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CzechoSlovak league?

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Old
03-20-2010, 04:06 PM
  #1
granko
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CzechoSlovak league?

What are your opinions about this idea?

Czech and Slovak hockey is not in the best condition and future is not very perspective as well. Anyway, there is still a lot of fans of hockey on both sides. I hope everyone would like to see good hockey in our countries, more money in the league, better players etc. We all remember good old times when league(and countries) were not separated. Players like Jagr, Hasek, Palffy, Bondra and many other talents started their careers in former CS league. I know that the quality of this league went down after '89 but it was still on very good level in europe. If we want to see Czech and Slovak hockey getting back where it was, this could be a good step. Lot of hockey fans in our countries are not interested in home leagues because of its lack of quality, bad marketing... But i'm sure many of them would like to have a possibility to see some good competitive games in their towns/cities live and in TV.
...
I know that its not that easy, but this concept has a lot of potential. There would have to be some primal investments (arena development, marketing etc.), but nothing good is for free and the money invested could come back in few years.
I also know that corrupted directories could be a problem, but...
...
Is there a chance to make this real, and is there a potential that CSHL could be the 2th best European hockey league(and the 3th/4th best in the world)?


I'm interested in your opinions and presentive suggestions.

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Old
03-20-2010, 05:22 PM
  #2
slovakiasnextone
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Very short answer: It´s not happening.

The reasons have been mentioned numerous times as this has been discussed in Slovak media:
- the Czechs don´t really want it, especially against are the low Extraliga, top 1.liga teams as they believe it could hurt them
-the Slovak side is way more enthusiastic about this, which is understandable as it is the league with way lesser quality
- point 2 leads us to the conclusion that a) the number of Slovak clubs in the league that the Czechs would accept would be very low, which would not make the Slovak side happy and b) there are like only two teams, who currently could play something better than the Slovak league, Slovan Bratislava and HC Košice and with all respect if they´re gonna play a multinational league they´re very likely going to aim higher than the Czech league, like the KHL or something
- previous attempts in other sports- there used to be a common men´s handball league a few years back, but it was discontinued due to the fact that the Czech teams were superior to the Slovak ones. There still is a common women´s handball league, in which the Slovak teams used to be better, however as they´re having some struggles lately, there have been rumours that some of the Czech (Moravian) teams are wanting to end the common league.
There are some serious negotiations going on between CMFS, SFZ and UEFA regarding a future common football league, so mayne we should wait and see how that pans out. But from my impression the football leagues are closer to each other in level, both are some pretty bad football.

And it would not even be the 2nd best in Europe anyway, it does not have the financial resources even if you put the two countries together to hold it´s best players and /or pay quality foreigners and additionally neither country has quality youngsters either. It would not be beating SEL and might be around the level of NLA.

Besides the listed reasons, I´m also saying NO because of other things as well. As you say the hockey in neither country is in good condition, but this problem definitely does not start in senior hockey and such a drastical change in that area could do more hurt than help. The place we need to start to work is the youth. Maybe you believe that the common league, which would be so good according to you, would make the players stay home rather than leave early, however I see to buts there: 1. it´s not just about the level of hockey and very often more about the conditions in the clubs for young players, which in many cases aren´t anywhere near as good as in a Canadian junior team, which is pretty pathetic btw and 2. young players have huge trouble getting ice-time in the two leagues as it is and with higher level of play it would get even worse.

I just really don´t think this is the way to go. Also I believe that you´re looking at it way too much from a Slovak fan perspective and not getting the Czehc one at all:
Quote:
ot of hockey fans in our countries are not interested in home leagues because of its lack of quality, bad marketing... But i'm sure many of them would like to have a possibility to see some good competitive games in their towns/cities live and in TV.
This is completely Slovakia. Czech league attendances aren´t any worse than the rest of the European leagues are. Do you know how many people went to see the Czech 1.liga play-offs in 2008/2009 in Brno?

This concept does no havy any potential at all as it has been denied by the Czech side every single time it had been brought up. And if they would be going to cooperate with other leaues nearby, it would in the current situation make way more sense for them to look into the Switzerland, Germany direction.

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03-21-2010, 08:59 AM
  #3
granko
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ok, so...

I agree that Czech ELH is better than Slovak league, but there are some teams that would be at most only average also in slovak extraliga(4-5). Some games in czech league are not very interesting for fans, because there is big difference in quality, budget of teams, arena capacity and population of cities in which they play.
Of course there would be only few teams from Slovakia, lets say 4 or 5, but it doesn't mean that this would be something disappointing for Slovak side, I think the opposite.
Four teams from SVK could compete in CSHL, and they would be much more interesting for sponsors playing the better league. From the business/management side, markets of Czech republic and Slovakia are very connected. For example O2 or T-Mobile(and many others) could be general sponsor in common league as they operate considerably in both countries. My point is importance of making the league profitable for advertisement, less (but bigger) sponsors with more space for presentation. No ugly ice tagged with million ads, better conditions for TV broadcasters => more people watching hockey in TV + using this space for commercials => more benefits for sponsors.
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This is why NHL(NBA, NFL etc.) is best world league, and why KHL has no chance in competing in long run(US market & better management).
Of course CzechoSlovak market is small, but its still better than Czech and Slovak separated and the potential is just not used. This is also problem in other sports and in other post-communist countries.. we just don't know how to sell it. Then people are rather watching better foreign sport leagues than home/local.
Beating SEL, NLA or SM liiga is then possible. ELH is not so far from them even nowadays.
..
If we want to develop youngsters better, we need more money in hockey and more attention in media. This just can't happen without big first steps, the common league could be one of them.
Then Czechs could start own U20 team in 1. league, and Slovak would continue with more fair competition in 1. league in SK.
..
If we (CZ&SK) don't want to stagnate (which is very likely to happen), we need some reform and changes in system that is not very effective and wake up from golden era of more and more hard-breathing Czechoslovak hockey history.
..
I live in Brno now, so i know that situation here is very specific. It's big city (in CZ circumstances) that didn't have ELH hockey for a long time, people are just hungry, and that's great.
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About the Swiss, German direction, I don't think so. Reasons? Totally separated business markets, no common hockey history etc.
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Games of Slovan-Sparta, Jihlava-Kosice, Pardubice-Trencin... were very interesting for people with a lot of rivalry. I don't know why they shouldn't be now.
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I don't think it's not possible(maybe not now), and both sides would benefit from this. It could be an upgrade of Czech ELH with more competition and better management.
..
It's mainly about business and willingness.

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Old
03-21-2010, 10:26 AM
  #4
slovakiasnextone
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Please name me those 4-5 Slovak teams tat would be able to compete in such a league in order to make it gainful for the Czech side as well? Which three Slovak teams besides Slovan and Košice are any better than the bottom Czech league team? The answer is easy none, they´r roughly around the same level as the worst Czech teams or even worse.

Who would play there? Dukla Trencin who will be happy if they field a team competitive enough in the Slovak league alone? Or Skalica, who are absolutely done as Palffy is leaving after this season?

You have to stop dreaming. The old Czecho-Slovak league was a very long time ago, almost 20 years is a freaking long time in hockey and under utterly different conditions.

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03-21-2010, 11:07 AM
  #5
granko
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Let me put it this way - Four teams from Slovakia would be able to make conditions to be competetive in common league. When you take Slovan, Kosice and best players from 10 other teams in lets say Banska Bystrica and Trencin(or Poprad, Nitra, whatever..), then you have 4. I know it sounds silly and it wouldn't be easy to make it happen. But what about Hradec Kralove in 1. Czech league considering to participate in KHL? I know its a joke now, that team has a EUR ~1m budget and they would need at least 20mill. in KHL, but if they can get sponsors, it is possible.
..

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Old
03-22-2010, 02:19 PM
  #6
jakzed
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Though unlikely to ever happen, I don't think it's a bad idea to pool resources. Though I wonder how long it would take for one of the two to start complaining to underdevelopment because of dedicated resources to the other.

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Old
03-24-2010, 11:03 AM
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zorz
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No, this is bad idea. It would lower the quality of czech Extraligue, which is already low enough

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Old
03-24-2010, 05:52 PM
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Seems like a great idea, doubt it will happen though. 15 million people market >>>> 10 million and 5 million markets. I wanna see classic derby like Sparta Prague vs Slovan Bratislava.

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03-24-2010, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zorz View Post
No, this is bad idea. It would lower the quality of czech Extraligue, which is already low enough
You're wrong. Quality of Czech - Slovakian league would obviously be better than current Czech's league.

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04-26-2010, 04:31 AM
  #10
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I think it's a great idea. To pool the resources and talent. Make it western and eastern conference like in the NHL, 8-10 teams each, four divisions to cut down on the travel. And I cannot care less about some 1.Liga teams interests, I want to save Czech (and Slovak) hockey, let those sub-par teams create a local version of AHL.

Alas, it would just be too great for the boneheads on both sides of the border to allow it. I hope somebody starts to take measures before we compete in B group WC against Netherlands or Great Britain, because that's where we're heading.

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04-26-2010, 05:16 AM
  #11
slovakiasnextone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreakyEuro View Post
I think it's a great idea. To pool the resources and talent. Make it western and eastern conference like in the NHL, 8-10 teams each, four divisions to cut down on the travel. And I cannot care less about some 1.Liga teams interests, I want to save Czech (and Slovak) hockey, let those sub-par teams create a local version of AHL.

Alas, it would just be too great for the boneheads on both sides of the border to allow it. I hope somebody starts to take measures before we compete in B group WC against Netherlands or Great Britain, because that's where we're heading.
Lol, not caring about anything else than the top teams is not in the interest of Slovak/Czech hockey. Why should they bother doing anything when they´ll see that they have no chance of making it to the top league? It is very very important to cae about all the teams, because these "subpar teams" as you called it very often ae much much better wok with young playes than some teams that would definitely play the CZE-SVK league. You can´t apply the North Ameican NHL-AHL scheme to Europe just like that when the system of gowing players is completely diffeent.

IMO a common league is in the interest of hockey fans, so they have bette hockey to watch, but it will not save Slovak and even less Czech hockey. It is necessary to start working better, harder and moe effectively at much lower ranks to save Slovak and Czech hockey.

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05-05-2010, 03:51 PM
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jakzed
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Lots of interesting thoughts on this issue. Here is an interesting bit of info I ran accross from football and the potential of a CZ-SVK common league:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/socce...13384328_x.htm

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Old
05-06-2010, 04:17 AM
  #13
slovakiasnextone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jakzed View Post
Lots of interesting thoughts on this issue. Here is an interesting bit of info I ran accross from football and the potential of a CZ-SVK common league:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/socce...13384328_x.htm
In Slovak
http://www.profutbal.sk/ligy/svk1/cl...nej_sutaze.htm
http://www.profutbal.sk/clanok92157.htm


In Czech
http://fotbal.idnes.cz/spolecna-liga..._fot_reprez_ot
http://fotbal.idnes.cz/cesko-slovens..._fot_reprez_mn

However the difference is that the level of the football leagues is closer, both suck a lot. Compared to that the Czech hockey league is an elite league.

Still even in football I am sceptical about the performance of Slovak teams in the future common league. Yes, Žilina can play up with the top Czech teams and even beat them and Slovan could possibly match them too, but the others are just very bad. Also, Žilina is the only one that has a nice stadium, the others have some plans, but those will be reality in 2020 at best, not in 2012.

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05-08-2010, 06:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by granko View Post
This is why NHL(NBA, NFL etc.) is best world league, and why KHL has no chance in competing in long run(US market & better management).
I disagree. KHL market is approximately similar than US. Management of KHL is getting better and better every year

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Old
05-09-2010, 05:41 PM
  #15
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Czecho-Slovak Hockey League - my amateur proposal:

- the League model made according to a conference model in the NHL:
- Three divisions: 15 teams
1st - Czech division: 5 teams
2nd - Moravian division: 5 teams
3rd - Slovak division: 5 teams
- play-off would make only 3 teams from the first places of divisions plus other 5 teams would make play-off according to sum table of whole league - such as the Conference in NHL - for Slovakia it means: at least one team would always be in the play-off.
- the same system for juniors
- the remaining Czech and Slovak leagues as usual

Slovak division:
- certainly Slovan Bratislava and HC Košice + 3 teams from possible choices - e.g. Dukla Trencin, MHC Martin, HK ŠKP Poprad, HK Nitra, HK 36 Skalica, HC 05 Banska Bystrica, HKM Zvolen etc. - unfortunately more teams from the SK would not have the necessary quality )

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Old
05-15-2010, 08:23 PM
  #16
yunost
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slovakiaforever View Post
Please name me those 4-5 Slovak teams tat would be able to compete in such a league in order to make it gainful for the Czech side as well? Which three Slovak teams besides Slovan and Košice are any better than the bottom Czech league team? The answer is easy none, they´r roughly around the same level as the worst Czech teams or even worse.

Who would play there? Dukla Trencin who will be happy if they field a team competitive enough in the Slovak league alone? Or Skalica, who are absolutely done as Palffy is leaving after this season?

You have to stop dreaming. The old Czecho-Slovak league was a very long time ago, almost 20 years is a freaking long time in hockey and under utterly different conditions.
I think you're too quick to judge. Its called patience and a common league that will regulate these things. I dont know much about Czech or Slovak hockey, but I know that last years HC MVD of the KHL did not make the playoffs, and this year was in the gagarin cup final. That could be a Slovak team that you are talking about now. Again, I'm not sure about the interacts of your hockey, but im sure that if implemented, there would be an improved council and management that could implement some sort of minimum salary cap.

Maybe the 'lesser' Slovak clubs could be like this years KHL Avtomobilist Ekaterinburg. It was its first year in khl after not even winning RUS-2 league, and projected to be last... It ended up in the playoffs.

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Old
05-15-2010, 08:48 PM
  #17
Harv
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Would CZ players not wanting to play on SK teams and SK players not wanting to play on CZ teams be an issue?

I guess it's all part of the job but maybe some players would not like the idea?

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