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Old
05-15-2010, 10:57 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Slapshot_11 View Post
He's saying its laughable because that is a huge overpayment for Suter. There is no way Gillis trades Kesler, Hodgson and a 1st for Suter
Then why are people sayin how Weber is worth like a superstar forward and a solid prospect and at least two first round picks?? Then alot of you guys say Suter is equal in talent to Weber, why would Suter not fetch that if Weber can? It's obviously overpayment, but Weber/Suter are young franchise defensemen. Kesler is not, Hodgson still hasnt made the NHL, and toss in a first. Weber would easily get that in a return.

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05-16-2010, 01:14 AM
  #27
triggrman
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Suter is probably better in talent but Weber is bigger, and big defensemen that can actually play are much tougher to find and will always get more attention.

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05-16-2010, 09:57 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
Suter is probably better in talent but Weber is bigger, and big defensemen that can actually play are much tougher to find and will always get more attention.
This is true and a huge part of why Weber would probably cost more than Suter. If we're speaking strictly of defensive play and positioning Suter is better. Suter is a better skater and does a better job taking away lanes. Weber, on the other hand, is the all around defenseman, and he does it well. He is big, he is mean, and when he gets full wood on a puck it's dangerous to be anywhere in the area. I've seen the guy cause goalies to duck out of reaction. We all saw him shoot so hard the puck literally teleported through the net. As someone said a while ago, Weber has all of the intangibles that make GMs, coaches, players, and fans drool.

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05-16-2010, 10:43 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
This is true and a huge part of why Weber would probably cost more than Suter. If we're speaking strictly of defensive play and positioning Suter is better. Suter is a better skater and does a better job taking away lanes. Weber, on the other hand, is the all around defenseman, and he does it well. He is big, he is mean, and when he gets full wood on a puck it's dangerous to be anywhere in the area. I've seen the guy cause goalies to duck out of reaction. We all saw him shoot so hard the puck literally teleported through the net. As someone said a while ago, Weber has all of the intangibles that make GMs, coaches, players, and fans drool.
I got ya abit better now. So I am just asking out of curiosity now. If Weber could fetch Kesler, Hodgson and a 1st round pick, what would Suter fetch from the Canucks? Is it more valuable to us to trade Weber rather than Suter if it ever came down to choosing one of them?

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05-16-2010, 11:11 AM
  #30
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It's kind of boring how this thread has become the discussion of Weber/Suter. I'd wanna know something about the other players in Nashville and some insight on how they would fit the Canucks, and what kind of a return Nashville would want for said players. We ain't trading Kesler or Hodgson. You ain't trading Suter or Weber, let's be reality, not NHL10. So Scratch them off the lists, and reboot the convo!

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05-16-2010, 01:05 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by taipale View Post
It's kind of boring how this thread has become the discussion of Weber/Suter. I'd wanna know something about the other players in Nashville and some insight on how they would fit the Canucks, and what kind of a return Nashville would want for said players. We ain't trading Kesler or Hodgson. You ain't trading Suter or Weber, let's be reality, not NHL10. So Scratch them off the lists, and reboot the convo!
Very well put. I agree with you 100%.

Hows this offer,

To Nashville,
Alex Burrows, Jordan Shroeder, 5th round pick in 2010 draft.

To Canucks,
Steve Sullivan/Jason Arnott/Dumont, Francis Bouillon, 18th overall pick in 2010 draft.


Preds get mid aged Burrows as a top 6 forward, plus a fellow young american solid prospect in Shroeder to play with Colin Wilson.


Canucks get a playoff veteran in either Sully or Arnott or Dumont, plus another playoff experienced top 4/5 defenseman in Bouillon, and a nice solid draft pick to replace Shroeder.

Any thoughts??? Does it work well capwise??

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05-16-2010, 01:30 PM
  #32
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Boullion is a UFA.

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05-16-2010, 02:14 PM
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Interesting proposal, my concern is the cap hit of Dumont and the size of Boullion (though he doesn't play small from what I've seen/heard of him), plus he's UFA, so I'm not sure how much we'd value his rights. That said, I like Dumont's size and team/community oriented attitude, exactly what Gillis tries to find in players. His inconsistent work ethich (from what I've read) worries me, especially at the price of Burrows given that Burrows gives everything and then some every second on the ice.

Arnott I think is out of the question, we've heard of his lack of heart up here, and Sullivan I love but the Canucks need to get bigger and Sullivan is a little too "experienced", aka old. One thing about Gillis' philosophy is that he likes to bring in experienced players, but preferably not over-the-hill types on the verge of retirement, but rather guys that have enough time left to grow with the team, even if this means looking for reclamation projects of guys who are underappreciated on their current teams.

I think the root issue though is that what the Canucks need is defense, and a trade like this would eat up the cap space needed to pick up some defensive depth.

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05-16-2010, 02:29 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by lightning_legwand View Post
Very well put. I agree with you 100%.

Hows this offer,

To Nashville,
Alex Burrows, Jordan Shroeder, 5th round pick in 2010 draft.

To Canucks,
Steve Sullivan/Jason Arnott/Dumont, Francis Bouillon, 18th overall pick in 2010 draft.
From a Canucks' POV, I'd rather have Burrows than Sullivan/Arnott/Dumont, Bouillon is an UFA and I'd rather have Schroeder and 5th round pick than Nashville's first. Great deal for the Preds, brutal for the Canucks.

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05-16-2010, 06:02 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Peter Griffin View Post
From a Canucks' POV, I'd rather have Burrows than Sullivan/Arnott/Dumont, Bouillon is an UFA and I'd rather have Schroeder and 5th round pick than Nashville's first. Great deal for the Preds, brutal for the Canucks.
How about instead of Bouillon, throw in Hamhuis rights?? and Kevin Klein??

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05-16-2010, 07:13 PM
  #36
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I just don't see Nashville and Vancouver making good trading partners.

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05-16-2010, 09:24 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lightning_legwand View Post
Very well put. I agree with you 100%.

Hows this offer,

To Nashville,
Alex Burrows, Jordan Shroeder, 5th round pick in 2010 draft.

To Canucks,
Steve Sullivan/Jason Arnott/Dumont, Francis Bouillon, 18th overall pick in 2010 draft.


Preds get mid aged Burrows as a top 6 forward, plus a fellow young american solid prospect in Shroeder to play with Colin Wilson.


Canucks get a playoff veteran in either Sully or Arnott or Dumont, plus another playoff experienced top 4/5 defenseman in Bouillon, and a nice solid draft pick to replace Shroeder.

Any thoughts??? Does it work well capwise??
LOL no thanks, Canucks aren't trading a 35 goal scorer+Great Prospect+5 th for that package, anyway why would it take to get Joel Ward?

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05-16-2010, 09:48 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by King Canuck View Post
LOL no thanks, Canucks aren't trading a 35 goal scorer+Great Prospect+5 th for that package, anyway why would it take to get Joel Ward?
Not sure what it would take to get Ward but he is one of those guys that isn't a great talent but a heart and soul guy. We don't have a lot of guys with his size so it's hard to quantify what he's worth. He's a good penalty killer, good along the boards, will go to the net, put up around 40 points, isn't overly physical but is strong when he does. Honestly, of the guys you've got under contract, Burrows is the only one that would interest me but I don't think you guys would trade Burrows for Ward so it would have to be some sort of package and honestly, salaries really become the big issue in any sort of trade.

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05-17-2010, 11:27 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by King Canuck View Post
LOL no thanks, Canucks aren't trading a 35 goal scorer+Great Prospect+5 th for that package, anyway why would it take to get Joel Ward?
if poile could get a guy his size who plays the boards and has a smudge of offensive talent for a million or under, I would think a 4th or 5th would have him.

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05-17-2010, 08:43 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by King Canuck View Post
LOL no thanks, Canucks aren't trading a 35 goal scorer+Great Prospect+5 th for that package, anyway why would it take to get Joel Ward?
Well a canucks fan said to change up the boring Weber, Suter, Kesler, Sedin thing! Took a stab at it.
How about,

Sullivan and our 18th overall pick straight up for Burrows??

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05-18-2010, 01:52 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by lightning_legwand View Post
Well a canucks fan said to change up the boring Weber, Suter, Kesler, Sedin thing! Took a stab at it.
How about,Sullivan and our 18th overall pick straight up for Burrows??
Aint happening. Sullivan has minimal value and Canucks don't need some 18th pick that has a 30% chance of becoming as good as Alex Burrows in 5 years.

Not to mention Borrows probably has the best financial terms in the league, which is worth a ton.


Last edited by dulzhok: 05-18-2010 at 02:41 AM.
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05-19-2010, 11:11 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by lightning_legwand View Post
Weber/Suter are young franchise defensemen. Kesler is not
Canucks fans here. I think a lot of people don't understand how good Kesler actually is at this point. He's 25 years old and coming off a 75 point season. He was the 10th highest scoring centre in the entire NHL playing on the second line in Vancouver with Mason Raymond and Samuelsson or Burrows for the majority of the season. He's been nominated for the Selke twice. He's a very fast skater, has a high compete level, and is an annoying jerk to play against.

I think because he came into the league so young and took a slow road, people don't understand how far he's come -- or how young he still is. The salary range for centres that outscored him last year is in the neighbourhood of 6.5-8.7 million per season and Kesler is locked in at 5 million per season for six years.

All that said, there's no point in a swap built around Kesler + for Weber. It creates a huge hole in the Canucks line-up in order to fill another one.

What I'm curious about is what the Predators might expect in return for Jon Blum. The Preds are stacked with D prospects but seem like they might need some talented depth at forward.

I think there are other moves out there the Canucks can make to short up their top six on defense, but they need a young player with top-pairing potential to round things out.

What are your (and other Predators fans') thoughts on what a deal for Blum would look like?

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05-19-2010, 01:12 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Proto View Post
Canucks fans here. I think a lot of people don't understand how good Kesler actually is at this point. He's 25 years old and coming off a 75 point season. He was the 10th highest scoring centre in the entire NHL playing on the second line in Vancouver with Mason Raymond and Samuelsson or Burrows for the majority of the season. He's been nominated for the Selke twice. He's a very fast skater, has a high compete level, and is an annoying jerk to play against.

I think because he came into the league so young and took a slow road, people don't understand how far he's come -- or how young he still is. The salary range for centres that outscored him last year is in the neighbourhood of 6.5-8.7 million per season and Kesler is locked in at 5 million per season for six years.

All that said, there's no point in a swap built around Kesler + for Weber. It creates a huge hole in the Canucks line-up in order to fill another one.

What I'm curious about is what the Predators might expect in return for Jon Blum. The Preds are stacked with D prospects but seem like they might need some talented depth at forward.

I think there are other moves out there the Canucks can make to short up their top six on defense, but they need a young player with top-pairing potential to round things out.

What are your (and other Predators fans') thoughts on what a deal for Blum would look like?
Too hard to answer at this point because we may need him on the blue line next season. If Hamhuis, Bouillon and Grebeshkov are not re-signed, we have Weber, Suter, Klein and Sulzer already signed to contracts and have Franson as a RFA. I imagine we re-sign Franson which still leaves one hole open. It's either filled by Blum or a cheap veteran free agent with Blum being the first injury call up. Honestly, it's tenuous at best to know how Blum will do at this level but after watching him at camp the last few years, I think he sticks here and can become a very effective number 3 for us with a low salary to start, which is what we need.

Personally, I like Raymond's game of your younger forwards. He's got speed and even showed some grit in the playoffs. Not sure a Blum for Raymond trade makes sense for us at this point and not even sure it does for you. The other possibilities are guys like Hogdson and Schroeder but not sure you guys would part with them for Blum.

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05-19-2010, 01:19 PM
  #44
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[QUOTE=glenngineer;25903700]Too hard to answer at this point because we may need him on the blue line next season. If Hamhuis, Bouillon and Grebeshkov are not re-signed, we have Weber, Suter, Klein and Sulzer already signed to contracts and have Franson as a RFA. I imagine we re-sign Franson which still leaves one hole open. It's either filled by Blum or a cheap veteran free agent with Blum being the first injury call up. Honestly, it's tenuous at best to know how Blum will do at this level but after watching him at camp the last few years, I think he sticks here and can become a very effective number 3 for us with a low salary to start, which is what we need.

Personally, I like Raymond's game of your younger forwards. He's got speed and even showed some grit in the playoffs. Not sure a Blum for Raymond trade makes sense for us at this point and not even sure it does for you. The other possibilities are guys like Hogdson and Schroeder but not sure you guys would part with them for Blum.[/QUOTE]


Do you think Blum is worth Hodgson straight up??
Blum is a top notch defenseman prospect, as Hodgson is as well, pretty even I think, but doubt that trade would ever happen.

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05-19-2010, 03:33 PM
  #45
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Do you think Blum is worth Hodgson straight up??
Blum is a top notch defenseman prospect, as Hodgson is as well, pretty even I think, but doubt that trade would ever happen.
I don't think there's much chance of that happening. Some sort of deal involving Raymond for Blum is far more likely, I would think.

Glenngineer, that's interesting. I wouldn't have expected them to be relying on two rookies next season, but given the number of reputable defense prospects in the Nashville system (at least four), I guess it makes sense. If that's the case, perhaps the deal is less likely.

Personally, from a Canucks standpoint, trading Raymond for a player like Blum doesn't seem far-fetched. The Canucks will hopefully sign at least one higher end free agent defensemen (hopefully Martin and/or Seidenberg) as well as a more affordable one -- maybe even Boullion.

But I think a general weakness in the Canucks system is the lack of a young defensemen to step in next season and possibly step into a top-pairing role in the next 2-3 seasons. The Canucks have a couple of "maybe" prospects on the back end, but they're all at least one year -- and more likely two years -- from being on the opening day roster. A guy like Blum would allow the Canucks to load up some cap space on a top defender such as Paul Martin and maintain some cap flexibility.

Similarly, as good as Raymond is (I think he's a 30-35 goal scorer sometime in the next few seasons), Michael Grabner might be able to do close to the same thing next season for less money. The Canucks need to be smart about allocating cap space, since they'll be at the ceiling every season for the conceivable future.

I guess we'll see what happens

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05-20-2010, 12:58 AM
  #46
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Proto, the problem with a Blum for Raymond trade is the same reason you like Grabner, he's a cheaper alternative. We are probably losing Hamhuis and Grebeshkov because of finances so trading Blum to add Raymond weakens the blue line talent wise and financially for us. I would love to add Raymond and put him out there with guys like Erat and Legwand. Their speed combination would frighten the heck out of a lot of teams. If Nashville were to trade Blum it would have to be for someone on an entry level contract as opposed to someone like Raymond who is going to get a nice pay increase as a RFA. We are going to have to pay Hornqvist some nice money to keep him as a RFA as well so I'd hate to have to worry about re-signing both Hornqvist and Raymond unless we already had a deal in place with Raymond before a trade was made.

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05-21-2010, 04:06 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lightning_legwand View Post
Well a canucks fan said to change up the boring Weber, Suter, Kesler, Sedin thing! Took a stab at it.
How about,

Sullivan and our 18th overall pick straight up for Burrows??
Again No thanks, Canucks aren't trading Burrows to the Preds unless he's in a package for Weber or Suter.

What about

To

Van 1 st 2010
Steve Bernier
Van 3 rd 2011

To
NSH 1 st
Joel Ward

?

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05-21-2010, 09:43 PM
  #48
Bad Karma
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Originally Posted by King Canuck View Post
Again No thanks, Canucks aren't trading Burrows to the Preds unless he's in a package for Weber or Suter.

What about

To

Van 1 st 2010
Steve Bernier
Van 3 rd 2011

To
NSH 1 st
Joel Ward

?
Pass on that, Bernier isn't worth anyone's time, SJ didn't want him, Buffalo didn't want to keep him either. Not surprised VAN would want to get rid of him either. That trade doesn't really help NSH out at all.

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05-21-2010, 10:33 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Bad Karma View Post
Pass on that, Bernier isn't worth anyone's time, SJ didn't want him, Buffalo didn't want to keep him either. Not surprised VAN would want to get rid of him either. That trade doesn't really help NSH out at all.
Yeah, it's the $ issue that would sink this before it hit the water, IMO. If Nashville may be losing Hamhuis over $500k-$1M because of an internal budget, adding Bernier's $2M to not add much doesn't really help out too much. If he was a bona fide scorer, perhaps, but he's really a solid two-way player with good size that he sometimes uses. You can find that around the league for less money and no assets.

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05-21-2010, 10:55 PM
  #50
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Yeah, it's the $ issue that would sink this before it hit the water, IMO. If Nashville may be losing Hamhuis over $500k-$1M because of an internal budget, adding Bernier's $2M to not add much doesn't really help out too much. If he was a bona fide scorer, perhaps, but he's really a solid two-way player with good size that he sometimes uses. You can find that around the league for less money and no assets.
Joel Ward who we already have.

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