2nd round and a prospect????

You have been watching hockey since the Rangers lost haven't you???

I'd give Dubinsky for Byfuglien straight up so we can have some size with skill around here...but the unreliable picks and prospects aren't worth someone that's proving himself over?

Never shoulda gotten rid of Antropov.
You're definitely not seeing clearly. You accidentally typed that you would trade Dubinsky straight up for Byfulgien. You clearly need to visit an optometrist. Perhaps a cat-scan is in order as well.

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05-14-2010, 09:39 AM
  #35
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Like Sharp... very versitile... showing up in the playoffs...of course hes surrounded by talent. But I would be ok with moving some prospect depth for a guy like this.

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05-14-2010, 09:54 AM
  #36
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I have seen both Dubinsky and Byfuglien play in the playoffs.

My eyesight is fine.

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05-14-2010, 10:10 AM
  #37
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Dubinsky has 12 points in 17 playoff games. Byfuglien has 15 in 27.

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05-14-2010, 10:18 AM
  #38
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What is the obsession with size and grinders in this fan base? All the teams left in the playoffs actually have players with skill and their 3rd/4th line grinders on the 3rd and the 4th lines...

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05-14-2010, 10:49 AM
  #39
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i know the Hawks are going to have to make some deals to free up cap space, but to think that they will just give these guys up for next to nothing is ridiculous.

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05-14-2010, 10:52 AM
  #40
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So is the idea that a cap strapped team is going to have teams lining up to give them a mid-first and a good prospect for Sharp.

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05-14-2010, 11:11 AM
  #41
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Sharp is an appealing player but I fear he may struggle here with a less talented supporting cast...

Byfuglien is a very entertaining player but his cap hit is too high IMHO.... $3 mil for a guy who can't hit the 20G mark is a little bit concerning.... Rangers could definitely use his size, physicality, and net presence though..

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05-14-2010, 11:36 AM
  #42
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Look at the deals made near or during draft day in recent years.

In 2008, Cammalleri was traded for a first round pick, the 17th pick overall. He had one year remaining on his contract, with a #3.4 million cap hit, and was two seasons removed from putting up an 80 point season. Last year, Jay Bouwmeester's negotiating rights were traded for a 3rd and Jordan Leopold.

Sharp, Buff, and Versteeg haven't come close to having an 80 point campaign yet in their career, and their contracts are inflated. A mid-to-late first would be more than enough for Sharp. Byfuglien has yet to score 40 points in a season and has a $3 million cap hit... a 2nd plus a decent prospect is far too much for him. Versteeg for a 2nd and a prospect may be fair based on his potential, but I think his cap hit may affect his trade value.

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05-14-2010, 11:41 AM
  #43
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Do you guys think Byfuglien's current contract value is maxed out for his potential? I mean when it expires he has no business getting any more money than he's already being paid for what he contributes.... You just can't shell out anything more than $3 mil for a player (as the poster above pointed out) doesn't crack the 40 point mark... He can definitely be an important role player on a team but at 25 you have to wonder what his future contracts will look like because I just can't see him getting a raise under any circumstances... Unless he hits UFA and some team is dumb enough to overpay more.

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05-14-2010, 11:43 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Do you guys think Byfuglien's current contract value is maxed out for his potential? I mean when it expires he has no business getting any more money than he's already being paid for what he contributes.... You just can't shell out anything more than $3 mil for a player (as the poster above pointed out) doesn't crack the 40 point mark... He can definitely be an important role player on a team but at 25 you have to wonder what his future contracts will look like because I just can't see him getting a raise under any circumstances... Unless he hits UFA and some team is dumb enough to overpay more.
And some team will. I just pray it isn't us.

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05-14-2010, 12:16 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by CHGoalie27 View Post
I have seen both Dubinsky and Byfuglien play in the playoffs.

My eyesight is fine.
Sounds like you saw Byfulgien in the Vancouver series. Outside of that, he's been pretty average.

Besides, in order to even make the playoffs you need guys who are effective in the regular season. Dubinsky is both. He's a better player and he's cheaper. A straight up trade is ridiculous.

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05-14-2010, 01:03 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by CHGoalie27 View Post
That's it, we have Gaborik, and no one to be able to play with and protect him.
Answer? Byfuglien. or Artyukhin for half the price.

It's not what they have done, it's what they could do....
Artyuks? I'd rather have ****ing brian boyle play with Gaborik instead of this lazy POS. Artyuks is good in NHL-10. He's not good in the real version though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CHGoalie27 View Post

Please don't mind the stupid face, I have bad eye sight and don't think I'm seeing clearly...

You did just say that Byfuglien is NOT worth a 2nd round and a prospect????

You have been watching hockey since the Rangers lost haven't you???

I'd give Dubinsky for Byfuglien straight up so we can have some size with skill around here...but the unreliable picks and prospects aren't worth someone that's proving himself over?

Never shoulda gotten rid of Antropov.
I'm on a Byfuglien bandwagon, but I wouldn't even think about swapping Dubi for him. CH, I don't think you have any idea what you're talking about my friend. Dubi is without a doubt the superior player.

And we never got rid of Antro. He was an UFA. He got rid of himself with the contract he was asking for.

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05-14-2010, 01:19 PM
  #47
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I recently moved to Chicago and catch a lot of Hawks games. They are in a tough cap position, but this team is DEEP. I would expect them to move players for prospects or picks, but given the notariety of their recent sucsess / these players, none of originally proposed deals are even close enough to warrent consideration.

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05-14-2010, 02:07 PM
  #48
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I recently moved to Chicago and catch a lot of Hawks games. They are in a tough cap position, but this team is DEEP. I would expect them to move players for prospects or picks, but given the notariety of their recent sucsess / these players, none of originally proposed deals are even close enough to warrent consideration.
They are up against the cap wall they are in no position to demand top value for these players... It's not even like they have great value contracts either, they don't...

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05-14-2010, 02:16 PM
  #49
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They are up against the cap wall they are in no position to demand top value for these players... It's not even like they have great value contracts either, they don't...
If 5 teams are interested in Sharp, do you really think they're all going to low-ball Chicago and risk losing him to another team? No. They'll try and outbid the other teams involved to acquire him.

Supply and demand.

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05-14-2010, 02:18 PM
  #50
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It depends on how much demand there is for those players. If Chicago has only a few suitors for any of those players, they won't get much in return. If 5 or more teams are in on a player, they'll get a much more reasonable return. Looking at the UFA market, I think there will be a lot of teams looking to acquire players like Sharp and Versteeg.

Chicago is not going to get ripped off, they'll get decent returns.

EDIT: Wow, Trxjw and I are on the same page.

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