HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Nashville Predators
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

A Trade With Minny (Weber)

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-15-2010, 04:43 PM
  #26
lightning_legwand*
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Ontario, CANADA
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,202
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Midnight Oil View Post
GOD no.
You guys think Suter is worth alot more than Koivu??

lightning_legwand* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2010, 06:47 PM
  #27
Que Sera Sera
Registered User
 
Que Sera Sera's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,404
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Que Sera Sera
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightning_legwand View Post
You guys think Suter is worth alot more than Koivu??
Yes.

Que Sera Sera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2010, 07:21 PM
  #28
lightning_legwand*
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Ontario, CANADA
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,202
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Midnight Oil View Post
Yes.
Yeah? Like how much more?

Suter for Koivu and a second round pick?

lightning_legwand* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-16-2010, 12:44 AM
  #29
PredsV82
Puckaroni and cheese
 
PredsV82's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Outside
Country: Scotland
Posts: 14,324
vCash: 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightning_legwand View Post
Yeah? Like how much more?

Suter for Koivu and a second round pick?

Suter is, at least in poiles mind, a "franchise" defenseman.

Koivu is a 2nd line center at best. 20 goal scorer, not 30. nice to have, but by no means a franchise player

I dont think Popile would trade Suter for anything short of a franchise player in return.

PredsV82 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-16-2010, 12:57 AM
  #30
lightning_legwand*
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Ontario, CANADA
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,202
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
Suter is, at least in poiles mind, a "franchise" defenseman.

Koivu is a 2nd line center at best. 20 goal scorer, not 30. nice to have, but by no means a franchise player

I dont think Popile would trade Suter for anything short of a franchise player in return.

67 points last season and 71 this season is a alot better than a second line centre. I thought his stats were in even better before I jsut reviewed them now, your right, Suter is def. worth more than Koivu and a second.
I would not mind seeing Tyler Cuma come over from Minnesota! Another young machine on the blueline.

lightning_legwand* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-16-2010, 02:06 AM
  #31
triggrman
HFBoards Sponsor
 
triggrman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Murfreesboro, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 17,936
vCash: 500
71 points is what a 2nd line center should get.

triggrman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-16-2010, 08:25 AM
  #32
Enoch
This is my boomstick
 
Enoch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Cookeville TN
Country: United States
Posts: 12,571
vCash: 500
Suter is a top 10 defenseman. Koivu is a top 50 centerman. Big difference. Considering we build from the goalie out, defenseman are more valuable to us as a team.

It is a non-starter LL.

__________________
- Enoch -
Enoch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-16-2010, 11:47 AM
  #33
lightning_legwand*
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Ontario, CANADA
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,202
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
71 points is what a 2nd line center should get.
71 points is a first line centre.

Remember salary cap my friend, how can you afford a 71 point guy on the second line??

Also,

H.Sedin
Crosby
Backstrom
Stamkos
B.Richards
Thornton
Marleau
Kopitar
Stastny
Malkin
Kesler


Those 11 centres are the only centres that had more points than Mikko Koivu.
Out of the 11, only 8 had more than 80 points.

So you are saying there is only 8 first line centres in the NHL??

I think Mikko would be a #1 centre on at least 85% of NHL teams.


Last edited by lightning_legwand*: 05-16-2010 at 12:07 PM.
lightning_legwand* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-16-2010, 12:02 PM
  #34
Que Sera Sera
Registered User
 
Que Sera Sera's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,404
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Que Sera Sera
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch View Post
Suter is a top 10 defenseman. Koivu is a top 50 centerman. Big difference. Considering we build from the goalie out, defenseman are more valuable to us as a team.

It is a non-starter LL.
Koivu is NOT outside of the top-15 centremen. No way.

Que Sera Sera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-16-2010, 12:42 PM
  #35
Viqsi
carrying the flag
 
Viqsi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: The Scary Internet
Country: United States
Posts: 21,117
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Viqsi
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightning_legwand View Post
71 points is a first line centre.

Remember salary cap my friend, how can you afford a 71 point guy on the second line??

Also,

H.Sedin
Crosby
Backstrom
Stamkos
B.Richards
Thornton
Marleau
Kopitar
Stastny
Malkin
Kesler


Those 11 centres are the only centres that had more points than Mikko Koivu.
Out of the 11, only 8 had more than 80 points.

So you are saying there is only 8 first line centres in the NHL??

I think Mikko would be a #1 centre on at least 85% of NHL teams.
Not quite that few (the last time I counted I found about 13 or 14 or so), but yes, that's the number of legit #1 centers.

That said, not all teams need two legit #1s to succeed; just two top-6 guys can work just fine. (Don't dare try telling that to any of my fellow Jackets fans, though; that's the height of heresy here in Central Ohio. )

__________________
Remember - when you're a hockey fan, it's not "reckless driving", it's "good forechecking".
"Viqsi, you are our sweet humanist..." --mt-svk on the CBJ boards

Thanks, Howson, for cleaning up MacLean's toxic waste. Welcome, Kekalainen; let's get good things built!
Viqsi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-16-2010, 12:53 PM
  #36
glenngineer
Registered User
 
glenngineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Spring Hill, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 4,172
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch View Post
Suter is a top 10 defenseman. Koivu is a top 50 centerman. Big difference. Considering we build from the goalie out, defenseman are more valuable to us as a team.

It is a non-starter LL.
I think you meant to say Koivu is a top 50 forward.

glenngineer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-16-2010, 01:55 PM
  #37
lightning_legwand*
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Ontario, CANADA
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,202
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Not quite that few (the last time I counted I found about 13 or 14 or so), but yes, that's the number of legit #1 centers.

That said, not all teams need two legit #1s to succeed; just two top-6 guys can work just fine. (Don't dare try telling that to any of my fellow Jackets fans, though; that's the height of heresy here in Central Ohio. )

Thats pretty low, considering there is 30 teams. I would think all teams would behappy with Mikko Koivu as their #1 centreman. I know we sure would!

lightning_legwand* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-16-2010, 03:18 PM
  #38
glenngineer
Registered User
 
glenngineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Spring Hill, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 4,172
vCash: 500
When I started looking at centers, depending on what criteria you use for a number 1 center will make the list. If it's just based on points, Koivu is pretty high up there. However, a guy like Mike Richards didn't have the point total that Koivu did but I'd consider him a number 1 center for sure. So until someone defines what is a number 1 center, this discussion is a little moot in the sense that there are no parameters except point totals.

glenngineer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-16-2010, 03:20 PM
  #39
Predsrule
Registered User
 
Predsrule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,656
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Midnight Oil View Post
Koivu is NOT outside of the top-15 centremen. No way.
yes he is..

Predsrule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-16-2010, 07:00 PM
  #40
lightning_legwand*
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Ontario, CANADA
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,202
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Predsrule View Post
yes he is..
Name 15 centremen you would rather have

lightning_legwand* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-16-2010, 09:55 PM
  #41
glenngineer
Registered User
 
glenngineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Spring Hill, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 4,172
vCash: 500
Top centers in the league IMO:

Crosby
Backstrom
Stamkos
Sedin
Marleau
Malkin
Kopitar
Brad Richards
Kesler
Thornton
Staal
Zetterberg
Mike Richards
Carter
Toews
Koivu
Sharp
Lecavalier
Roy
Stastny
Plekanic
Datsyuk
Zajac
Connolly
Laich
Getzlaf
Antropov
Gomez
Fisher
Weiss
Stoll
Jordan Staal
Spezza


So there's a pretty good list of centers. I'm sure there are guys there that are better than Koivu and others that are worse. You all can decide and rate them. Some guys have more points, others less, some bring intangibles. These were the highest rated centers according to yahoo sports and their ranking system. ESPN had pretty much the same rankings. A few guys towards the bottom would be different but the main guys are there. I'm sure we can all nitpick but I think Koivu is in the top 20 centers of this group for sure. Enjoy the dissection.

glenngineer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-16-2010, 11:53 PM
  #42
Viqsi
carrying the flag
 
Viqsi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: The Scary Internet
Country: United States
Posts: 21,117
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Viqsi
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightning_legwand View Post
Thats pretty low, considering there is 30 teams. I would think all teams would behappy with Mikko Koivu as their #1 centreman. I know we sure would!
You're right, it is low. I actually came up with 21 on 15 teams, as listed below. The context was folks claiming that Vermette as a #1 substitute meant that Howson was completely incompetent as a GM since surely there was more than enough legit #1s to go around (ha ha ha ha).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Here, here's a list of centers I threw together once when I was bored and anticipating another iteration on this argument. There might be some debate here and there, but I still challenge you to get the #1 centers list to at or above 30 without including players of Vermette's caliber.

#1 centers in the league (per team)
Sedin
Crosby, Malkin
EStaal
Backstrom
Lecavalier, Stamkos
Datsyuk, Zetterberg
Marleau, Thornton
Richards
Getzlaf
Spezza
Savard
Connolly, Roy
Toews
Kopitar
Richards, Carter

Borderline #1s/#2s:
Arnott
Kesler (he may move up, tho)
MKoivu (ditto)
Plekanec, Gomez
Vermette
Briere
Pavelski
Bergeron, Krejci
Antropov
Ribeiro
Weiss
Elias, Zajac
McDonald
JStaal (maybe)

#1 Prospects Playing Now:
Brassard
Duchene
Wilson
Dubinsky
Tavares
Berglund

None Of The Above:
Jokinen
Drury

Viqsi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-17-2010, 12:12 AM
  #43
glenngineer
Registered User
 
glenngineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Spring Hill, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 4,172
vCash: 500
Visqi, I think you forgot Stastny. I also think Koivu is every bit as good as Connolly and Roy who you have as number 1's.

I like Savard and think he's a good player but without a finisher, I don't think he's a true number 1. His best years were when he had snipers like Kovalchuk and Kessel with him. He was hurt this year so it's hard to say if it was injuries, the lack of a sniper or both that caused his drop but just something to think about.

Krejci doesn't belong on the list at all, IMO.

Vermette is a number 2.

Briere and Elias are more wingers than centers so they shouldn't be in the equation.

All the other guys you have listed are number 2's IMO as well.

McDonald has no place on this list either. Hasn't been any good since he left Anaheim.

I also think Fisher should be on the list as well as a number 2.

Honestly, if you take Roy and Connolly and drop them to the number 2 list, I think you've pretty much nailed it. I think Stastny belongs on the #1 center list and you could add Sharp to the number 2's as well.

glenngineer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-17-2010, 02:24 AM
  #44
triggrman
HFBoards Sponsor
 
triggrman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Murfreesboro, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 17,936
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightning_legwand View Post
Name 15 centremen you would rather have
Crosby
Backstrom
Stamkos
Sedin
Malkin
Eric Staal
Marleau
Thornton
Zetterberg
Lecavalier
Datsyuk
Getzlaf
Toews
Spezza
Kopitar
Brad Richards

Here's 16

Now, which 2 would you replace with Koivu?

triggrman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-17-2010, 05:42 AM
  #45
MD
#woofwoof
 
MD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: NC
Country: United States
Posts: 1,644
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightning_legwand View Post
71 points is a first line centre.

Remember salary cap my friend, how can you afford a 71 point guy on the second line??

Also,

H.Sedin
Crosby
Backstrom
Stamkos
B.Richards
Thornton
Marleau
Kopitar
Stastny
Malkin
Kesler


Those 11 centres are the only centres that had more points than Mikko Koivu.
Out of the 11, only 8 had more than 80 points.

So you are saying there is only 8 first line centres in the NHL??

I think Mikko would be a #1 centre on at least 85% of NHL teams.
nope

MD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-17-2010, 09:02 AM
  #46
Viqsi
carrying the flag
 
Viqsi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: The Scary Internet
Country: United States
Posts: 21,117
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Viqsi
Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Visqi, I think you forgot Stastny. I also think Koivu is every bit as good as Connolly and Roy who you have as number 1's.
D'oh! I thought I'd managed to find everyone. Yeah, he'd definitely be on the #1 list.

And I had those two as #1s largely based on points-per-game, as I don't see Buffalo frequently enough to have a real evaluation. Like I'd said in the preamble to the list, there's likely some debate here and there, but the important part is that there's less than 30.

(and it's spelled Viqsi, for the record )

Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Krejci doesn't belong on the list at all, IMO.
I'd be very shocked if that's a common opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Vermette is a number 2.
We put him in the #1 position and he had a career year, as opposed to falling apart like some would. He's not a #1 talent, but he can handle the workload - therefore, he's borderline.

That said, there's enough folks who could (and presently do) do similar that I figured it was just easier to call all top-6 not-necessarily-guaranteed-#1s all in the same category.

Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Briere and Elias are more wingers than centers so they shouldn't be in the equation.
Can't speak for Elias, but Briere's played much of his career as a center. And I was trying to head off suggestions of folks who've played at center before but normally play wing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
McDonald has no place on this list either. Hasn't been any good since he left Anaheim.
He's had a decent season or two - one in particular that got cut short due to injuries was pretty effective. He's definitely top-6 IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
I also think Fisher should be on the list as well as a number 2.
*headdesk* See self-deprecating comments re: Stastny above. D'oh.

Viqsi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-17-2010, 12:24 PM
  #47
token grinder
formerly sirryan189
 
token grinder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Franklin
Country: United States
Posts: 4,191
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
Crosby
Backstrom
Stamkos
Sedin
Malkin
Eric Staal
Marleau
Thornton
Zetterberg
Lecavalier
Datsyuk
Getzlaf
Toews
Spezza
Kopitar
Brad Richards

Here's 16

Now, which 2 would you replace with Koivu?
kopitar and spezza.
but you omitted mike richards

token grinder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-17-2010, 02:55 PM
  #48
Joe T Choker
Roll Wide Roll
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Melrose
Country: Italy
Posts: 23,896
vCash: 500
Richy Rich would be the only one I would omit ... but yeah, I'd put Mike Richards back on the list before Koivu

Joe T Choker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-17-2010, 10:27 PM
  #49
lightning_legwand*
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Ontario, CANADA
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,202
vCash: 500
Well I guess Koivu is just a top 20. I really dont care anyways, its not like we will be acquiring him. Just defending the idea that Suter being dealt for a guy like Koivu with a package would not be out of the question.

Could be any forward, not even necessarily a centreman, but we need someone up front on our top line no doubt! (centre would be nice though).

I doubt there are many preds fans that would be upset seeing Mikko wearing the preds jersey. It would suck to lose Suter though.

But I didnt start this thread, Koivu is not my top guy I want to see here, but again, would not be uspet to see him here.

Maybe toss Minnesota Martin Erat and a first rounder for him.

lightning_legwand* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-18-2010, 03:39 AM
  #50
triggrman
HFBoards Sponsor
 
triggrman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Murfreesboro, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 17,936
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
kopitar and spezza.
but you omitted mike richards
Really? Spezza has a career average of well over ppg 1.02 compared to Koivu's 0.70 ppg , his totals were down a little this season but he has already had seasons of 92, 90 and 87 points. Koivu's top was this season's 71 points.

Kopitar has had seasons of 34, 32 and 27 goals and finished this season with 10 more points. He's huge 222lbs. No way is Koivu better.

triggrman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:53 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.