Suter is, at least in poiles mind, a "franchise" defenseman.
Koivu is a 2nd line center at best. 20 goal scorer, not 30. nice to have, but by no means a franchise player
I dont think Popile would trade Suter for anything short of a franchise player in return.
67 points last season and 71 this season is a alot better than a second line centre. I thought his stats were in even better before I jsut reviewed them now, your right, Suter is def. worth more than Koivu and a second.
I would not mind seeing Tyler Cuma come over from Minnesota! Another young machine on the blueline.
Suter is a top 10 defenseman. Koivu is a top 50 centerman. Big difference. Considering we build from the goalie out, defenseman are more valuable to us as a team.
Suter is a top 10 defenseman. Koivu is a top 50 centerman. Big difference. Considering we build from the goalie out, defenseman are more valuable to us as a team.
It is a non-starter LL.
Koivu is NOT outside of the top-15 centremen. No way.
Those 11 centres are the only centres that had more points than Mikko Koivu.
Out of the 11, only 8 had more than 80 points.
So you are saying there is only 8 first line centres in the NHL??
I think Mikko would be a #1 centre on at least 85% of NHL teams.
Not quite that few (the last time I counted I found about 13 or 14 or so), but yes, that's the number of legit #1 centers.
That said, not all teams need two legit #1s to succeed; just two top-6 guys can work just fine. (Don't dare try telling that to any of my fellow Jackets fans, though; that's the height of heresy here in Central Ohio. )
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Suter is a top 10 defenseman. Koivu is a top 50 centerman. Big difference. Considering we build from the goalie out, defenseman are more valuable to us as a team.
It is a non-starter LL.
I think you meant to say Koivu is a top 50 forward.
Not quite that few (the last time I counted I found about 13 or 14 or so), but yes, that's the number of legit #1 centers.
That said, not all teams need two legit #1s to succeed; just two top-6 guys can work just fine. (Don't dare try telling that to any of my fellow Jackets fans, though; that's the height of heresy here in Central Ohio. )
Thats pretty low, considering there is 30 teams. I would think all teams would behappy with Mikko Koivu as their #1 centreman. I know we sure would!
When I started looking at centers, depending on what criteria you use for a number 1 center will make the list. If it's just based on points, Koivu is pretty high up there. However, a guy like Mike Richards didn't have the point total that Koivu did but I'd consider him a number 1 center for sure. So until someone defines what is a number 1 center, this discussion is a little moot in the sense that there are no parameters except point totals.
Crosby
Backstrom
Stamkos
Sedin
Marleau
Malkin
Kopitar
Brad Richards
Kesler
Thornton
Staal
Zetterberg
Mike Richards
Carter
Toews
Koivu
Sharp
Lecavalier
Roy
Stastny
Plekanic
Datsyuk
Zajac
Connolly
Laich
Getzlaf
Antropov
Gomez
Fisher
Weiss
Stoll
Jordan Staal
Spezza
So there's a pretty good list of centers. I'm sure there are guys there that are better than Koivu and others that are worse. You all can decide and rate them. Some guys have more points, others less, some bring intangibles. These were the highest rated centers according to yahoo sports and their ranking system. ESPN had pretty much the same rankings. A few guys towards the bottom would be different but the main guys are there. I'm sure we can all nitpick but I think Koivu is in the top 20 centers of this group for sure. Enjoy the dissection.
Thats pretty low, considering there is 30 teams. I would think all teams would behappy with Mikko Koivu as their #1 centreman. I know we sure would!
You're right, it is low. I actually came up with 21 on 15 teams, as listed below. The context was folks claiming that Vermette as a #1 substitute meant that Howson was completely incompetent as a GM since surely there was more than enough legit #1s to go around (ha ha ha ha).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi
Here, here's a list of centers I threw together once when I was bored and anticipating another iteration on this argument. There might be some debate here and there, but I still challenge you to get the #1 centers list to at or above 30 without including players of Vermette's caliber.
#1 centers in the league (per team)
Sedin
Crosby, Malkin
EStaal
Backstrom
Lecavalier, Stamkos
Datsyuk, Zetterberg
Marleau, Thornton
Richards
Getzlaf
Spezza
Savard
Connolly, Roy
Toews
Kopitar
Richards, Carter
Visqi, I think you forgot Stastny. I also think Koivu is every bit as good as Connolly and Roy who you have as number 1's.
I like Savard and think he's a good player but without a finisher, I don't think he's a true number 1. His best years were when he had snipers like Kovalchuk and Kessel with him. He was hurt this year so it's hard to say if it was injuries, the lack of a sniper or both that caused his drop but just something to think about.
Krejci doesn't belong on the list at all, IMO.
Vermette is a number 2.
Briere and Elias are more wingers than centers so they shouldn't be in the equation.
All the other guys you have listed are number 2's IMO as well.
McDonald has no place on this list either. Hasn't been any good since he left Anaheim.
I also think Fisher should be on the list as well as a number 2.
Honestly, if you take Roy and Connolly and drop them to the number 2 list, I think you've pretty much nailed it. I think Stastny belongs on the #1 center list and you could add Sharp to the number 2's as well.
Visqi, I think you forgot Stastny. I also think Koivu is every bit as good as Connolly and Roy who you have as number 1's.
D'oh! I thought I'd managed to find everyone. Yeah, he'd definitely be on the #1 list.
And I had those two as #1s largely based on points-per-game, as I don't see Buffalo frequently enough to have a real evaluation. Like I'd said in the preamble to the list, there's likely some debate here and there, but the important part is that there's less than 30.
(and it's spelled Viqsi, for the record )
Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer
Krejci doesn't belong on the list at all, IMO.
I'd be very shocked if that's a common opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer
Vermette is a number 2.
We put him in the #1 position and he had a career year, as opposed to falling apart like some would. He's not a #1 talent, but he can handle the workload - therefore, he's borderline.
That said, there's enough folks who could (and presently do) do similar that I figured it was just easier to call all top-6 not-necessarily-guaranteed-#1s all in the same category.
Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer
Briere and Elias are more wingers than centers so they shouldn't be in the equation.
Can't speak for Elias, but Briere's played much of his career as a center. And I was trying to head off suggestions of folks who've played at center before but normally play wing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer
McDonald has no place on this list either. Hasn't been any good since he left Anaheim.
He's had a decent season or two - one in particular that got cut short due to injuries was pretty effective. He's definitely top-6 IMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer
I also think Fisher should be on the list as well as a number 2.
*headdesk* See self-deprecating comments re: Stastny above. D'oh.
Well I guess Koivu is just a top 20. I really dont care anyways, its not like we will be acquiring him. Just defending the idea that Suter being dealt for a guy like Koivu with a package would not be out of the question.
Could be any forward, not even necessarily a centreman, but we need someone up front on our top line no doubt! (centre would be nice though).
I doubt there are many preds fans that would be upset seeing Mikko wearing the preds jersey. It would suck to lose Suter though.
But I didnt start this thread, Koivu is not my top guy I want to see here, but again, would not be uspet to see him here.
Maybe toss Minnesota Martin Erat and a first rounder for him.
Really? Spezza has a career average of well over ppg 1.02 compared to Koivu's 0.70 ppg , his totals were down a little this season but he has already had seasons of 92, 90 and 87 points. Koivu's top was this season's 71 points.
Kopitar has had seasons of 34, 32 and 27 goals and finished this season with 10 more points. He's huge 222lbs. No way is Koivu better.
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