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Ovechkin with team Russia - mediocre in important games

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Old
05-21-2010, 12:49 PM
  #1
Siberian
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Ovechkin with team Russia - mediocre in important games

I thought I need to summarize the importance of Ovechkin for team Russia in big games - it is almost non-existant. He almost always scores against weak teams and never delivers against top teams in sudden death games. I only remember him scoring a goal against Canada in Turin in 2006, which really was a super nice set-up by Viktor Kozlov and assisting Semin on the first goal in Quebec. Outside of these two I don't remember him delivering for team Russia in big games.

What makes me mad about him is that in my mind he has three flaws that he shouldn't have with his skills

1. He turns the puck over as nobody else, sometimes loses it like a rookie. I really do not undersand why.

2. His creativity level is low. He does do the same things all over again and again - those who studied his tapes know exactly what he will do next second. Good D with top game preparation eats him alive 95% of the time.

3. He does not want to work in the corners and when he does he just looks like he doesn't want to work hard.

I don't really want to basj Obvechkin because his dedication to team Russia is unreal but I hope he actually thinks about his failures in super important games and rediscovers what he needs to do in order to be successful. He needs to stop being just a regular season performer.

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05-21-2010, 01:56 PM
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Ilya Kovalchoke*
 
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Meh he's young, he'll figure it out.

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05-21-2010, 02:00 PM
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JackSlater
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Ovechkin tries to do too much in big games, forgetting that he has teammates that are also quite capable hockey players. He seems to like to try the same things over and over again, which doesn't work as well against a team of elite players that have been preparing for him. I would have to think that he will get better in this regard as he matures.

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05-21-2010, 02:10 PM
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Ilya Kovalchoke*
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackSlater View Post
Ovechkin tries to do too much in big games, forgetting that he has teammates that are also quite capable hockey players. He seems to like to try the same things over and over again, which doesn't work as well against a team of elite players that have been preparing for him. I would have to think that he will get better in this regard as he matures.
That was what I saw from him in the NHL playoffs. But with Russia against Canada yesterday he seemed to use his teammates alright. In fact he had a 2-1 and the Canadian dman had taken away the passing lane, giving OV a great chance to shoot but he tried to make the pass and turned it over. It seems like he just makes poor decisions some times, but with more experience he will make the right plays at the right times.

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05-21-2010, 02:13 PM
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Frank the Tank
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  • Mercurial attitude towards backchecking, which is more of a problem when one is prone to turning over the puck in the offensive zone.
  • Cheating on defensive responsibilities to create offensive chances. This may net one 50+ goals in the NHL regular season, but remains a risky strategy when everything in on the line in the playoffs (NHL or international).
  • Long shifts that involve bursts of activity followed by a lot of coasting on the ice, which as a leader set a poor example for your teammates, especially when the coach is preaching short shifts.
  • He makes poor line changes. This goes with the poor backchecking as he often floats over for a line change after a failed rush rather than attempting to break up the teams counter-rush.
  • His alpha-dog personality. If he lands a few big hits and starts intimidating the other team, he flies around the ice. If a team starts knocking him around, he seems to become submissive and no longer has a significant impact on the game.

All that being said, Ovechkin is the best offensive player in the game. No one can score goals like he does because of the physical skills he possesses; however, when the games get tighter he becomes a two-edged sword that can hurt just a much as he can help his team.

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05-21-2010, 02:29 PM
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Wings4Life
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Maybe he needs to finish his lessons from mentor Sergei Fedorov, who has played quite well in big games against Canada:

Best on best

96-97 World Cup: 1 goal in 1 game against Canada
2010 Olympics: 1 assist in 1 game against Canada

World Championships

2008: 2 assists in 1 game against Canada (gold medal match vs stacked team)
2010: 1 goal in 1 game against Canada

Fedorov was a Canadian killer, maybe he can teach Ovechkin a thing or two about how to play these big international games.

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05-21-2010, 03:31 PM
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yesterday was a drubbing in a quarterfinal game. That qualifies as a "big game" to you guys? This is ridiculous

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05-21-2010, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by MattBradleyKO View Post
yesterday was a drubbing in a quarterfinal game. That qualifies as a "big game" to you guys? This is ridiculous
What took you so long?

Would it have been a big game if Russia lost?

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05-21-2010, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Siberian View Post
1. He turns the puck over as nobody else, sometimes loses it like a rookie. I really do not undersand why.

2. His creativity level is low. He does do the same things all over again and again - those who studied his tapes know exactly what he will do next second. Good D with top game preparation eats him alive 95% of the time.

3. He does not want to work in the corners and when he does he just looks like he doesn't want to work hard.

I don't really want to basj Obvechkin because his dedication to team Russia is unreal but I hope he actually thinks about his failures in super important games and rediscovers what he needs to do in order to be successful. He needs to stop being just a regular season performer.
2). This is one of the most used, and extremely retarded things I see on these boards. People know what he's going to do. And they STILL can't stop him. You give him an inch one way and he'll blow right by you, or give an inch another way and he'll rip a wrister top cheese. This is like saying "Shaquille O'Neal's creativity level is low, all he does is back you down to the hoop and dunk it". Retarded.

3). Ovechkin works his ass off, even in the corners. Maybe he doesn't in the D zone because he's a winger, and that's not the way the Caps system runs. In the offensive zone in the corners he busts his ass. If every player on the Caps worked as hard as Ovechkin every game, then they'd be A-OK. He brings it every night, despite what people on here say after watching him for 5 minutes when the Caps are on Vs 1 time a week.

As for your last point- "regular season performer"? I'm sorry man, that is flat out retarded. He's been DOMINANT in the postseason. Look at his stats in elimination games for the Caps. I hate how people arbitrarily decide which games are "big" and which games aren't. These threads are ridiculous.

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05-21-2010, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by daver View Post
What took you so long?

Would it have been a big game if Russia lost?
I don't really think any game in the WCs, aside from maybe the gold medal game, qualify as "big".

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05-21-2010, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank the Tank View Post
Add:
  • Mercurial attitude towards backchecking, which is more of a problem when one is prone to turning over the puck in the offensive zone.
  • Cheating on defensive responsibilities to create offensive chances. This may net one 50+ goals in the NHL regular season, but remains a risky strategy when everything in on the line in the playoffs (NHL or international).
  • Long shifts that involve bursts of activity followed by a lot of coasting on the ice, which as a leader set a poor example for your teammates, especially when the coach is preaching short shifts.
  • He makes poor line changes. This goes with the poor backchecking as he often floats over for a line change after a failed rush rather than attempting to break up the teams counter-rush.
  • His alpha-dog personality. If he lands a few big hits and starts intimidating the other team, he flies around the ice. If a team starts knocking him around, he seems to become submissive and no longer has a significant impact on the game.

All that being said, Ovechkin is the best offensive player in the game. No one can score goals like he does because of the physical skills he possesses; however, when the games get tighter he becomes a two-edged sword that can hurt just a much as he can help his team.

this is flat out wrong. Whenever people start hitting him he gets pissed and rises to the challenge. At times he'll be like a bull and see red a bit too much, but saying he becomes submissive when play turns physical is one of the dumbest things I've ever read on this site.

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05-21-2010, 03:49 PM
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NeilYoung
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He has 4 game winning goals in the tournament

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05-21-2010, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by CapsGreat08AO View Post
He has 4 game winning goals in the tournament
yes, but none of those games fit the arbitrary definition of "big".

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05-21-2010, 04:23 PM
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MontrealHabitant
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Originally Posted by Onisac View Post
Oh look, a Crosby fan trying to make people believe Ovechkin sucks in big games.

Ovechkin vs. the Habs in Round 1: 5 goals 5 assists (in 7 games)
Sidney Crosby vs. the Habs in Round 2: 1 goal 4 assists (in 7 games)

But let me guess, poor Sid was gassed because he did all the work versus the Sens! Not to mention he has crappy linemates . If he was that predictable and easy to stop, he wouldn't have as many goals year after year. Any big name player can be contained if the coach makes it a priority to shut-him down. Yes, Crosby too. See finals and this year versus habs.
I believe Siberian is Russian or atleast support's Russia's hockey team.

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05-21-2010, 04:40 PM
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Honestly I don't like laying blame on one player in a team game. If Ovechkin is being watched hard and double teamed that gives the other 4 skaters on his team extra room. If teams are going after Ovechkin, our star player, the other guys need to protect him and hit them back. There is nothing wrong with the skills or the physical make up of the national team. What is wrong is the mental makeup of our teams. We don't need a better coach, we don't need better defense, we don't need better forwards, we need a psychiatrist who will set our guys straight. The problem with our guys is that most of them aren't warriors, they are just spoiled rich kids that instantly lose their confidence and winning mindset when things tip the other way. How do you not have confidence and determination when you got the quality of players that are on our national team and you put on the national team jersey? It is because our guys aren't used to banding together and over coming adversity. Those old USSR teams, they played for each other and IN SPITE of their coach, not for him. They had enemies on the ice to over come and enemies in their own hockey federation to overcome. Our hockey system doesn't make players like those any more. All we have now is the golden youth with hockey sticks. Where are the real Russians? Working in some factory somewhere and not playing hockey, that's for sure. We need more guys like Darius Kasparitis in our system. I look at the young guys we have now in the NHL and they make it seem like playing in the NHL and for the national team is the hardest thing in the world for them. I would love to see what they would have been like if they came in with the first wave of Russians into the NHL, where your teammates didn't want to play with you, or play for our national team under the old USSR system. So its not just Ovechkin, if any thing he is closer to what kind of guy we actually need, it is our whole hockey systems mindset. For Sochi, i would take our guys, and spend a few weeks doing some sort of team building excessive in the middle of Russia somewhere. Away from the rink, away from luxuries and reporters. Let them learn overcome physical hardship together and stick up for one another.

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05-21-2010, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by MattBradleyKO View Post
yesterday was a drubbing in a quarterfinal game. That qualifies as a "big game" to you guys? This is ridiculous
Pretty much, it was a blowout. The team won, isn't that what matters in the long run?

The loss to Canada in the Olympics was the whole team laying an egg.

Also, what the hell is going on here. Siberian bashing Ovechkin, me agreeing with MattBradleyKO?

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05-21-2010, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Onisac View Post
Ovechkin vs. the Habs in Round 1: 5 goals 5 assists (in 7 games)
Sidney Crosby vs. the Habs in Round 2: 1 goal 4 assists (in 7 games)
Didn't notice the stats between the two before, Ovechkin did play better

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05-21-2010, 05:06 PM
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Frank the Tank
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Originally Posted by MattBradleyKO View Post
this is flat out wrong. Whenever people start hitting him he gets pissed and rises to the challenge. At times he'll be like a bull and see red a bit too much, but saying he becomes submissive when play turns physical is one of the dumbest things I've ever read on this site.
I agree that when one man (e.g., Richards, Chara) tries to play him physical he responds and often overwhelms his opponent. On the other hand, when a team has played against him physically (see Team Canada at the WJC 2005 and the Olympics 2010) he has backed off surprisingly. Such a strategy is difficult to employ in the NHL because no NHL team has numerous defenseman like Weber, Doughty, Pronger, etc... to constantly engage and skate with Ovechkin. Since this thread has an international origin to it, however, I believe my criticism is just.


Last edited by Frank the Tank: 05-21-2010 at 05:12 PM. Reason: grammar
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05-21-2010, 05:16 PM
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Frank the Tank
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Originally Posted by Onisac View Post
Oh look, a Crosby fan trying to make people believe Ovechkin sucks in big games.

Ovechkin vs. the Habs in Round 1: 5 goals 5 assists (in 7 games)
Sidney Crosby vs. the Habs in Round 2: 1 goal 4 assists (in 7 games)

But let me guess, poor Sid was gassed because he did all the work versus the Sens! Not to mention he has crappy linemates . If he was that predictable and easy to stop, he wouldn't have as many goals year after year. Any big name player can be contained if the coach makes it a priority to shut-him down. Yes, Crosby too. See finals and this year versus habs.
Yes, let us eliminate all the other data and focus one playoffs series each when comparing these two players. What do you know? We can draw the conclusion that Ovechkin losing in the first round against the Habs is more impressive than Crosby in the second. OR, one can look at the overall picture and conclude that they both had below average playoffs where they racked up the points in a few games and failed to score when the games mattered against Montreal.

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05-21-2010, 05:40 PM
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Game plan when playing against Ovy's team: counter Ovechkin.

If you succeed, you might win the game, if you fail, you lose the game.

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05-21-2010, 05:47 PM
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Zen Arcade
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Originally Posted by MontrealHabitant View Post
I believe Siberian is Russian or atleast support's Russia's hockey team.
That and he absolutely loathes Crosby.

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05-21-2010, 05:56 PM
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Siberian
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Who cares about NHL games and Crosby in this thread. I am trying to make an analysis and discuss why Ovechkin has never really delivered for team Russia and there is all kind of off-topic is going on here.

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05-21-2010, 05:57 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank the Tank View Post
Add:
  • Mercurial attitude towards backchecking, which is more of a problem when one is prone to turning over the puck in the offensive zone.
  • Cheating on defensive responsibilities to create offensive chances. This may net one 50+ goals in the NHL regular season, but remains a risky strategy when everything in on the line in the playoffs (NHL or international).
  • Long shifts that involve bursts of activity followed by a lot of coasting on the ice, which as a leader set a poor example for your teammates, especially when the coach is preaching short shifts.
  • He makes poor line changes. This goes with the poor backchecking as he often floats over for a line change after a failed rush rather than attempting to break up the teams counter-rush.
  • His alpha-dog personality. If he lands a few big hits and starts intimidating the other team, he flies around the ice. If a team starts knocking him around, he seems to become submissive and no longer has a significant impact on the game.

All that being said, Ovechkin is the best offensive player in the game. No one can score goals like he does because of the physical skills he possesses; however, when the games get tighter he becomes a two-edged sword that can hurt just a much as he can help his team.
Agree almost on all of them except on the last one.

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05-21-2010, 06:16 PM
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To defend Ovechkin : he is in the WC !!

he has a huge salary, spends incredible minutes per game in NHL all the year ... and still goes to the national team ! Cudos to him ! respect !

(actually the same is true for all the russian team !)

Then, about how he plays in these WC ? i would say that sometimes you have a good period and sometimes a bad one. To me he is a top player without doubt. Yet even Maradona had poor periods. So let his hockey equivalent (paar with Crosby) have his periods of desert without questioning his fundamental skills.


Last edited by William H Bonney: 05-24-2010 at 12:31 AM. Reason: deleted off topic crosby reference
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05-21-2010, 06:39 PM
  #25
Frank the Tank
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Agree almost on all of them except on the last one.
As I stated previously, very few teams have the personnel to literally knock him off his game, but I have seen it happen twice now against Team Canada. I have yet to see this happen in the NHL.

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