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International Tournaments Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

What can the IIHF do to fix the World Championships of Hockey?

View Poll Results: What would you like to see happen to improve the significance of the WC's?
Move the tournament to after the NHL regular season. 11 11.22%
Move the Tournament to before the NHL regular season 18 18.37%
Have a World Championships every 4 years, alternating with the Olympics. 35 35.71%
Ask to see if the NHL and other leagues would allow a break for 2 weeks during the Regular Season 14 14.29%
Other 20 20.41%
Voters: 98. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-21-2010, 05:26 PM
  #51
ts
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Originally Posted by EbencoyE View Post
Why does it matter what names are on the back? It's the world championships, when the only name that matters is on the FRONT.

If some 3rd line scrub from the Swiss league dresses up for team Finland, he has become just as important as Teemu Selanne.

The WC is about development and national pride. It doesn't matter who is on the ice, as long as they are playing for their country and the benefit of themselves and/or the national program. (development)

The WC is not an all-star festival so I really don't get the obsession with people wanting to see the best players.
Good post

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05-21-2010, 05:32 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by mrmyheadhurts View Post
It's not a best on best competition so it will always be a fringe tournament. I think NHL players should stop going all together personally. I hope Canada continues to treat it as a development tournament.

If it were up to me, I would make it a young stars tournament (23 and under) and move it to start immediately following the Finals. I know I would be far more interested in watching that.
Canada should send whatever team they believe is appropriate. As will do every other nation as well. Let everybody decide on their own if they want to be a part of the party. If you accept the invitation, you just have to accept the dress-code.

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05-21-2010, 05:33 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by mrmyheadhurts View Post
It's not a best on best competition so it will always be a fringe tournament. I think NHL players should stop going all together personally. I hope Canada continues to treat it as a development tournament.

If it were up to me, I would make it a young stars tournament (23 and under) and move it to start immediately following the Finals. I know I would be far more interested in watching that.
So your answer to having a lack of high talent is to... restrict the talent pool even more...

I can't grasp this logic at all. It's also making me want to bash my head in with a hammer.

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05-21-2010, 06:17 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by EbencoyE View Post
So your answer to having a lack of high talent is to... restrict the talent pool even more...

I can't grasp this logic at all. It's also making me want to bash my head in with a hammer.
My point was, it's NEVER going to be a best on best tournament so why not embrace what it is? I don't believe having a lack of high end talent is the problem with the tournament anyways. It's the fact that it's poorly scheduled, happens every year and is clearly the ugly step child compared to the Olympics and World Cup.

It's not about restricting a talent pool, in fact, I would argue the hockey would be better because the pool would be more focused on youth and would have players really pushing to prove themselves for real international competitions. If the NHL is going to treat the tournament as a developmental tournament then why not become one? Otherwise it will be these same tired threads every year and the World Championships will still have no impact on the hockey landscape.

I'm sorry you can't understand my logic. Perhaps a hammer would be the best course of action!

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05-21-2010, 06:23 PM
  #55
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So you make it another wjc?

This will NEVER fly in Europe, so you just switch from mostly European to mostly NA fans. I don't get how this would make the product any better.

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05-21-2010, 06:27 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmyheadhurts View Post
My point was, it's NEVER going to be a best on best tournament so why not embrace what it is? I don't believe having a lack of high end talent is the problem with the tournament anyways. It's the fact that it's poorly scheduled, happens every year and is clearly the ugly step child compared to the Olympics and World Cup.

It's not about restricting a talent pool, in fact, I would argue the hockey would be better because the pool would be more focused on youth and would have players really pushing to prove themselves for real international competitions. If the NHL is going to treat the tournament as a developmental tournament then why not become one? Otherwise it will be these same tired threads every year and the World Championships will still have no impact on the hockey landscape.

I'm sorry you can't understand my logic. Perhaps a hammer would be the best course of action!
The NHL doesn't treat it as a development tournament, only Canada does that. And I may be biased as a Canadian but I think thats fine for two main reason, one or overall depth of talent, two all our players lack experience playing on the big ice.

Though I full agree that they shouldn't be trying to (and I'm not sure if they even are) put it on par with the Olympic tournament.

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05-21-2010, 06:33 PM
  #57
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I like a yearly developmental championship for major nations but they should move it to a time when there's no hockey, 'cause I'd probably watch it then. It's a good testing ground for international teams and actually serves a good purpose- even if it isn't super popular in Canada. Younger players see their future competition while nations that can't compete as well in the Olympics have the opportunity to leap-frog stronger nations because they send younger or more players on par with the high-end skill level available on those teams.

However, I think a World Cup of Hockey should be held every 3-4 years during the summer. There's no hockey then and everyone misses hockey. It'd be great to chill on the patio with a beer and stream a fantastic tournament on the lappy- something you can never do during the regular season cause it's too damn cold.

The NHL can put up ads and use it as a marketing tool to hype players for the coming years, while the tournament itself showcases the best talent nations have to offer. It also gives NHL teams a chance to look at players who haven't cracked line-ups but definitely have some potential. The actual tournament would be set up in pools, balanced with top teams and lower-end teams. They'd play a two-round round robin (games on off-days) to eliminate bottom performing teams, and then in true hockey fashion play a 5/7-game series until we get a World Cup winner.

It's at best a pipe-dream (realistically impossible) but a guy can still dream. Too much chance of injury and too little profit in it for the NHL, and some people have this pathological opposition to hockey in the summer. One day maybe EA will let you customize a tournament in the NHL series and then I can make it .

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05-21-2010, 06:56 PM
  #58
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The WC's are just a european tournament. North American teams don't care because their players are still playing in the real tournament that actually matters (Stanley Cup). The tournament will not mean a thing to anyone in North America when they know the vast majority of their team's rosters are basically glorified AHL'rs and somehow supposed to represent the best they can send..

If the Euro's actually cared about world competition they'd want to move the tourny to a time that doesnt conflict with the NHL playoffs. And if they don't they're totally content with going against our AHL chumps and thinking they beat something worthwhile. I think these last olympics showed what kind of hockey the North American's can play when they actually put forth the kinds of teams they are capable of.

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05-21-2010, 07:01 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooch View Post
The WC's are just a european tournament. North American teams don't care because their players are still playing in the real tournament that actually matters (Stanley Cup). The tournament will not mean a thing to anyone in North America when they know the vast majority of their team's rosters are basically glorified AHL'rs and somehow supposed to represent the best they can send..

If the Euro's actually cared about world competition they'd want to move the tourny to a time that doesnt conflict with the NHL playoffs. And if they don't they're totally content with going against our AHL chumps and thinking they beat something worthwhile. I think these last olympics showed what kind of hockey the North American's can play when they actually put forth the kinds of teams they are capable of.

As did Turin and Nagano
Oh and these glorified AHL'ers you may find at the Spengler Cup for Team Canada but if you actually look at the rosters you will see mostly NHL regulares for Canda & USA in the last years. Many young guns, sure, in case of the USA many 3rd/4th liners, but still NHL regulares.

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05-21-2010, 07:07 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Gooch View Post
.... North American teams don't care because their players are still playing in the real tournament that actually matters (Stanley Cup)...

If the Euro's actually cared about world competition they'd want to move the tourny to a time that doesnt conflict with the NHL playoffs. And if they don't they're totally content with going against our AHL chumps and thinking they beat something worthwhile. I think these last olympics showed what kind of hockey the North American's can play when they actually put forth the kinds of teams they are capable of.
So why do you think the Stanley Cup is a tournament that actually matters? Or matters more than anything else?

The Vancouver Olympics were just one moment in time. Go and check the outcome over the last twenty years my friend.

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05-21-2010, 07:24 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by ts View Post
So you make it another wjc?

This will NEVER fly in Europe, so you just switch from mostly European to mostly NA fans. I don't get how this would make the product any better.
Oh, I don't agree that it would be just another World Jr. Look at the talent around the world that is 23/24 and younger. The tournament would still be dominated by pros but it fills the gap nicely between the Jrs and the Olympics/World Cup. I think Europe would still enjoy star players like Crosby, Toews, Kane, Backstrom and up and comers like Tavares, Eberle, Duchane and Myers to name a very few.


To be honest, it sounds like Europe is going to complain about anything short of an annual best on best competition, which will never happen. The IIHF and fans in Europe should be grateful that the NHL GMs let them play in this meaningless tournament to begin with, which is why I think that recent article rubbed a lot of people the wrong way.

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05-21-2010, 07:33 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmyheadhurts View Post
Oh, I don't agree that it would be just another World Jr. Look at the talent around the world that is 23/24 and younger. The tournament would still be dominated by pros but it fills the gap nicely between the Jrs and the Olympics/World Cup. I think Europe would still enjoy star players like Crosby, Toews, Kane, Backstrom and up and comers like Tavares, Eberle, Duchane and Myers to name a very few.


To be honest, it sounds like Europe is going to complain about anything short of an annual best on best competition, which will never happen. The IIHF and fans in Europe should be grateful that the NHL GMs let them play in this meaningless tournament to begin with, which is why I think that recent article rubbed a lot of people the wrong way.
Um, the most fans that complain about c-,d- or whatever teams are from NA, not Europe. Swedish and Czech fans sometimes mentonis this as well but mostly when someone claims how it's clear that Canada lost because it's only their [insert a letter >a her] team.

One thing you have to notice about a under 23/24 championship: smaller countries often lack the depth to field competitve teams if you limit the player pool, I think there wouldn't be as many upset as there were in the last years, meaning less attention from non-hockeyfans, at least in the short run.

For example for Germany, our d looks ok, but on offense we would lose the major part of the actual team and our current NHL'ers.

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05-21-2010, 07:37 PM
  #63
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The best solution would be one that is impossible.

Have the NHL move the schedule up to start in line with the European leagues, that is, in September.

Everyone already wants the NHL to start early, as awarding the Stanley Cup in June is rather stupid.

That extra month would free up most (probably not all) NHLers for the tournament, and everyone wins.

Of course, this would never happen, but one can dream.


So just keep it as is. Players who want to play or are available go, those who don't want to or can't don't go. The tournament still goes on, and most of the world will be happy.

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05-21-2010, 07:58 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by ts View Post
Um, the most fans that complain about c-,d- or whatever teams are from NA, not Europe. Swedish and Czech fans sometimes mentonis this as well but mostly when someone claims how it's clear that Canada lost because it's only their [insert a letter >a her] team.

One thing you have to notice about a under 23/24 championship: smaller countries often lack the depth to field competitve teams if you limit the player pool, I think there wouldn't be as many upset as there were in the last years, meaning less attention from non-hockeyfans, at least in the short run.

For example for Germany, our d looks ok, but on offense we would lose the major part of the actual team and our current NHL'ers.
The only reasons there are upsets at the WC is because countries who do have large contingents of NHL players aren't sending their best players. Your argument makes it sound like you are glad that the big countries are sending inferior teams because it means that the lesser hockey nations have a chance. That's a weird positive to me. It's artificial leveling of the playing field and it's the reason North America and the majority of it's players simply don't care about the tournament.

For the record, I never really cared about the WC until I read that stupid article by Szymon Szemberg. If I were a GM or owner of an NHL team I would be so pissed off. They are kind enough to let players that they sink millions, upon millions of dollars into, risking injury mind you, to participate in a tournament that everyone knows is meaningless. A yearly best on best tournament is simply unrealistic and would probably cost the NHL dearly.

If Euro fans are happy with the tournament the way it is, then why are they complaining about players from the NHL not fully participating?

I think it's great that Europe gets a tournament to excite the fan base but don't pretend it's an important tournament on the hockey landscape as a whole. Enjoy it for what it is or make changes to make it relevant.

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05-21-2010, 08:03 PM
  #65
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i for one, enjoy it as it is. mainly because of the absence of some NHLers you get to see players on the possible brink of a higher level (i.e this year Omark, Harju) get to participate that normally would never have a chance.

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05-21-2010, 08:15 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by mrmyheadhurts View Post
If Euro fans are happy with the tournament the way it is, then why are they complaining about players from the NHL not fully participating?
Most really aren't.

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05-21-2010, 08:17 PM
  #67
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Most really aren't.
You're probably right. I shouldn't assume the actual fans share the same opinion as the IIHF does but that was my impression from the reaction about the article.

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05-21-2010, 08:25 PM
  #68
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The IIHF consider themselves and rightfully the world's governing body of hockey. From their perspective national championships should be over by the day the tournament starts. This is the case in all but two member nations.
The problem is that isn't just any 2 nations, it is the biggest 2 nations as far as the sport goes. Going by the number of registered players (which one can translate into fans of the sport) Canada and US are by far the biggest two hockey nations. I believe they both individually produce more registered players than all of Europe. By holding the tournament when it does basically marginalizes it in NA and as a result the IIHF is probably leaving money at the table.

The solution is easy, move the tournament to September before the start of the seasons. With it before the season you are more likely to get top players. That probably means more money out for TV rights out of Canada, and probably actually getting the tournament on a higher channel than NBC's olympic sports channel in the states as more tv slots are available in September. It also allows for the tournament to be brought to NA more often as arenas will be available. Thus the tournament can get more promotion over building the profile and thus more money for the IIHF. Building the tournament more globally outside of Europe should be the IIHF's goal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mexicohockey View Post
Unfortunately, Canada will pull out of the Olympics as well the IOC bases its entry policy on the IIHF world rankings....
No they won't. If the US and Canada both pulled out of the World Championships they would still probably automatically make it in the Olympics because of pressure from the IOC for the IIHF to include them. If those countries had to qualify and weren't guaranteed entry that would make the NHL's decision to not release the players very easy. Plus as hockey is one of the showcase events the IOC won't want the hockey tournament margalized with the absent of the US (whose TV money basically bankrolls the IOC) and Canada (the historic top power of the sport). And the IIHF isn't FIFA where they don't need the IOC.

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05-21-2010, 08:35 PM
  #69
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GMs won't take too kindly to the thought of a possible injury prior to the NHL season.

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05-21-2010, 08:42 PM
  #70
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Have this tournament in the summer ever 4 years like the old Canada / World Cups. Have it in a non-olympic year so that the Olympics and World cup are spread out by 2 years at least.

Having this tournament every year and during the NHL playoffs doesn't appeal to North American fans as they are focussed on the NHL playoffs. If the IIHF wants to make this tournament relevant then just take over the old World Cup tournament and call it a IIHF event.

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05-21-2010, 08:53 PM
  #71
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Have this tournament in the summer ever 4 years like the old Canada / World Cups. Have it in a non-olympic year so that the Olympics and World cup are spread out by 2 years at least.

Having this tournament every year and during the NHL playoffs doesn't appeal to North American fans as they are focussed on the NHL playoffs. If the IIHF wants to make this tournament relevant then just take over the old World Cup tournament and call it a IIHF event.
Again, they need the tournament every year because the lower divisions also have tournaments every year. You stop doing that then the lower countries don't get any chance to play in real tournaments, and that is not good for the development of hockey worldwide.

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05-22-2010, 12:02 AM
  #72
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I've always assumed from a European's view that the tournament is fine as it is and they are extremely happy with it. It is designed for the European hockey leagues.

The Tournament will never be important to most North Americans hockey fans and even if the NHL finished earlier players still would refuse to go. However you would like to think players might accept the offer more.

I still think the probleam is the NHL and not this tournament. The NHL can cut two weeks off exhibition/pre season and it might make some difference.

The problem is not the tournmant but the players. Russia has a great team because it is important to them. This is somewhat true for most European hockey nations. But the fault is with Canadian and American players who just don't care as much.

Hockey Canada could help itself out by placing requirements for players to attended at least one of these tournaments or at least give a player the inside track for the Olympics.

I personally enjoy the World Championships.

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05-22-2010, 12:43 AM
  #73
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The tournament needs to be put back as far as possible. Right now its not only competing with the Stanley Cup playoffs but its also competing with the Memorial Cup.

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05-22-2010, 12:52 AM
  #74
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The tournament needs to be put back as far as possible. Right now its not only competing with the Stanley Cup playoffs but its also competing with the Memorial Cup.
You can be sure that absolutely no one connected to the World Championships cares in the slightest about that. Nor does anyone who doesn't live in a city in Canada of under a hundred thousand people.

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05-22-2010, 01:55 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by ozzie View Post
I've always assumed from a European's view that the tournament is fine as it is and they are extremely happy with it. It is designed for the European hockey leagues.

The Tournament will never be important to most North Americans hockey fans and even if the NHL finished earlier players still would refuse to go. However you would like to think players might accept the offer more.

I still think the probleam is the NHL and not this tournament. The NHL can cut two weeks off exhibition/pre season and it might make some difference.

The problem is not the tournmant but the players. Russia has a great team because it is important to them. This is somewhat true for most European hockey nations. But the fault is with Canadian and American players who just don't care as much.

Hockey Canada could help itself out by placing requirements for players to attended at least one of these tournaments or at least give a player the inside track for the Olympics.

I personally enjoy the World Championships.
Again, why call out Canada? Do we not send competent teams that on paper at least is usually tops in the tournament? This team was a dud, but in the five years before that we've finished 2-4-1-2-2. Sure we don't send the best team possible, but we certainly send good teams.

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