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Sharp, Versteeg, Byfuglien

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Old
05-14-2010, 02:25 PM
  #51
Panfork
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHGoalie27 View Post
I'd give Dubinsky for Byfuglien straight up so we can have some size with skill around here...but the unreliable picks and prospects aren't worth someone that's proving himself over?
You should really get that drug habit checked out, because your perception is in the gutters.


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Originally Posted by CHGoalie27 View Post
Never shoulda gotten rid of Antropov.
I think he was asking us for a salary that would have ended up with a cap hit of something like $5M. He has awful injury history, and while he brings good size and half-decent talent, he's inconsistent and paying $5M/year over several years is overpayment for a player like Antropov. Sharp puts up similar numbers, has little injury history, and has a cap hit of $3.9M.

The only thing he's pretty consistent in is playing under 65 games a year.

72GP
62GP
57GP
54GP
72GP
81GP
76GP

Just awful injury history. Any player that is actively getting knocked out for 20 games a year is someone I'd like to stay away from, unless it's generational talent. Gaborik has generational talent, and it was foreseen this year that his health had improved, and from the looks of it SO FAR, it has.

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05-14-2010, 02:29 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
It depends on how much demand there is for those players. If Chicago has only a few suitors for any of those players, they won't get much in return. If 5 or more teams are in on a player, they'll get a much more reasonable return. Looking at the UFA market, I think there will be a lot of teams looking to acquire players like Sharp and Versteeg.

Chicago is not going to get ripped off, they'll get decent returns.

EDIT: Wow, Trxjw and I are on the same page.
I'm completely shocked.

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Old
05-14-2010, 02:47 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
this type of thinking is dangerous....

i can't speak for other teams in the NHL, but the rangers are not in the position to take a chance on a player reaching their potential in a different situation

i understand that in this new salary capped NHL you HAVE to roll the dice on gambles like this to be successul, but at the moment the rangers are simplly not in the position to do so

i think they need to take another season to see how their own youth is progressing and then have a better idea of what they need to do

so with that being said, sharp makes the most sense if he comes reasonably cheap...but once you throw a 1st rounder in the equation the deal should be off
Versteeg as a rookie = Calder finalist

It isn't a gamble to think that if Versteeg gets top 6 minutes + more PP time that he will thrive

And in alot of ways Versteeg is similiar to Sharp when Flyers cut him loose. Although Versteeg offensive game is more developed then Sharp's was at the same age

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05-14-2010, 02:51 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
If 5 teams are interested in Sharp, do you really think they're all going to low-ball Chicago and risk losing him to another team? No. They'll try and outbid the other teams involved to acquire him.

Supply and demand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
It depends on how much demand there is for those players. If Chicago has only a few suitors for any of those players, they won't get much in return. If 5 or more teams are in on a player, they'll get a much more reasonable return. Looking at the UFA market, I think there will be a lot of teams looking to acquire players like Sharp and Versteeg.

Chicago is not going to get ripped off, they'll get decent returns.

EDIT: Wow, Trxjw and I are on the same page.


Strange thing to see ,,, Most leaf fans are convinced that Versteeg will be traded for a 3rd rounder as all 29 gm's will conspire against us

Nice to see people that understand reality

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05-14-2010, 02:53 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Versteeg as a rookie = Calder finalist

It isn't a gamble to think that if Versteeg gets top 6 minutes + more PP time that he will thrive

And in alot of ways Versteeg is similiar to Sharp when Flyers cut him loose. Although Versteeg offensive game is more developed then Sharp's was at the same age
Versteeg is a very good player, and I think he is underrated for the reasons yo have been pointing out however, the Rangers system is built with players like him who work hard and can put up a fair amount of points(Callahan, Dubinsky, Weise, Byers, Avery). They wouldnt be able to give up a 1st rounder because they lack any high-end talent in their system, especially on offense.

I could see a team giving up a late first(25-30) or an early 2nd for him but I dont think the Rangers would be able to pay the price. I would love to have him on the Rangers but I dont see it happening.

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05-14-2010, 02:53 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Versteeg as a rookie = Calder finalist

It isn't a gamble to think that if Versteeg gets top 6 minutes + more PP time that he will thrive

And in alot of ways Versteeg is similiar to Sharp when Flyers cut him loose. Although Versteeg offensive game is more developed then Sharp's was at the same age
then i respectfully disagree

players do not come here and improve on their average totals....they stay the course or drop below

and even if there are indications that he'd improve by increased minutes, the rangers can not afford to swing and miss at this point

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05-14-2010, 02:54 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post


Strange thing to see ,,, Most leaf fans are convinced that Versteeg will be traded for a 3rd rounder as all 29 gm's will conspire against us

Nice to see people that understand reality
After hitting us in the face many times(Redden, Drury, Gomez) we have scars to remind us.
:la ugh:

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05-14-2010, 02:59 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Sharp = Mid to late 1st + good prospect
Versteeg = Late 1st (Pens for instance) or 2nd + good prospect
Buff = 2nd + decent prospect
These look pretty accurate. I'd say Sharp's return is a little too much, depending on what you mean by a 'good' prospect. Steeg's return looks accurate. Buff's maybe a little much, but about on the ball.

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05-14-2010, 03:26 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
EDIT: Wow, Trxjw and I are on the same page.
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I'm completely shocked.
You guys are the same person.

We're on to you(s).

Creating numerous user-accounts to back-up your opinions.

I remember doing that in 1996 when I started posting on the bills message board as a 16 year old.

I do agree Chicago gets fair return for their guys. I just don't see teams offering 1st round picks, on top of solid prospects for both Sharp/Steeg. I think a mid-2nd is enough for Byf.

Guess we'll find out in a few weeks.

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05-14-2010, 03:59 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
You guys are the same person.

We're on to you(s).

Creating numerous user-accounts to back-up your opinions.

I remember doing that in 1996 when I started posting on the bills message board as a 16 year old.

I do agree Chicago gets fair return for their guys. I just don't see teams offering 1st round picks, on top of solid prospects for both Sharp/Steeg. I think a mid-2nd is enough for Byf.

Guess we'll find out in a few weeks.
agreed i think 40th overall is enough for byf

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Old
05-14-2010, 07:03 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by theMessiah1194 View Post
Only interested in Buff, not interested in guys who don't hit, plain and simple. This franchise needs to go in a different direction.
In other words, Emile Francis hockey (finesse you to death) and smurf hockey (Herb Brooks style) doesn't win you Cups. I agree.
You need a combination of both. The Anisimov line is a great example. And that's our 4th line.
Get Buff (or Artyukhin) and and put him on the wing opposite of Gaborik. If your team can get the best of all worlds (scoring, checking, fighting. i.e., Lucic, Iginla) I know I don't have to tell any fan that your team hit the jackpot.


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Old
05-14-2010, 07:06 PM
  #62
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god damn erica kane is hot

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Old
05-14-2010, 07:30 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by ecemleafs View Post
god damn erica kane is hot
I feel the same way. I can't contain myself and keep inside. Everyone.... She's one "boo yaa hotty!!!" I'd like to request a poll. Erica, or Elisha?

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Old
05-15-2010, 11:20 PM
  #64
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I would give up Sangs and/or McDonagh if it meant getting Byfulien(sp)

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Old
05-16-2010, 12:01 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by ecemleafs View Post
god damn erica kane is hot
Hahaha! I was just about to ask BHWC what it would take for us to obtain E. Kane in the off-season.

Seriously though, any of those guys would be worth looking in to. However since Chicago is in a situation where they need to move some people I think they could end up in the same boat as D.W. was with Kovalchuk. I don't think they'll get ripped off, but they certainly could end up taking a lesser offer. I guess we'll see.

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05-16-2010, 01:45 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Ailurophile View Post
Hahaha! I was just about to ask BHWC what it would take for us to obtain E. Kane in the off-season.

Seriously though, any of those guys would be worth looking in to. However since Chicago is in a situation where they need to move some people I think they could end up in the same boat as D.W. was with Kovalchuk. I don't think they'll get ripped off, but they certainly could end up taking a lesser offer. I guess we'll see.
I was kinda hoping for a Steve Ruccin type deal where they clearly got him for less than he's worth due to salary cap reasons. Not saying those guys will come as cheap, but teams WILL def try and lowball the Hawks.

I'm not really a fan of full finesse hockey. You need players with skill, but it's really a no-brainer, anytime the Rangers have gone far in the playoffs in the last 30+ years (79, especially 1981, 86, 94 of course, and 97) they had very tough teams with hard hitting back ends. That 1981 team is a perfect example of just beating their way up to the Conference Finals.

A guy like Byfuglien would go a long way here. Sather is concerned with too much finesse. The backend needs some more snarl as well.

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05-16-2010, 09:06 AM
  #67
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Is Sharp a better player then Lombardi?

Sure.

Or at least he scores more goals.

But is he THAT much better to warrant giving up quality assets for?

Is Sharp a 1A center? No.

Is he worth a second round pick? I'm not so sure, looking at who we have drafted in the second round the last couple of years: Stepan and Werek.

The argument could go either way.

He's more cost efficient then Brad Richards for example(although not nearly the caliber player Richards is) or Lecavalier.

Sharp would be a good pick up depending on the price.

If I were to give up Sanguinetti I'd like Skille in return not a 29 year old Sharp.

I wouldn't trade McDonagh for Sharp. McDonagh is going to be a top pairing Dman for someone, be it the Rangers or someone else. I'd rather use that chip on someone better.

Anyway, an offseason consisting of Sharp, Byfuglien, and Hamhuis/Seidenberg would be SWEET.

I would just hope Sather is wise with the asset management.

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05-16-2010, 09:23 AM
  #68
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The sad part is that Sharp would probably cost less than Byfuglien and Versteeg because of age/contract/soon-to-be-UFA status.

I think Girardi plus a pick (3rd round pick in 11 maybe?) plus a decent prospect (Byers/Sangs?) might get it done.

Everyone can rip that trade proposal it's not very good but it's just an example; there is no way I'd give up a 2nd rounder or even the B-level prospects (Kudratek, Horak, Valatenko, etc.) for a guy who could only be around for one season.

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05-16-2010, 10:44 AM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Plains Batman View Post
The sad part is that Sharp would probably cost less than Byfuglien and Versteeg because of age/contract/soon-to-be-UFA status.

I think Girardi plus a pick (3rd round pick in 11 maybe?) plus a decent prospect (Byers/Sangs?) might get it done.

Everyone can rip that trade proposal it's not very good but it's just an example; there is no way I'd give up a 2nd rounder or even the B-level prospects (Kudratek, Horak, Valatenko, etc.) for a guy who could only be around for one season.
you really just contradicted the **** out of yourself

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05-16-2010, 10:54 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by nyr2417 View Post
you really just contradicted the **** out of yourself
How? I don't get it.

Do you think that would be more than enough to get Byfug here?

I don't get this board at all sometimes.

I'm not interested in trading a Werek a Horak or a Grachev to land those guys and a pick in the 40s is much more valuable than a pick in the 60s or 70s.

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05-16-2010, 11:50 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by White Plains Batman View Post
The sad part is that Sharp would probably cost less than Byfuglien and Versteeg because of age/contract/soon-to-be-UFA status.

I think Girardi plus a pick (3rd round pick in 11 maybe?) plus a decent prospect (Byers/Sangs?) might get it done.

Everyone can rip that trade proposal it's not very good but it's just an example; there is no way I'd give up a 2nd rounder or even the B-level prospects (Kudratek, Horak, Valatenko, etc.) for a guy who could only be around for one season.
maybe you just really didnt explain what you meant in this post. you go from talking about how girardi 3rd and sangs gets it done but then you say you wouldnt trade a 2nd and kunratek for him. did you mean that you wouldnt do both trades?

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05-16-2010, 12:15 PM
  #72
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Hmmm..I was just speculating what might get it done (the Girardi package) vs. what I definitely wouldn't be willing to do (2nd rounder and a Hagelin or Werek level prospect for example).

I personally think the Girardi package is a little much, but I don't know, I'm not 100% against moving Girardi if they can get scoring and I'd like to keep Sangs of course, but they need someone to come in on defense and be good at the defensive part of the game.

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Old
05-16-2010, 02:04 PM
  #73
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Sharp 3.9M cap hit.

That's a very friendly cap hit, considering he's a legit top-6, two-way player who's still under 30. He'll cost more than both Byf and Steeg.

Girardi doesn't help the Hawks' cap situation. He's a RFA who's going to be getting a raise.

Picks, and prospects. Or very affordable players who can win a spot on their roster, which we're not giving up.

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05-16-2010, 03:49 PM
  #74
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I would be interested in Sharp. He would be a good fit playing with Gaborik and Dubinsky. Byfuglien is overpaid at 3 million he is not worth it. People are overrating him because he had a great series against the canucks. He plays on a very talented team and he only scored 34 points this year and he sees power play time too. He doesn't solve the rangers needs. They need another guy that can score. If they need to add more size and grit they should give Dale Weise a shot.

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05-16-2010, 03:55 PM
  #75
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I would be interested in Sharp. He would be a good fit playing with Gaborik and Dubinsky. Byfuglien is overpaid at 3 million he is not worth it. People are overrating him because he had a great series against the canucks. He plays on a very talented team and he only scored 34 points this year and he sees power play time too. He doesn't solve the rangers needs. They need another guy that can score. If they need to add more size and grit they should give Dale Weise a shot.
100% agree with that last statement. Weise should be given a very good shot to make the team this upcoming season.

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