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International Tournaments Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

What can the IIHF do to fix the World Championships of Hockey?

View Poll Results: What would you like to see happen to improve the significance of the WC's?
Move the tournament to after the NHL regular season. 11 11.22%
Move the Tournament to before the NHL regular season 18 18.37%
Have a World Championships every 4 years, alternating with the Olympics. 35 35.71%
Ask to see if the NHL and other leagues would allow a break for 2 weeks during the Regular Season 14 14.29%
Other 20 20.41%
Voters: 98. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-21-2010, 02:07 PM
  #26
Canucks5551
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I think all of the solutions would cause problems too. I think it's best to realize that the tournament doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things and just look at it as another excuse to watch hockey and keep it as it is.

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05-21-2010, 02:15 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Canucks5551 View Post
I think all of the solutions would cause problems too. I think it's best to realize that the tournament doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things and just look at it as another excuse to watch hockey and keep it as it is.
Yep.

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05-21-2010, 02:22 PM
  #28
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The biggest problem is that the NHL-season is just too long at least if you want to schedule the WC so its good for everybody...

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05-21-2010, 02:33 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Drake1588 View Post
Would it be the worst idea in the world if the US and Canada didn't send teams to the World Championships?

I'm not sure that it would be such a bad idea if this became a European invitational. European countries, federations and fans care most passionately about the tournament; the IIHF relies on it to generate revenues each year in Europe; and all North Americans do on a regular basis is put the tournament down, demeaning it by sending B and C and D teams to compete. Today's contest did nothing other than to say that the top Russian players, embarrassed in Vancouver, wanted to make up for their lack of success; while top Canadian players, following a long NHL season and victory in Vancouver, passed in record numbers. That is, players who are not still playing NHL hockey, passed in record numbers.

As it is, it's a tournament intended to bolster the IIHF's fortunes in Europe, spread the game to rising European hockey countries. The governing authority can't be bothered to delay the tourney two to three weeks to integrate the best players in the world who are still playing hockey during the NHL season, in a league that is international to a great extent, but which predominantly comprises players born in Canada or the US (76 percent North American, as of January 2010. Source).

We all recognize the reality that North American players and fans don't think much of the WHCs, and we all know that the IIHF doesn't think enough of the two North American nations to delay the tourney long enough to finish the NHL, AHL or even CHL seasons to allow the two countries to send their best players. Make it official: This tournament is about European teams and European fans, and always has been about Europe.
Obviously both Canada and US are interested in sending a team to the Worlds. If they weren´t, they already wouldn´t be sending one.

IMO there were times when these teams sent much more inferior teams in amateur days than they use today. Back then even with some amateur team it was enough for Canada to dominate. Today, even their C team is not good enough to clearly beat the weaker elite division teams, so their fans throw a fit about it.

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05-21-2010, 02:35 PM
  #30
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The only problem with the World championship are the no-thanks from the top nations top players.

95% of the best NHL-players are available. Its not the time in the year who transform the championship to a "B-championship" its the players them self. Most of the top players are free to go.

If the top players from Czech.Republic, Sweden, Finland, Canada, Slovakia and USA have done the same as the Russian top players we had have a "A-Championship" every year. The biggest problem are the new attitude from the European players. They make it a "B-championship".

So the federation in every top nation must work with the players to turn things around. Russia are a good role model. But if things shall work out good the federation most take action against the no-go-players.

If a player feels its a to small honor to play for the national team in the World Championship the federation shall not call the player and ask if he wants to play in the Olympics. In Sweden it feels like the top players only wants to play for the national team in the Olympics. In the World Championship they cant go if they got a bruise but in the Olympics they will play for the team from the hospital bed....

Hopefully will the new generation turned up if they out of the SC and not only once every four year....

All cred to the Russian players, they make the championship so much interesting and I hope the Russian people appreciate the players.

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05-21-2010, 02:50 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lerik View Post
The only problem with the World championship are the no-thanks from the top nations top players.

95% of the best NHL-players are available. Its not the time in the year who transform the championship to a "B-championship" its the players them self. Most of the top players are free to go.

If the top players from Czech.Republic, Sweden, Finland, Canada, Slovakia and USA have done the same as the Russian top players we had have a "A-Championship" every year. The biggest problem are the new attitude from the European players. They make it a "B-championship".

So the federation in every top nation must work with the players to turn things around. Russia are a good role model. But if things shall work out good the federation most take action against the no-go-players.

If a player feels its a to small honor to play for the national team in the World Championship the federation shall not call the player and ask if he wants to play in the Olympics. In Sweden it feels like the top players only wants to play for the national team in the Olympics. In the World Championship they cant go if they got a bruise but in the Olympics they will play for the team from the hospital bed....

Hopefully will the new generation turned up if they out of the SC and not only once every four year....

All cred to the Russian players, they make the championship so much interesting and I hope the Russian people appreciate the players.
Russia only has a strong team this year because most of their "A" players were knocked out of the playoffs early and could come play. This would be diff if say Pitt and Washington were playing for the Eastern Conference title. It still comes down to the fact that if this tourny is held while the NHL playoffs are going on, some players after a long season and playoffs do not want to play any more hockey.

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05-21-2010, 02:53 PM
  #32
a pony
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How can you call it the World Championships when the bulk of the best players in the world are unable to participate?

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05-21-2010, 02:58 PM
  #33
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How not?

The name doesn't say that the world's best players have to take part?

Even the division II and III tournaments are world championships.

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05-21-2010, 03:00 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by nature6pk View Post
How can you call it the World Championships when the bulk of the best players in the world are unable to participate?
The IIHF consider themselves and rightfully the world's governing body of hockey. From their perspective national championships should be over by the day the tournament starts. This is the case in all but two member nations.
Everybody from qualified nations is eligible to participate...

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05-21-2010, 03:17 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by mexicohockey View Post
The IIHF consider themselves and rightfully the world's governing body of hockey. From their perspective national championships should be over by the day the tournament starts. This is the case in all but two member nations.
Everybody from qualified nations is eligible to participate...
But that's like calling the local swim meet the World Championships and crowning the winner the World Champion. Just because the top athletes in the world were unable to attend doesn't make 13 year old Sally Jensen a less legitimate winner, does it? I for one don't want to be the one to tell her.

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05-21-2010, 03:21 PM
  #36
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Maybe the IIHF shouldnt cater to Canada. Europe loves the WHC and it's slowly gaining popularity in Canada.

TSN made the WJHC into a big tournament by marketing it. They could do the same with the WHC if they wanted. If the IIHF offered some more money to TSN it might work.

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05-21-2010, 03:23 PM
  #37
mexicohockey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nature6pk View Post
But that's like calling the local swim meet the World Championships and crowning the winner the World Champion. Just because the top athletes in the world were unable to attend doesn't make 13 year old Sally Jensen a less legitimate winner, does it? I for one don't want to be the one to tell her.
Well the difference is that it's not the local hockey club that invites but the world's governing body of the sport. Canada and the US are members.
Some athletes choose not to attend, for a variety of reasons, the most important being - let's face it - money.

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05-21-2010, 03:33 PM
  #38
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First, the IIHF should quit having a world champs when there is an olympic year. Its obvious that many of the NHL players dont have the endurance to play two int. tourneys/year. My guess there is too much money on stake for the IIHF (members, like each european national hockey fed.) to back down on the yearly tournaments, but in the long run I think it could be good even for IIHF economy.

Secondly they should try to take the tourney to the NA more often.

Though for those who are interested in prospects (like many here on this forums) the absence of established stars makes it possible to watch new up and coming talent of the world, so its not all negative that the stars aren't participating.

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05-21-2010, 03:34 PM
  #39
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Personally I still think we need to pullout of that Tournament for multiple reasons

1st: It's a Europeans tournament and that is perfectly understandable

2nd: Sending our lesser skilled players to compete in this tournament and fail does indeed look somewhat weird when you just won the OG. It gives a bad view of Team Canada and the IIHF.

3rd: The tournament needs to keep existing for the sake of developing Hockey.

I think most Canadians don't care, but the problem is on HFBoards - we're all hardcore hockey fans and while I haven't watched a single game of the tournament ( been working) - I can't stand hearing some Europeans fans here mention how we failed and so on, it's like the ultimate unnecessary provocation.

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05-21-2010, 03:38 PM
  #40
mexicohockey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MontrealHabitant View Post
Personally I still think we need to pullout of that Tournament
Unfortunately, Canada will pull out of the Olympics as well the IOC bases its entry policy on the IIHF world rankings....

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05-21-2010, 04:30 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mexicohockey View Post
The IIHF consider themselves and rightfully the world's governing body of hockey. From their perspective national championships should be over by the day the tournament starts. This is the case in all but two member nations.
Everybody from qualified nations is eligible to participate...
That "rightfully" part can be a serious point of contention over here. From our perspective, you can say the game of hockey grew up on two different continents with roughly the same number of population and players. One continent however has a lot more borders dividing it so they get to call their hockey the 'international' version? For example, I believe the international ice rink size is simply the Russian standard, which of course was adopted throughout the old Soviet block.

I'm not saying that our hockey should be called international hockey, I'm just saying it's not so black and white. You make it sound like there's an existing organized international structure in place, with two rogue nations that don't really follow along. Where as I'd say there's two styles of hockey in the world, a North American version and a European version, and one of them took it upon themselves to call there's International hockey. That does not imply it's an Intercontinental hockey organization.

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05-21-2010, 04:44 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drake1588 View Post
Would it be the worst idea in the world if the US and Canada didn't send teams to the World Championships?

I'm not sure that it would be such a bad idea if this became a European invitational. European countries, federations and fans care most passionately about the tournament; the IIHF relies on it to generate revenues each year in Europe; and all North Americans do on a regular basis is put the tournament down, demeaning it by sending B and C and D teams to compete. Today's contest did nothing other than to say that the top Russian players, embarrassed in Vancouver, wanted to make up for their lack of success; while top Canadian players, following a long NHL season and victory in Vancouver, passed in record numbers. That is, players who are not still playing NHL hockey, passed in record numbers.

As it is, it's a tournament intended to bolster the IIHF's fortunes in Europe, spread the game to rising European hockey countries. The governing authority can't be bothered to delay the tourney two to three weeks to integrate the best players in the world who are still playing hockey during the NHL season, in a league that is international to a great extent, but which predominantly comprises players born in Canada or the US (76 percent North American, as of January 2010. Source).

We all recognize the reality that North American players and fans don't think much of the WHCs, and we all know that the IIHF doesn't think enough of the two North American nations to delay the tourney long enough to finish the NHL, AHL or even CHL seasons to allow the two countries to send their best players. Make it official: This tournament is about European teams and European fans, and always has been about Europe.
If Canada and the US don't participate in the WHC, they would have to go through qualifications for the Olympics.

Qualifications go on during the same time as the NHL season, which means you're going to have Team Canada and Team USA made up of European and AHL players trying to qualify for the Olympics.

So this would be fine as long as Canadians and Americans are ok with possibly losing to France or Ukraine and not making it into the Olympics.

But to answer the OP: Fix what? The WHC is fine.

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05-21-2010, 04:45 PM
  #43
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I'd be happy with the USA and Canada pulling out.
At least this subforum would be a lot more enjoyable.

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05-21-2010, 04:56 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drake1588 View Post
Would it be the worst idea in the world if the US and Canada didn't send teams to the World Championships?

I'm not sure that it would be such a bad idea if this became a European invitational. European countries, federations and fans care most passionately about the tournament; the IIHF relies on it to generate revenues each year in Europe; and all North Americans do on a regular basis is put the tournament down, demeaning it by sending B and C and D teams to compete. Today's contest did nothing other than to say that the top Russian players, embarrassed in Vancouver, wanted to make up for their lack of success; while top Canadian players, following a long NHL season and victory in Vancouver, passed in record numbers. That is, players who are not still playing NHL hockey, passed in record numbers.

As it is, it's a tournament intended to bolster the IIHF's fortunes in Europe, spread the game to rising European hockey countries. The governing authority can't be bothered to delay the tourney two to three weeks to integrate the best players in the world who are still playing hockey during the NHL season, in a league that is international to a great extent, but which predominantly comprises players born in Canada or the US (76 percent North American, as of January 2010. Source).

We all recognize the reality that North American players and fans don't think much of the WHCs, and we all know that the IIHF doesn't think enough of the two North American nations to delay the tourney long enough to finish the NHL, AHL or even CHL seasons to allow the two countries to send their best players. Make it official: This tournament is about European teams and European fans, and always has been about Europe.
I don't agree with the overall point, but I do with the general idea. The IIHF should stop worrying about accomodating the NHL and instead make the WC the best European tournament they can. Accept that many of the worlds best players will be tied up in the NHL playoffs and unavailable, and do the most with what they have available.

For my whacky idea, rather than try and work around the NHL playoffs why not compete directly with it? There's a reason why we love our Stanley Cup playoffs over here, and that's because it's two months of the best hockey you'll find in an annual event. So rather than start the WC's somewhere around round 2 of the NHL playoffs, start it at about the same time, to create a clear cut off and provide NHL players that didn't make the playoffs something else to compete in. Then seed teams based on world rankings (and maybe a couple placement games), and make it a seeded best of 7 tournament.

I know the idea is full of holes and there'd be a lot to work out, but the main idea behind it is seeing say Sweden vs Finland or Russia vs Czech, comprised of the best players from their elite leagues with a few supplimental NHLers, playing a best of 7 elimination series would beat the snot out of single round robin/elimination games.

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05-21-2010, 05:11 PM
  #45
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I don't see how it would hurt the tournament to take place after the NHL playoffs. Don't European teams want all their NHL players to be available too? I don't think it's just a Canada/US issue. Don't you think that Finland would have liked Niemi for the tournament? Or how about Chara and Hossa for Slovakia?

Shouldn't the Worlds have the very best players in the world participating?

And I don't see how looking to attract North American fans is bad for the Worlds. The only thing I could think of would be that perhaps Football would take away ratings if they had it a month later.

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05-21-2010, 05:15 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by RandV View Post
That "rightfully" part can be a serious point of contention over here. From our perspective, you can say the game of hockey grew up on two different continents with roughly the same number of population and players.
Canada and the USA are members of the IIHF, a not-for-profit organization to govern the sport. Solely on-ice success determines if a country is allowed to compete on the highest level.
The NHL - their superior skill level non-withstanding - on the other hand is a revenue-generating entity that allows participation of teams on different grounds than merits in the sport.
Given the huge impact that the NHL has on the sport of hockey in general the IIHF is well advise to take the NHL's arguments into account, however on an equal level.

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05-21-2010, 05:20 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by spectraljulian View Post
I don't see how it would hurt the tournament to take place after the NHL playoffs. Don't European teams want all their NHL players to be available too?
Most league seasons in europe end in march, play-offs mid april. It is very difficult the stay in shape that long, i.e. until june, even for NHLers who didn't make the POs. and who would be interested in hockey in summer anyway? And players always state as main reasons why they chose not to attend the WHC is being tired and needing time with their families. How many players would want to go to the WHCs after a Stanley Cup run and a season with 100+ games?

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05-21-2010, 05:21 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by spectraljulian View Post
I don't see how it would hurt the tournament to take place after the NHL playoffs. Don't European teams want all their NHL players to be available too? I don't think it's just a Canada/US issue. Don't you think that Finland would have liked Niemi for the tournament? Or how about Chara and Hossa for Slovakia?

Shouldn't the Worlds have the very best players in the world participating?

And I don't see how looking to attract North American fans is bad for the Worlds. The only thing I could think of would be that perhaps Football would take away ratings if they had it a month later.
Why does it matter what names are on the back? It's the world championships, when the only name that matters is on the FRONT.

If some 3rd line scrub from the Swiss league dresses up for team Finland, he has become just as important as Teemu Selanne.

The WC is about development and national pride. It doesn't matter who is on the ice, as long as they are playing for their country and the benefit of themselves and/or the national program. (development)

The WC is not an all-star festival so I really don't get the obsession with people wanting to see the best players.

And to your point about starting after the NHL playoffs. This would be fantastic. But I doubt the NHL is going to move its season start time up to the same time as all of Europe's different leagues. It's not the IIHF's fault that the NHL starts so late.

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05-21-2010, 05:25 PM
  #49
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as i noted the other day i liked how this year it started later so those who were knocked out in the 2nd round of the NHL playoffs were available to go as well. it may have only helped the russians this season, but how many of the players who made it to 3rd rounds this season would've said yes if they had been knocked out sooner?

it won't help all NHL players, but as others have noted there has to be an in between for other leagues who end sooner to stay in shape

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05-21-2010, 05:25 PM
  #50
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It's not a best on best competition so it will always be a fringe tournament. I think NHL players should stop going all together personally. I hope Canada continues to treat it as a development tournament.

If it were up to me, I would make it a young stars tournament (23 and under) and move it to start immediately following the Finals. I know I would be far more interested in watching that.

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