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Dale Tallon new Florida Panthers GM

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Old
05-18-2010, 06:33 AM
  #26
southerncross116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Wow completely forgot about Samsonov (Not hard since he wasn't noticeable on ice)

Are you thinking of Robert Lang? He plays for Coyotes now or Jason Williams (Last I saw he was benched by Wings)

Vrbata deal was horrendous as well. Inconsistant young forward with talent for a 4th line C (Adams)



, I should have reread what I wrote

No - I'd forgotten about Lang (although he certainly fits) -and was meaning LaPointe ...

Sure Jason Williams was one...

add in both the Adamses and now I can't remember the face off specialist they had a couple of years ago -who was an ok offensive player when he was young - but by the time the Hawks got him he was basically face-off and get off the ice -- Yanick Perrault I think ... and of course Zyuzin ... (but had to take him to get rid of Aucoin, right?)


And who was responsible for Pavel Vorobiev (I think was the guy's name)... ?

And of course he had a lot of luck too - ending up getting Handzus for something like the best 8 games of his career which he hoped to cash in on (and did with LA) ... and, then wasn't there a guy they bought out too?

What I remember though was coming out of the lock out and loading up on sort of like trap guys and a goalie when everyone else went for offense. I guess though if the team didn't blow so badly then they wouldn't have gotten Toews or Kane ... it is really a lot of ground though...

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05-18-2010, 10:07 AM
  #27
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Bought out Curtis Brown.

Liked Versteeg and brought him in when he was considered a AHL talent with only remote NHL upside. Sharp was a 4th line winger in Philly.

I like Tallon and what he did for our club. The reason we brought in mediocre talents like Williams, Samsonov, and Vrbata is because those players were an improvement to our team.

He took a team with Bell - Arnason - Calder as its top line and turned it into what we have today. Our teams record also improved every year under him. That should count for something.

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05-18-2010, 10:34 AM
  #28
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I am also very happy for Dale Tallon

he deserves another shot at improving a hockey club. As an outsider that doesn't know most of the intracasies of which you are mentioning I can only say that it appeared to me that Dale fell on the sword in the end, took responsibility for missing the deadline, and then signed those young guys to some pretty expensive contracts.

Shouldn't there have been a whole lot of other mgmt folks more directly responsible for that error? Bowman? My thinking is that there is a board somewhere in each organization that says we must do this at this time. If not Outlook, maybe a secretary with a Daytimer?

Best of luck in the conference finals and hopefully in your quest for the cup!

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05-18-2010, 11:04 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southerncross116 View Post
No - I'd forgotten about Lang (although he certainly fits) -and was meaning LaPointe ...

Sure Jason Williams was one...

add in both the Adamses and now I can't remember the face off specialist they had a couple of years ago -who was an ok offensive player when he was young - but by the time the Hawks got him he was basically face-off and get off the ice -- Yanick Perrault I think ... and of course Zyuzin ... (but had to take him to get rid of Aucoin, right?)


And who was responsible for Pavel Vorobiev (I think was the guy's name)... ?

And of course he had a lot of luck too - ending up getting Handzus for something like the best 8 games of his career which he hoped to cash in on (and did with LA) ... and, then wasn't there a guy they bought out too?

What I remember though was coming out of the lock out and loading up on sort of like trap guys and a goalie when everyone else went for offense. I guess though if the team didn't blow so badly then they wouldn't have gotten Toews or Kane ... it is really a lot of ground though...
I think Unibrow was a Smith pick. I remember he had such a great start too. Not Retro Von Arx like, but still. Yakubov was another one. I'm not 100%, it might have been Pulford who drafted them, but Smith did like his Russians.

Cullimore was too slow for the post-lockout NHL, but I actually liked the Aucoin signing in theory (at the time I mean). The D was terrible and there was a big leadership void on that team.

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05-18-2010, 11:55 AM
  #30
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Aucoin on paper was a great signing. Our defense was abysmal, and we had absolutely no leadership. He was just laughably horrible here. Maybe it was a situation where he's a solid #4 guy that just can't hack it playing #1 minutes. Whatever the case, him and Cullisuck were the two worst defenseman we've seen play heavy minutes since Deron Quint.

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05-18-2010, 02:38 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helicon1 View Post
I think Unibrow was a Smith pick. I remember he had such a great start too. Not Retro Von Arx like, but still. Yakubov was another one. I'm not 100%, it might have been Pulford who drafted them, but Smith did like his Russians.

Cullimore was too slow for the post-lockout NHL, but I actually liked the Aucoin signing in theory (at the time I mean). The D was terrible and there was a big leadership void on that team.
Vorobiev showed flashes of being the player we wanted but his D needed lots of work. Instead of Yawney playing the kid (Our team was horrible anyway) he constantly benched or scratched him. He should have been learnign from experience on ice not sitting in press box.

Hawks gave up on Vorobiev too soon

Yakubov on other hand is right up there with Ty Jones as far as terrible picks by Hawks,,,,,, God what a POS

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05-18-2010, 02:46 PM
  #32
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Vorobiev would have made it as Vrbata type player. Guy had some skill and was badly misused by Yawney.

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05-19-2010, 12:24 AM
  #33
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Tallon will do good things in Flordia.

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05-19-2010, 12:36 AM
  #34
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He can start by trading for Huet.

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05-19-2010, 03:49 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Tallon is a average GM


Sharp- Tallon
Versteeg - Tallon
Ladd - Tallon (Trading Smith's player in Ruutu)
Toews - Tallon (Easy pick)
Kane - Tallon (Easy pick)
Hossa - Bowman's (We know it was the Bowman's behind this not Dale)
Madden - Who know's ,,, When did Dale lose the power struggle and how much imput did he have in our recent FA's?
Kopecky - Bowman's
Eager - Tallon
Fraser - Pulford
Byfuglien - Smith pick
Burish - Smith pick
Bolland - Pulford pick
Brouwer - Pulford pick
Bickell - Pulford pick
Dowell - Pulford pick
Seabrook - Smith pick
Keith - Smith pick
Campbell - Tallon
Hammer - Tallon pick
Hendry - Tallon FA
Sopel - Tallon FA
Boynton - Bowman trade
Huet - Tallon
Niemi - Tallon

And for all the praise of his drafting only Niklas Hjalmarsson is an NHL regular outside of Toews and Kane from his drafts. His 1st 3 drafts are full of alot of fail!

Dale's a good guy and I am sure he will do better in his 2nd try as GM. But he is overated by people for the Hawks success.

The Hawks success is because of the death of Dollar Bill + 3 contribution of 3 GM's

What would Hawks look like if Seabrook and Keith were not picked by Smith?
What would Hawks look like if Brouwer and Bolland were not picked by Pulford?

There ,,, Those are my thoughts!!

Good luck Dale ,,, I am not about to rehash longstanding debate over Tallon during the Hawks playoff run!

He is gone ,,, Some supported that (Me for instance) and others didn't.
You should footnote the Ruutu pick as Tallon takes some credit for scouting him. If you recall when Ruutu was picked Tallon was a big supporter of that selection.

To be fair, you should also put in the parenthetical next to Sharp how big of a steal that trade was.

Kane/Toews were solid picks...to describe them as easy is too simplistic wouldn't you say? Ask Was or Bos how they passed on Toews; or how about STL who allegedly made a big trade offer to Tallon for Kane but he passed on it.

Also, some of your Pulford picks are...emeritus selections, as he was the name on the GM door only, while Tallon and the scouting dept. worked the draft, specifically, some of those 2004 picks.

Bolland, Barker, Brouwer, Dowell could easily be called Tallon picks.

Even the Zhamnov deal which netted Fraser (among others) was done during the so-called Pulford "mentoring" of Tallon while he was Assistant GM.

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Old
05-19-2010, 04:57 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ered7 View Post
Ask Was or Bos how they passed on Toews
.
???? Am I miss something?
STL #1
PIT #2
Hawks #3 --> Toews

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05-19-2010, 05:06 AM
  #37
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Point of order ... Pulford never "mentored" anyone - he was in charge no matter what the title.

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05-19-2010, 01:56 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ered7 View Post
You should footnote the Ruutu pick as Tallon takes some credit for scouting him. If you recall when Ruutu was picked Tallon was a big supporter of that selection.

To be fair, you should also put in the parenthetical next to Sharp how big of a steal that trade was.

Kane/Toews were solid picks...to describe them as easy is too simplistic wouldn't you say? Ask Was or Bos how they passed on Toews; or how about STL who allegedly made a big trade offer to Tallon for Kane but he passed on it.

Also, some of your Pulford picks are...emeritus selections, as he was the name on the GM door only, while Tallon and the scouting dept. worked the draft, specifically, some of those 2004 picks.

Bolland, Barker, Brouwer, Dowell could easily be called Tallon picks.

Even the Zhamnov deal which netted Fraser (among others) was done during the so-called Pulford "mentoring" of Tallon while he was Assistant GM.
, Those were Puflord picks no matter what you want to believe

Order of things (Since Star Wars played a role in major Hawks GDT earlier in year)

Dollar Bill =

Pulford =

Tallon =

Everyone know's who had the real power

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05-19-2010, 04:48 PM
  #39
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I know Pully and old man Wirtz get a lot of flack for counting pennies, but most of that goes back to the 80s & 90s. By 2003, I seriously question how well Pulford was up-to-date on the upcoming prospects.

In Nov. 2003, they cleaned house of a lot of Mike Smith's crew, so perhaps Smith's guys should get more credit for that '03 draft. I even remember the press release touting Tallon's work on the scouting end prior to him being named Assistant GM on that same Nov. day.

"Dale has had experience in the scouting end of the business and he has done a very good job," said General Manager Bob Pulford. "We think his hockey knowledge will be a great benefit to the Blackhawks in all areas."

I have no inside knowledge, but I'd sooner give that '03 draft to Mike Smith's remaining staff before they got the axe in Nov. or Tallon, then I'd give credit to Pully that year.

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05-19-2010, 05:17 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ered7 View Post
I know Pully and old man Wirtz get a lot of flack for counting pennies, but most of that goes back to the 80s & 90s. By 2003, I seriously question how well Pulford was up-to-date on the upcoming prospects.

In Nov. 2003, they cleaned house of a lot of Mike Smith's crew, so perhaps Smith's guys should get more credit for that '03 draft. I even remember the press release touting Tallon's work on the scouting end prior to him being named Assistant GM on that same Nov. day.

"Dale has had experience in the scouting end of the business and he has done a very good job," said General Manager Bob Pulford. "We think his hockey knowledge will be a great benefit to the Blackhawks in all areas."

I have no inside knowledge, but I'd sooner give that '03 draft to Mike Smith's remaining staff before they got the axe in Nov. or Tallon, then I'd give credit to Pully that year.
Considering Mike Smith was still GM at 03 draft ,,,,,,, It was Mike Smith's draft

04 Pulford was GM
05 was Tallon's 1st draft

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05-20-2010, 05:12 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Considering Mike Smith was still GM at 03 draft ,,,,,,, It was Mike Smith's draft

04 Pulford was GM
05 was Tallon's 1st draft
Fair enough, if you believe Pulford was anything more than a figure head in '04, that's fine.

Edit: The only reason I would question giving Pulford the '04 draft was Tallon seemed to run the draft table, field questions from the media about Hawk picks, etc... that year.

http://web.archive.org/web/200406281...cont_id=247580

I know you're not a Tallon fan, I kind of gathered that. I'm not much of a fan of any of the Hawk GMs to be clear, I just feel like the whole Murray/Smith/Pulford/Tallon tenures get jumbled a lot.

The Hawks have such a shaky draft history that sometimes I think the people responsible for those picks like that there's ambiguity as to who was responsible.


Last edited by ered7: 05-20-2010 at 05:37 PM. Reason: Clarification
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Old
05-20-2010, 08:19 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Tallon is a average GM

Great at trades
Average at draft (Got better near end)
#### at contracts
Tough to judge.

But really, there is no excuse for the RFA screw up. That wasn't acceptable.

He lost his job for a reason.

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05-20-2010, 11:55 PM
  #43
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the RFA contracts were Stan Bowman's job.

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05-21-2010, 05:20 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Tallon is a average GM

Great at trades
Average at draft (Got better near end)
#### at contracts

I know the Tallon lovers/Mcdonaugh bashers are going to try and say he isn't at fault but almost every contract he gave out was ######## terrible

As for those that say it is Bowman's fault about cap problems. Dale is the idiot that made Campbell's contract structured at 7.1 mil a yr instead of front loaded thus making it more unlikely in future years that we could move it

Frankly Tallon's loyalty to his players was partly his undoing. Only a mental defective would want Havlat signed longterm.

I am glad Tallon lost the power struggle and we end up with Hossa instead of Havlat

Tallon is a nice guy but he should never have been our GM in 1st place. Only reason he got job was because he was a Dollar Bill yes man. Just like Savard dumping him was best for organization

And for all the BS about him building this team , He is only partly responsible

Sharp- Tallon
Versteeg - Tallon
Ladd - Tallon (Trading Smith's player in Ruutu)
Toews - Tallon (Easy pick)
Kane - Tallon (Easy pick)
Hossa - Bowman's (We know it was the Bowman's behind this not Dale)
Madden - Who know's ,,, When did Dale lose the power struggle and how much imput did he have in our recent FA's?
Kopecky - Bowman's
Eager - Tallon
Fraser - Pulford
Byfuglien - Smith pick
Burish - Smith pick
Bolland - Pulford pick
Brouwer - Pulford pick
Bickell - Pulford pick
Dowell - Pulford pick
Seabrook - Smith pick
Keith - Smith pick
Campbell - Tallon
Hammer - Tallon pick
Hendry - Tallon FA
Sopel - Tallon FA
Boynton - Bowman trade
Huet - Tallon
Niemi - Tallon

And for all the praise of his drafting only Niklas Hjalmarsson is an NHL regular outside of Toews and Kane from his drafts. His 1st 3 drafts are full of alot of fail!

Dale's a good guy and I am sure he will do better in his 2nd try as GM. But he is overated by people for the Hawks success.

The Hawks success is because of the death of Dollar Bill + 3 contribution of 3 GM's

What would Hawks look like if Seabrook and Keith were not picked by Smith?
What would Hawks look like if Brouwer and Bolland were not picked by Pulford?

There ,,, Those are my thoughts!!

Good luck Dale ,,, I am not about to rehash longstanding debate over Tallon during the Hawks playoff run!

He is gone ,,, Some supported that (Me for instance) and others didn't.
No one can deny love for Havlat. Hell, there were times were I cursed his name too but the fact of the matter is he was a blood, sweat and tears type of player, he gave everything to us and for that he will always have a place in my heart.

As for Tallon, great move for Florida. He's almost certain to build around Kulikov, Weiss and Frolik. Hopefully he doesn't draft horrible for you guys but the chips are there to really make that team.

And Bee-Dub...was Toews really a "gimme pick?" I mean, I distinctly remember a lot of "experts" saying Phil Kessel could easily been the pick as well. The rest is true but that's the argument I want to make.

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05-21-2010, 12:50 PM
  #45
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And Bee-Dub...was Toews really a "gimme pick?" I mean, I distinctly remember a lot of "experts" saying Phil Kessel could easily been the pick as well. The rest is true but that's the argument I want to make.
This is true. Kane really wasn't the consensus #1 pick that Steven Stamkos was the following year either. There was plenty of talk about his lack of size, and he was being lumped in with vanRiemsdyk and Turris as guys that could go anywhere from 1-3 in that draft.

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05-21-2010, 12:59 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by HawksRule7 View Post
This is true. Kane really wasn't the consensus #1 pick that Steven Stamkos was the following year either. There was plenty of talk about his lack of size, and he was being lumped in with vanRiemsdyk and Turris as guys that could go anywhere from 1-3 in that draft.
That was pretty much over by this time of the year. hawkfan50 was still pushing hard for Turris but, well, hawkfan50 is an idiot.

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05-21-2010, 01:11 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by BodamsHjammer View Post
No one can deny love for Havlat. Hell, there were times were I cursed his name too but the fact of the matter is he was a blood, sweat and tears type of player, he gave everything to us and for that he will always have a place in my heart.

As for Tallon, great move for Florida. He's almost certain to build around Kulikov, Weiss and Frolik. Hopefully he doesn't draft horrible for you guys but the chips are there to really make that team.

And Bee-Dub...was Toews really a "gimme pick?" I mean, I distinctly remember a lot of "experts" saying Phil Kessel could easily been the pick as well. The rest is true but that's the argument I want to make.
I loved Havlat as a player also but he should never get a longterm contract. The fact Tallon wanted to give him one was a sign of his weakness due to loyalty.

If Havlat was given the contract he got from Wild from Hawks we would have lived to regret it

Hawks would never have picked Kessel because of the problems between him and Skille. No team builds its future around guys that hate each other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HawksRule7 View Post
This is true. Kane really wasn't the consensus #1 pick that Steven Stamkos was the following year either. There was plenty of talk about his lack of size, and he was being lumped in with vanRiemsdyk and Turris as guys that could go anywhere from 1-3 in that draft.
Kane was the only one who was NHL ready. Hawks made no secret of the fact they wanted to improve there team for the present not in future at time of draft.

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That was pretty much over by this time of the year. hawkfan50 was still pushing hard for Turris but, well, hawkfan50 is an idiot.
,, God I wish I would have found out about HF a few months earlier

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05-21-2010, 01:14 PM
  #48
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That was pretty much over by this time of the year. hawkfan50 was still pushing hard for Turris but, well, hawkfan50 is an idiot.
Oh man, he was posting the same things over here? His Turris love fest was all over the official boards as well.

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05-21-2010, 01:18 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post



,, God I wish I would have found out about HF a few months earlier
He used to write posts (that felt like a long chapter in a book) over on the main boards as well about the almighty Turris.

Edit: What Hawksrule7 said... just beat me too it.

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05-21-2010, 01:30 PM
  #50
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He used to write posts (that felt like a long chapter in a book) over on the main boards as well about the almighty Turris.

Edit: What Hawksrule7 said... just beat me too it.
By 2007 I was pretty much done with the main boards

I used to talk hockey on ESPN boards (Yes all 5 or 6 posters we had over there) and on White Sox official message boards in hockey thread (All like 3 pages of it )

I found out about HF because another poster on ESPN said it was the best message board to talk hockey about and thus I came over and took a look and I have been here ever since

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