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Francis vs Savard

View Poll Results: Make a choice (all-time):
Ronald Michael Francis, Jr. 13 61.90%
Denis Joseph Savard 8 38.10%
Tell me you're joking, its not remotely close 0 0%
Voters: 21. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-04-2010, 10:52 PM
  #1
Ziostilon
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Francis vs Savard

These two hall of famers have gone on to coaching at some capacity. Smart players individually.

Who is the better player?
Ronald Michael Francis, Jr. or Denis Joseph Savard




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05-04-2010, 11:46 PM
  #2
Big Phil
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Hmm, close one there. On one hand you have a flashy player who was a human highlight reel yet was still an elite playmaker and scored a wealth of goals. He was still a good playoff performer and finally got his due in 1993 with Montreal winning a Cup.

Francis on the other hand was a more quiet player who was not as good of a goalscorer but at least as good of a playmaker. He was better defensively and was still good in the playoffs being a great secondary player to Lemieux. Won a couple of Cups and certainly aged better than Savard.

That being said, at their peak as far as an individual player goes, I would still take Savard. He was too explosive of a player to contain and his offense makes up for the fact that Francis was better in his own end and on faceoffs. Savard just created havoc for the other team plain and simple

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05-04-2010, 11:51 PM
  #3
TheDevilMadeMe
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Haha, have you been on the ATD recently?

Anyway, Savard has a pretty clear peak advantage over Francis. He was one of the best players in the world for several years. Has at least one Art Ross without the Gretzky/Lemieux factor.

Francis brings defense, faceoff ability, and intangibles.

Francis probably beats out Savard in career value by a little bit.


Last edited by TheDevilMadeMe: 05-05-2010 at 12:08 AM.
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05-09-2010, 01:22 AM
  #4
Kaner88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Hmm, close one there. On one hand you have a flashy player who was a human highlight reel yet was still an elite playmaker and scored a wealth of goals. He was still a good playoff performer and finally got his due in 1993 with Montreal winning a Cup.

Francis on the other hand was a more quiet player who was not as good of a goalscorer but at least as good of a playmaker. He was better defensively and was still good in the playoffs being a great secondary player to Lemieux. Won a couple of Cups and certainly aged better than Savard.

That being said, at their peak as far as an individual player goes, I would still take Savard. He was too explosive of a player to contain and his offense makes up for the fact that Francis was better in his own end and on faceoffs. Savard just created havoc for the other team plain and simple
I agree, you are comparing two different types of players. Still, when I use to go to The Stadium to see Savard play, it was amazing. To me, he is still the 'best' (not fastest, but best) skater the NHL has ever seen.

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05-09-2010, 01:51 AM
  #5
seventieslord
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It says 5-4 but I see 5-1. I don't know who three of those guys are.

Definitely Ronnie Francis. Savard was a better peak performer, but Francis wins due to defense, faceoffs, consistency, longevity, and contribution to winning.

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05-09-2010, 02:03 AM
  #6
Kaner88
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And, honestly, I liked Francis better with Hartford than Pittsburg.

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05-09-2010, 01:01 PM
  #7
the edler
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denis savard

longevity sucks, it's better to be great and burn out fast and not compile like some dale hunter

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05-09-2010, 06:51 PM
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Kaner88
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While looking up Savard on Youtube, I found this. Thought it was quite funny actually. Need to find a good Gretzky vs. Mats Naslund fight next

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtJXzV4W_lk

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05-09-2010, 06:59 PM
  #9
jkrx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaner88 View Post
While looking up Savard on Youtube, I found this. Thought it was quite funny actually. Need to find a good Gretzky vs. Mats Naslund fight next

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtJXzV4W_lk


this is his best

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Old
05-09-2010, 07:48 PM
  #10
Mike Farkas
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Sorry, normally a lurker here, but I thought I'd try to participate here as these are two players that I know a fair bit about. Trying to mimic HoH's style.

I'm not sure if it's unfair to say that Denis Savard was the original "dangler" (I know Max Bentley and others get brought up in that discussion), but Savard was a very unique player in the history of the game. His peak was high, five top-10 point finishes in a seven year stretch. Always seemed to be a big contributor in the playoffs - including a very nice 1985 campaign where he went ~2 points/gm in 15 games.

Francis' career is hard to look away from though. Interestingly, all of his top-10 point finishes come much later than you would expect (or not, if you consider the Whalers teams that he played on). Three top-5 point finishes in four years from 94-95 to 97-98 (8th in 96-97) and another top-10 finish at the ripe old age of 39!

Similarly, they both didn't post overwhelming goal totals. Francis' assist compilations are pretty fantastic. 12 top-10 in assist finishes, six top-5 in assist finishes, and led the league twice in back to back years (94-95 and 95-96 against Sakic, Lindros, Oates, Jagr, Forsberg, Gretzky, and Forsberg in or around their primes [well, not Gretzky, but his "fading days" still out-produced much of the league].

Because of how quiet of a career he had, you'd never guess that he was second ALL-TIME in assists behind Gretzky.

Selke winner while leading the league in helpers in 94-95 (Byng winner too for what it's worth).

And the major all-time nominations aren't particularly impressive for either as they both played center through the Lemieux/Gretzky era.

Savard:
Hart: 3rd, 5th, t-10th
2nd team all-star, "3rd team all-star"

Francis:
Hart: 6th, 9th, t-10th
Selke: 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th
"3rd team all-star" 3 times

Peak goes to Savard, at his peak he was one of the most dangerous offensive threats in the game. Career goes to Francis for remarkable longevity, remarkable career totals through different eras and being significantly better defensively.

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05-09-2010, 08:04 PM
  #11
TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Farkas View Post

Francis' career is hard to look away from though. Interestingly, all of his top-10 point finishes come much later than you would expect (or not, if you consider the Whalers teams that he played on). Three top-5 point finishes in four years from 94-95 to 97-98 (8th in 96-97) and another top-10 finish at the ripe old age of 39!
I'd say the biggest reason for Francis's late statistical peak was named "Jaromir Jagr."

I do think Francis's 9th place finish at the age of 39 in 2002 (without Jagr) was the most impressive season of his career. It's also the only season he received more than a single for the Hart - finishing 6th.

When I look at Hart voting, I don't pay much attention to when a player only gets a single vote. So to me, the Hart voting is:

Savard: 3rd, 5th
Francis: 6th

For the record, Savard's 3rd place finish was behind Gretzky and the Vezina-winning goalie. His 5th was behind Lemieux, the Vezina winner, Gretzky, and Yzerman's career year.

Francis's 6th place finish was behind Iginla, Naslund, and 3 goalies! (What an awful year for forwards).

Savard definitely has a huge edge in peak.

Francis's longevity was freakish though.


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Old
05-14-2010, 12:26 PM
  #12
unknown33
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Savard's prime and peak advantage surpasses Francis' longevity for me.

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05-14-2010, 12:38 PM
  #13
Hawker14
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Since the question was who was the better player - which I take as who was better in their prime.

Without a doubt for me, it was Denis Savard. He was, simply put, amazing.

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