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Johnny Boychuk? Go hard after him.

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Old
05-19-2010, 06:53 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by bobbop View Post
Huh? He's been in the mnors for most of the last 6 years and you think someone wants to pay him what? How much does Orpik make a year?
Toronto payed Finger and the Avs payed Clark. They were in the minors for most of their careers expect for 1 season.

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05-19-2010, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by hpNYR View Post
Girardi isn't even close to having the skating(acceleration), physical edge, and shot that Boychuk has.
Boychuk is your new flavor of the week. The player has a few good months.

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05-19-2010, 09:15 AM
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He is intriguing but not worth investing a lot of money long-term.

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05-19-2010, 02:33 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Boychuk is your new flavor of the week. The player has a few good months.
A few good months that count the most. The entire circumstance is very intriguing. The way the Bruins could get screwed, the amount he was making, and the amount you can get him for compared to other options out there in free agency.

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05-19-2010, 04:23 PM
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him or kurtis foster i would like to get

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05-20-2010, 09:34 AM
  #56
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We all complain about how Sather throws money around, and yet, some of you guys are willing to throw 3+ mil at a 26 year old rookie?

There are many other options out there that are a lot more proven. I'd like to think we'd go after those first.

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05-20-2010, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
The Rangers should hang up the phone when Boychuk's agent calls on July 1.
Sums up my thoughts.

An NHL proven defensive defenseman is worth $3.5-4MM. Just because other teams are stupid, the Rangers shouldn't be.

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05-20-2010, 05:12 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by bobbop View Post
Sums up my thoughts.

An NHL proven defensive defenseman is worth $3.5-4MM. Just because other teams are stupid, the Rangers shouldn't be.


James Wiesniewski - 2.75
*Mat Hunwick* - 1.450
Andrej Sekera- 1.00
*Tony Lydman*- 2.875
*Henrik Tallinder*- 2.562
Steve Staois - 2.700
Ian White - 0.850
*Tim Gleason*- 2.750 --------- I can see Boychuk getting something similar to him.
Brent Sopel- 2.333
*Fedor Tyutin* (my fave defenive d-men) - 2.843
*Rotislav Klesla*- 2.975
Bret Hejda- 2.00
*Karlis Skrastins* - 1.375
*Ladislav Smid*- 1.350

Thats just the first 12 teams I went through. Some may be UFA's , however most aren't. There are a number of very good d-men in that list who make less then 3.5.

I put stars around the very good d-men.

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05-20-2010, 08:59 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hpNYR View Post


James Wiesniewski - 2.75
*Mat Hunwick* - 1.450
Andrej Sekera- 1.00
*Tony Lydman*- 2.875
*Henrik Tallinder*- 2.562
Steve Staois - 2.700
Ian White - 0.850
*Tim Gleason*- 2.750 --------- I can see Boychuk getting something similar to him.
Brent Sopel- 2.333
*Fedor Tyutin* (my fave defenive d-men) - 2.843
*Rotislav Klesla*- 2.975
Bret Hejda- 2.00
*Karlis Skrastins* - 1.375
*Ladislav Smid*- 1.350

Thats just the first 12 teams I went through. Some may be UFA's , however most aren't. There are a number of very good d-men in that list who make less then 3.5.

I put stars around the very good d-men.
The large majority of the guys you listed got their deals when they were RFAs (meaning that they generally don't have as much leverage as a UFA), so using them as examples isn't really that valid.

Tallinder and White in particular are due for significant raises this offseason.

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05-21-2010, 09:57 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by hpNYR View Post


James Wiesniewski - 2.75
*Mat Hunwick* - 1.450
Andrej Sekera- 1.00
*Tony Lydman*- 2.875
*Henrik Tallinder*- 2.562
Steve Staois - 2.700
Ian White - 0.850
*Tim Gleason*- 2.750 --------- I can see Boychuk getting something similar to him.
Brent Sopel- 2.333
*Fedor Tyutin* (my fave defenive d-men) - 2.843
*Rotislav Klesla*- 2.975
Bret Hejda- 2.00
*Karlis Skrastins* - 1.375
*Ladislav Smid*- 1.350

Thats just the first 12 teams I went through. Some may be UFA's , however most aren't. There are a number of very good d-men in that list who make less then 3.5.

I put stars around the very good d-men.
My model for a proven defensive defenseman is Brooks Orpik. Several of these guys have never been UFA and others are more offensive than defensive. Some of the contracts you note also include players giving up UFA years (i.e. Tyutin) You completely missed my poiint -- top end defensive defensemen don't get the same $ as offensive defensemen.

If Gleason was a UFA, he'd be making $4MM easily. Maybe more.

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05-21-2010, 04:35 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbop View Post
My model for a proven defensive defenseman is Brooks Orpik. Several of these guys have never been UFA and others are more offensive than defensive. Some of the contracts you note also include players giving up UFA years (i.e. Tyutin) You completely missed my poiint -- top end defensive defensemen don't get the same $ as offensive defensemen.

If Gleason was a UFA, he'd be making $4MM easily. Maybe more.
Why are we stating the obvious here though? What do you think the point of UFA is? To get players for their value? If that's what you expect, and it pushes you away from july 1 then you'll never be able to plug in holes for your team. If that's the mentality you want than Riseborough wouldve been the perfect GM for this team. He rarely makes moves and is as conservative as they come.

When you enter july 1, it's an auction you are entering. It's a bidding war. It doesn't matter what player it is, you're more then likely going to end up overpaying by some if you're dealing with anything of some value. I say value be/c at the time a guy like Prospal didn't have any value, thus he was willing to take little money.

Tallinder and white will get raises, white more then Tallinder. If you think Tallinder is going to get a "significant" raise then you're mistaken. I'd sayhe's going to get around the 3 mill mark.

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05-21-2010, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Johnny Boychuk played with Jeff Finger and Brett Clark in the Avs minor league system. Both Finger and Clark signed new contracts worth $3.5 million when they were about to become group III UFA's. Finger played one NHL season and then signed a 4 year/$14 million deal with the Leafs. Clark signed a 3 year/$10.5 million extension with the Avs. Both players were basically journeymen but they capitalized on their improved into big contracts. They barely played in the NHL but somehow ended up with $3.5 million per. Both contracts ended up being bad contracts. The Clark contract finally ends this summer and Finger is ticketed for the AHL to finish out the remaining two seasons.

The Rangers should hang up the phone when Boychuk's agent calls on July 1.



http://www.nesn.com/2010/05/mark-rec...ee-agents.html

Hefty raise.
Finger is Finger. Clarke is Clarke, and Boychuk is Boychuk. 3 completely different people.

Only a fool would hang up the phone if a players agent calls them. You listen to what he has to say, you don't hang up the phone

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05-21-2010, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by hpNYR View Post
Why are we stating the obvious here though? What do you think the point of UFA is?
So why did you bring up examples of guys who got their contracts when they weren't UFA's? Of course the guys you listed didn't get as much money, they didn't have the leverage to do so!

Quote:
To get players for their value? If that's what you expect, and it pushes you away from july 1 then you'll never be able to plug in holes for your team. If that's the mentality you want than Riseborough wouldve been the perfect GM for this team. He rarely makes moves and is as conservative as they come.

When you enter july 1, it's an auction you are entering. It's a bidding war. It doesn't matter what player it is, you're more then likely going to end up overpaying by some if you're dealing with anything of some value. I say value be/c at the time a guy like Prospal didn't have any value, thus he was willing to take little money.
You say you're a Rangers fan and yet you say this despite what Sather has done in the past offseasons? I'm not saying to shun the UFA route completely, but you have to be smart and know when to back off before you overpay for someone. The aforementioned Jeff Finger is a great example of this, as is Wade Redden. And I don't know about you, but I'd rather give that 3 mil+ to a more proven guy like a Tallinder, Hamhuis, Mitchell, etc., rather then to a guy who has yet to play a full NHL season.

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Tallinder and white will get raises, white more then Tallinder. If you think Tallinder is going to get a "significant" raise then you're mistaken. I'd sayhe's going to get around the 3 mill mark.
The only thing that I think you would have on your side is that there are a lot of good defensive d-men on the market, but Tallinder is IMO one of the top 5 options. Personally, I think he gets a 4 year 16 mil type deal. He has his moments when he is bad, but otherwise he is the type of d-men NHL teams love.

BTW, I think you are putting way too much stock into Boychuk. I kept up on him when he was in Colorado's system (gotta support a fellow Ukrainian), and the thing that always seemed to hold him back and prevent him from making it full-time was his decision making and hockey sense. I have to wonder how much a guy like Chara is helping him. A dominant d-men of his caliber can mask a lot of deficiencies. Ask Marc-Andre Bergeron how he did after Pronger was taken away from him.

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05-21-2010, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by ocarina View Post
So why did you bring up examples of guys who got their contracts when they weren't UFA's? Of course the guys you listed didn't get as much money, they didn't have the leverage to do so!



You say you're a Rangers fan and yet you say this despite what Sather has done in the past offseasons? I'm not saying to shun the UFA route completely, but you have to be smart and know when to back off before you overpay for someone. The aforementioned Jeff Finger is a great example of this, as is Wade Redden. And I don't know about you, but I'd rather give that 3 mil+ to a more proven guy like a Tallinder, Hamhuis, Mitchell, etc., rather then to a guy who has yet to play a full NHL season.



The only thing that I think you would have on your side is that there are a lot of good defensive d-men on the market, but Tallinder is IMO one of the top 5 options. Personally, I think he gets a 4 year 16 mil type deal. He has his moments when he is bad, but otherwise he is the type of d-men NHL teams love.

BTW, I think you are putting way too much stock into Boychuk. I kept up on him when he was in Colorado's system (gotta support a fellow Ukrainian), and the thing that always seemed to hold him back and prevent him from making it full-time was his decision making and hockey sense. I have to wonder how much a guy like Chara is helping him. A dominant d-men of his caliber can mask a lot of deficiencies. Ask Marc-Andre Bergeron how he did after Pronger was taken away from him.
Considering the individual was stating that an NHL PROVEN DEFENSIVE D-MEN is worth 3.5-4 mill; I thought i'd chip in and remind him there are DEFENSIVE D-MEN who make less then 3.5-4 mill UFA leverage or not. His statement was generic.

Once again, if you tried reading my posts you'd see I no way have supported Boychuk for 3.5 mill. In fact, I don't think he gets 3 mill nevermind 3.5 mill. I guess we'll see. Again you're stating the obvious. You need to look at your budget and cap situation. If there is 1 team that can't afford overpaying, it's the Rangers. We are #3 in the league in terms of having the least amount of cap space. However, my point stands. In Free Agency come Jul 1, It's an auction and most individuals are overpayed. Again, if an agent calls you it's very foolish to hang up the phone before listening to what he/she has to say; especially a team who has room for alot of improvement.

As far as Chara making Boychuk better. Yes, Chara is a very good d-men. Yes he's an impact player. Yes , he may have helped Boychuk elevate his game. However, I'm weary of those claiming him to be more then that. He has his share of lackluster passes from his own zone. He has his share of being burned by quicker players.

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05-21-2010, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
I don't think Boychuk will get that much in free agency. There are a lot of proven dmen on the market this year.

Lidstrom
Niedermayer
Kubina
Gonchar
Blake
Martin
Corvo
Volchenkov
Seidenberg
Hamhuis
Leopold
Michalek

Granted, some of these players may retire, but you know Anaheim and Detroit will re-sign Nieds and Lidstrom if they don't retire.

How many teams are going to bid on Boychuk over one of these guys? Just being UFA isn't enough to get Boychuk 3+ mil. Seidenberg only got a 1 year/2.25 mil deal last offseason. Leopold only got 1 year/1.75 mil.

13 playoff games isn't enough of a sample size for Boychuk to get a large payday.
Great post. I agree 100%.

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05-21-2010, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by hpNYR View Post
Considering the individual was stating that an NHL PROVEN DEFENSIVE D-MEN is worth 3.5-4 mill; I thought i'd chip in and remind him there are DEFENSIVE D-MEN who make less then 3.5-4 mill UFA leverage or not. His statement was generic.

Once again, if you tried reading my posts you'd see I no way have supported Boychuk for 3.5 mill. In fact, I don't think he gets 3 mill nevermind 3.5 mill. I guess we'll see. Again you're stating the obvious. You need to look at your budget and cap situation. If there is 1 team that can't afford overpaying, it's the Rangers. We are #3 in the league in terms of having the least amount of cap space. However, my point stands. In Free Agency come Jul 1, It's an auction and most individuals are overpayed. Again, if an agent calls you it's very foolish to hang up the phone before listening to what he/she has to say; especially a team who has room for alot of improvement.

As far as Chara making Boychuk better. Yes, Chara is a very good d-men. Yes he's an impact player. Yes , he may have helped Boychuk elevate his game. However, I'm weary of those claiming him to be more then that. He has his share of lackluster passes from his own zone. He has his share of being burned by quicker players.
I apologize for assuming you wanted Boychuk at that price. But I think you are really overrating him. I mean, saying he is better then Girardi?

I don't understand why you brought up all those players in the first place. He said a proven defensive d-men is worth 3.5-4 mil, players who are RFA don't necessarily get what they are really worth.

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05-21-2010, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
You still use that site.

Capgeek is your friend son. Matt Wuest does a great job running that site. Breaks signings before they are announced.
nhlnumbers has nice features like average age. You can find youngest team, oldest team etc.

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05-21-2010, 08:21 PM
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I apologize for assuming you wanted Boychuk at that price. But I think you are really overrating him. I mean, saying he is better then Girardi?

I don't understand why you brought up all those players in the first place. He said a proven defensive d-men is worth 3.5-4 mil, players who are RFA don't necessarily get what they are really worth.
Ok, I can still go find players when I have the time and post a list of defensive d-men who were signed as UFA's.

One guy top of my head is Rotislav Klesla at 2.975.

Yeah, Boychuk will be better than Girardi IMO. Now back to the Sharks-Chi game.

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05-21-2010, 11:55 PM
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Ok, I can still go find players when I have the time and post a list of defensive d-men who were signed as UFA's.

One guy top of my head is Rotislav Klesla at 2.975.

Yeah, Boychuk will be better than Girardi IMO. Now back to the Sharks-Chi game.
A couple other guys I've thought of are Hal Gill and Karlis Skrastins. I'd consider both guys as solid defensive d-men.

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05-22-2010, 02:26 AM
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05-23-2010, 11:48 AM
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Boston Bruins defenceman Johnny Boychuk is in the catbirdís seat as an unrestricted free agent on July 1. Heís 26 and hasnít played 80 NHL games, just 71.

Boychuk averaged 26 minutes 10 seconds in 13 Bruins games as Zdeno Charaís partner. Heís very loyal to the Bruins, but he could get five times his current minimum NHL salary of $500,000 from some team on the open market.
Read more: http://www.edmontonjournal.com/sport...#ixzz0olunFRl7

Five times $500,000 will probably be the minimum if his agent plays this right.

The Rangers signed Scott Fraser in 1998 as a group 6 UFA. 3 years/$4 million. Fraser had a decent stretch with Edmonton and the Rangers jumped all over him. He was a bust.

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05-23-2010, 02:52 PM
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3 years at $1.7 each year.

2nd pair guy

Pair him as the bad cop with Gilroy or Del Zotto.

Don't go over $2 million as we don't want a Jeff Finger 2.0 here.

I'm still hoping Valatenko can come over and him and Boychuk would make this D much meaner.
If Gilroy is one of our 2nd pair defenseman next season, it's going to be a long one.

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05-23-2010, 02:53 PM
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The way free agency works there is NO way that you can get him to sign on the dotted line at 1.7 mill/year. He hasn't even reached his prime yet and he put up solid numbers last year. You are definitely talking 2.5-3 mil/yr to get him locked up, and it would probably need to be long term.
I doubt it'd be that long term considering down the road he has the potential to make even more per year, but I agree, it's gotta be a lot more $ amount; it doesn't matter what he was making last year.

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05-23-2010, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
I don't think Boychuk will get that much in free agency. There are a lot of proven dmen on the market this year.

Lidstrom
Niedermayer
Kubina
Gonchar
Blake
Martin
Corvo
Volchenkov
Seidenberg
Hamhuis
Leopold
Michalek

Granted, some of these players may retire, but you know Anaheim and Detroit will re-sign Nieds and Lidstrom if they don't retire.

How many teams are going to bid on Boychuk over one of these guys? Just being UFA isn't enough to get Boychuk 3+ mil. Seidenberg only got a 1 year/2.25 mil deal last offseason. Leopold only got 1 year/1.75 mil.

13 playoff games isn't enough of a sample size for Boychuk to get a large payday.
I'd say out of the defenseman you listed, only 6-8 of them actually hit free agency, and of them I don't know if I really say they're really anymore "proven" than Boychuk is.

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05-24-2010, 04:02 PM
  #75
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Read more: http://www.edmontonjournal.com/sport...#ixzz0olunFRl7

Five times $500,000 will probably be the minimum if his agent plays this right.

The Rangers signed Scott Fraser in 1998 as a group 6 UFA. 3 years/$4 million. Fraser had a decent stretch with Edmonton and the Rangers jumped all over him. He was a bust.
He's not getting 3-3.5 mill. Not with the pool of UFA d-men available.

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