This is....you can't be feared in the crease anymore. That's not wher Pronger can be feared 'cause you can't be touched over there. You might be feared along the boards or in the corner, but no more Sherwood in the back of the neck.
Having said, you watch the UFA acquisitions for the past 10 years, watch the draft picks after the "Beef from the West" era and you know that getting those sandpaper guys, either up front or in the back end is just not what this organization is all about....unfortunately.
Well if its not the crease its in front of the crease--as in, if you try to get near the goalie, a guy like Pronger will make you pay every time. This gets in the opposition's head, to the point where they stop driving the net, or rarely. We need a punishing d-man, pure and simple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by felixd
Oh I agree with you wholeheartedly and if you look at the "adding toughness in the summer thread" I even mentioned adding Andy Sutton. I think Sutton would fit perfectly in our system, good shot blocker and to your point above would clear the crease and bring some nastiness.
I still think that if Markov is out we are going to need some help on the PP and some help with the breakout. We can't solely rely on Markov for the first pass or breakout. He needs help and Subban is a great step in that direction, but if Markov is out till end November, do you really want to hand the keys over to a 21 year old? I'd rather give Subban a little support and bring in a Corvo/Seidenberg for example to help with the offense breakout and the PP. Problem is we don't nearly have enough cap room to do that, so it's not very realistic. Wouldn't mind starting the year with something like this:
Markov - Subban
Sutton - Corvo/Seidenberg(I think Seidenberg is the better player overall but shoots left...we have enough left shots on D)
Gill-Gorges
x. OB
Maybe the pairings aren't quite right, but I think that's a nice mix of offense, talent, defense and toughness. Like I said not very realistic but hey.
Corvo is almost as bad MAB on defence, so no thanks. I like Seidenberg though. Still, there's slim to no chance that we unload Spacek or Hammer in the offseason, so we'll probably have to wait until 2011 to re-make the D properly.
In 2011 we'll have 3 cheapies (O'byrne, Gorges and Subban) Spacek in his last year (but with a tradeable contract) and maybe Markov. That will be the year where we'll have enough dough to get a good fit or 2 on D.
What Gauthier will do this summer... I mean Markov looks more and more like DiPietro, he's more injured than healthy, everytime we badly need him, he's injured, i know it's not his fault, but it means that at least until December we won't play with our best d-man. So what can we do? Search for a top 4 d-man to fill in the spot left by Markov? Is Subban ready to takes his spot? Should we sign a juicy big contrat to Markov or let him go?
Corvo is almost as bad MAB on defence, so no thanks. I like Seidenberg though. Still, there's slim to no chance that we unload Spacek or Hammer in the offseason, so we'll probably have to wait until 2011 to re-make the D properly.
In 2011 we'll have 3 cheapies (O'byrne, Gorges and Subban) Spacek in his last year (but with a tradeable contract) and maybe Markov. That will be the year where we'll have enough dough to get a good fit or 2 on D.
You're right on the first point, Corvo is pretty bad defensively, I would prefer Seidenberg as well, but he shoots left. We've seen what happens this year with Spacek when we play a dman on his wrong side too much so I'd like to avoid that again.
Either way, I think you're right, 2011 is the summer we'll be able to remake our defense. Right now there is too much money(almost 9 million) tied up into two defenceman(Hamrlik/Spacek) who are getting up there in age and they're not bad, Hamrlik in particular looked great in the first half of the year, but it looks like he's just out of gas now. I think that money can be better spent on the D core. Let's hope we get a nice surprise from one of Carle/Weber next year.
What Gauthier will do this summer... I mean Markov looks more and more like DiPietro, he's more injured than healthy, everytime we badly need him, he's injured, i know it's not his fault, but it means that at least until December we won't play with our best d-man. So what can we do? Search for a top 4 d-man to fill in the spot left by Markov? Is Subban ready to takes his spot? Should we sign a juicy big contrat to Markov or let him go?
Corvo is almost as bad MAB on defence, so no thanks. I like Seidenberg though. Still, there's slim to no chance that we unload Spacek or Hammer in the offseason, so we'll probably have to wait until 2011 to re-make the D properly.
In 2011 we'll have 3 cheapies (O'byrne, Gorges and Subban) Spacek in his last year (but with a tradeable contract) and maybe Markov. That will be the year where we'll have enough dough to get a good fit or 2 on D.
I'm sure we can move Spacek or Hamrlik in the off season...worst case we may have to add a draft pick or do a buyout. Before doing that we have to be sure that we are in a better position. With Markov possibly missing 2 months, we need veterans in place so as to not fall behind in the standings and have to battle all year just for the playoffs. I wouldn't mind a Schubert type as UFA at a reasonable price as #7(around 1 mil), he can also play the "energy player" role so he is versatile.
What Gauthier will do this summer... I mean Markov looks more and more like DiPietro, he's more injured than healthy, everytime we badly need him, he's injured, i know it's not his fault, but it means that at least until December we won't play with our best d-man. So what can we do? Search for a top 4 d-man to fill in the spot left by Markov? Is Subban ready to takes his spot? Should we sign a juicy big contrat to Markov or let him go?
Markov isn't just a "top 4 d-man" he is a #1, something we don't have to replace him and which would cost a fortune to sign. Much easier to negotiate an extension this summer when his value is lower. The worst thing the Habs can do is throw subban to the wolves like they did with Price 2 years ago...insulate your young players and let them earn their "promotions" instead of rushing them.
Subban could need 2-3-4 years before he is ready to be #1, that should coincide with Markov no longer being a #1 and past his prime.
He played 78 games last year and 82 the year before, and 77 the game before that and...
Well, he's been quite durable, the problem is with the timing of his injuries. In other words, bad luck.
And a skate slicing a tendon... I mean... You can't include that in any considerations of him being injury prone.
What has it been really ? An injury against the leafs and another one against the penguins. That's two big injuries, but can you say two injuries make a player injury prone ?
I just think this is massive overreaction at this point in time.
Markov is awesome, but the injuries do seem to be mounting. I'm not saying I would pull the trigger, but I would entertain the possibility of trading him just to see what the offers would be like.
Markov is awesome, but the injuries do seem to be mounting. I'm not saying I would pull the trigger, but I would entertain the possibility of trading him just to see what the offers would be like.
Unless Nashville suddenly wants to trade Weber for him or Buffalo Myers or Chicago Keith, or Los Angeles Doughty...we can only make our situation worse. Often times the best trades are the ones you DON'T make.
Last edited by Monctonscout: 05-20-2010 at 09:52 AM.
Yeah there's no point in trading him unless we get someone comparable if not better like a Keith/Doughty etc and that's not happening. He is the key to our powerplay and breakout.
lol at people thinking we'll get a good return for a Markov that will be on his contract year coming off a serious injury. I really can't understand the rationale of trading away someone who's been statistically our MVP for the past few seasons at his prime let alone at his lowest value. We've been lacking impact players for years and Markov (top 5 in D point production for 3 straight seasons) is the only one we've had since pre-lockout Theodore (Hart+Vezina). Yeah he's injured, no one said it's career threatening and he's only 31. We FINALLY have two very good puck movers in our lineup for the foreseeable future...why mess with that?
People also are also too ignorant and stupid to realise how important Markov is for our Powerplay...
I'm going to add that Markov wasn't himself this season. He is a better player than that. And hopefully he doesn't miss the beginning of next season so he can remind all of you how good he really is.
I don't think it really matters when he comes back now, what's the point in the Canadiens getting Markov back as quickly as possible if it means it might hurt his chances at a full recovery?
I say, if doctors feel its best for him to stay out until december, then he should
I don't really understand all the talks about trading Markov all of a sudden. Anybody can be traded for the right price sure, but you'll have to have some mighty fine return to consider this (and that means more than picks and prospects), because this team has always been Markov dependent. This shouldn't be, in an ideal world, as it just speaks volume about our lack of depth at the D position, but still, Markov right now is still invaluable to us.
People don't realize what a change it will make next year to have 2 good/great puck movers on the blue line instead of just one, possibly spread out over 2 pairings. World of difference and I can't wait to see the result of that on our 5-on-5 play.
Corvo is almost as bad MAB on defence, so no thanks. I like Seidenberg though. Still, there's slim to no chance that we unload Spacek or Hammer in the offseason, so we'll probably have to wait until 2011 to re-make the D properly.
In 2011 we'll have 3 cheapies (O'byrne, Gorges and Subban) Spacek in his last year (but with a tradeable contract) and maybe Markov. That will be the year where we'll have enough dough to get a good fit or 2 on D.
Corvo is really not that bad defensively. He was one of the best defensemen in the Caps series IMO.
The problem is he apparently has zero interest in playing for a Canadian team. Wasn't a fan of the spotlight in Ottawa (which is where he played some of his worst hockey...no small coincidence I'm sure).
I think everyone is agree to say that most of all we need a Markov healthy.
The question though is will he ever come back to his true form, he needs to stay healthy long enough for his grove to get back. Luck or no luck it hasnt been the same Markov for a while. Thats not to say it wont happen but.....
