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Old
05-22-2010, 07:45 PM
  #176
seanlinden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eldiablo17 View Post
The problem is that these proposals always trade him to either a) good teams with no need for him or b) teams giving you their better center and sending him back in a package as a replacement.

He may be worth a 3rd round pick at the deadline to somebody desperate but a good amount of teams wouldn't pick him up on waivers if he hit it today.
Well most of these proposals are idiotic.... but if you're a team looking to clear cap... a centre-for-grabo downgrade can make sense (obviously not for Chicago).

Despite the fact that there's a lot of teams who would pass on waivers, he's easily worth a 2nd in the offseason to the teams that need him a #2 centre.

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Old
05-22-2010, 08:06 PM
  #177
eldiablo17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebluemachine View Post
he does not reflect it as you are saying he is so much better.
I can see it now, response to Kesler for Grabovski


5
23
16
37
59
75


Kesler is really .53 ppg over all.

grabs is .56 ppg

not much different any more is it?

i'll keep the guy that has had a better start in his first 2 full seasons and has played with lesser wingers for the most part.

toronto can either expect grabs will remain the same (if we keep him) or get better (which is more likely as toronto gets better as a whole) and not make this lateral move.

adding two very good prospects on top of it all to downgrade .03 ppg makes this deal absolutely horrible for toronto especially when Kesler has had a lot more time and better wingers to prove otherwise.

big no from toronto. we'll keep our similar type center man and our very good prospects thank you.

Man that was fun

Now lets imagine thebluemachine was a Blues fan

Kessel for Boyes

29
37
60
55

Kessel is really .62 ppg over all.

Boyes is .71 ppg

That is a huge difference

i'll keep the guy that has had a better start in his first 2 full seasons and has played with lesser wingers for the most part.

St Louis can either expect Boyes will remain the same (if we keep him) or get better (which is more likely as St Louis gets better as a whole) and not make this lateral move.

adding two very good prospects on top of it all to downgrade by almost 0.1 PPG makes this deal absolutely horrible for St Louis especially when Kessel has had a lot more time and better centers to prove otherwise.

big no from St Louis. we'll keep our similar type winger and our very good prospects thank you.

Ahhh, thats fun

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Old
05-22-2010, 08:32 PM
  #178
Hawksfan2828
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Well if I was Toronto I would seriously consider a rebuild. I dont know why the hell he took Phaneuf... Hes gonna be a Redden in a year or two.

If I'm bowman how about this...

Campbell, Beach, Versteeg and a 2010 1st round pick for Phaneuf and Kadri?

Lets do it...

Anyone interested in a 2011 1st and Phaneuf for your crap?

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Old
05-22-2010, 08:38 PM
  #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawksfan2828 View Post
Well if I was Toronto I would seriously consider a rebuild. I dont know why the hell he took Phaneuf... Hes gonna be a Redden in a year or two.

If I'm bowman how about this...

Campbell, Beach, Versteeg and a 2010 1st round pick for Phaneuf and Kadri?

Lets do it...

Anyone interested in a 2011 1st and Phaneuf for your crap?
WTF?

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Old
05-22-2010, 08:50 PM
  #180
Hawksfan2828
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Originally Posted by Sexy Julien View Post
WTF?
In a hockey market like Toronto you would have to be ******** to refuse that deal.

I would call that progress...

With a couple of depth signings Toronto is a playoff team with something solid to build on.

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Old
05-22-2010, 09:01 PM
  #181
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Hawks pass on Phanoof. THEE most over rated player in the NHL.

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Old
05-22-2010, 09:43 PM
  #182
Lahey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawksfan2828 View Post
In a hockey market like Toronto you would have to be ******** to refuse that deal.

I would call that progress...

With a couple of depth signings Toronto is a playoff team with something solid to build on.
Buddy, problem is.. Phaneuf and Kadri are NOT going to be traded.. Phaneuf will regain some of his form next year, and if far far far away from a Redden... Hahaha.


Oh and Brevard.. Please stop posting.

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Old
05-22-2010, 10:16 PM
  #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawksfan2828 View Post
Well if I was Toronto I would seriously consider a rebuild. I dont know why the hell he took Phaneuf... Hes gonna be a Redden in a year or two.

If I'm bowman how about this...

Campbell, Beach, Versteeg and a 2010 1st round pick for Phaneuf and Kadri?

Lets do it...

Anyone interested in a 2011 1st and Phaneuf for your crap?
No

Beach is going to be better then Kadri no doubt imo (I called Kadri a bust before the draft)

Phanuef is over rated and over paid

He sucks

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Old
05-22-2010, 10:18 PM
  #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawksfan12 View Post
No

Beach is going to be better then Kadri no doubt imo (I called Kadri a bust before the draft)

Phanuef is over rated and over paid

He sucks
Haha. Kadri has only played 1 NHL game.. Hard to call him a bust yet.. In fact.. Beach is more of a "bust" right now (even though he isnt and I think he'll be something special..)


Campbell sucks and is over rated and WAYYY overpaid..

I can play this game too.

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Old
05-22-2010, 11:55 PM
  #185
embracedbias
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Originally Posted by brevard View Post
Aahhh, There we go. So that is 5 and i am guessing we should all add Stempniak, Ponikarovski and Stajan to that list too right? So it you really had 8 or 9 forwards better and 5 d-men better than Seabrook and Toskala only started 25 games why in the world does your team suck?
The teachers pension fund has to love having uneducated guys like you as fans of the team. If you had 8 guys worthy of such praise your team would have made the playoffs.

I keep seeing the same thing from you when discussing players. It's always goals and PPG. Wins and losses is how they determine champions. any line scoring a goal per game while giving up 1.1 or 1.2 is destined to fail. That is pretty much how the entire Leaf team plays.
Madden Buff and Versteeg doing the job while foregoing stats against other teams top lines permitted Kane, Toews, Sharp and Hossa to not have to.
WOW What do you know. A good coach using good players in a solid system to maximize winning. I guess I know why you wouldn't understand.
What the hell is your deal?

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Old
05-23-2010, 12:33 AM
  #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eldiablo17 View Post
I can see it now, response to Kesler for Grabovski


5
23
16
37
59
75


Kesler is really .53 ppg over all.

grabs is .56 ppg

not much different any more is it?

i'll keep the guy that has had a better start in his first 2 full seasons and has played with lesser wingers for the most part.

toronto can either expect grabs will remain the same (if we keep him) or get better (which is more likely as toronto gets better as a whole) and not make this lateral move.

adding two very good prospects on top of it all to downgrade .03 ppg makes this deal absolutely horrible for toronto especially when Kesler has had a lot more time and better wingers to prove otherwise.

big no from toronto. we'll keep our similar type center man and our very good prospects thank you.

Man that was fun

Now lets imagine thebluemachine was a Blues fan

Kessel for Boyes

29
37
60
55

Kessel is really .62 ppg over all.

Boyes is .71 ppg

That is a huge difference

i'll keep the guy that has had a better start in his first 2 full seasons and has played with lesser wingers for the most part.

St Louis can either expect Boyes will remain the same (if we keep him) or get better (which is more likely as St Louis gets better as a whole) and not make this lateral move.

adding two very good prospects on top of it all to downgrade by almost 0.1 PPG makes this deal absolutely horrible for St Louis especially when Kessel has had a lot more time and better centers to prove otherwise.

big no from St Louis. we'll keep our similar type winger and our very good prospects thank you.

Ahhh, thats fun
perfect keep boyes, we ran him out of town already.

kessel can stay.

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Old
05-23-2010, 12:54 AM
  #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebluemachine View Post
he does not reflect it as you are saying he is so much better.
Again Grabovski has negative value to numerous teams in the league, while Weiss is a valuable asset to pretty much every team in the league, ask any GM they would take Weiss over Grabovksi every day of the week.

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Old
05-23-2010, 01:05 AM
  #188
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Originally Posted by King Canuck View Post
Again Grabovski has negative value to numerous teams in the league, while Weiss is a valuable asset to pretty much every team in the league, ask any GM they would take Weiss over Grabovksi every day of the week.
i was not talking about every other team. to toronto he is useless and more so if we have to give up two good prospects on top of it.

toronto has,

grabs - has just as much upside in ppg.

bozak - has just as high of a ceiling if not more.

kadri - has just as high of a ceiling if not miles better.


if toronto makes a move for a center it will not be for a guy who took over 5 years to hit a whole 60 points.

end of story.

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Old
05-23-2010, 01:09 AM
  #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebluemachine View Post
i was not talking about every other team. to toronto he is useless and more so if we have to give up two good prospects on top of it.

toronto has,

grabs - has just as much upside in ppg.

bozak - has just as high of a ceiling if not more.

kadri - has just as high of a ceiling if not miles better.


if toronto makes a move for a center it will not be for a guy who took over 5 years to hit a whole 60 points.

end of story.
Weiss is better then Kadri, Bozak and Grabovski right now, stop being such a homer.

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Old
05-23-2010, 01:45 AM
  #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Canuck View Post
Weiss is better then Kadri, Bozak and Grabovski right now, stop being such a homer.
but why trade for him when grabs is just as good ppg wise and let bozak/kadri develop. and we get to keep our two very good prospects.

it is a safe bet that weiss has pretty much hit his ceiling and not worth it to the leafs, he has had well over 5 years to prove otherwise.

there is no more value in him compared to grabs for the leafs right now.

end of story.

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Old
05-23-2010, 01:52 AM
  #191
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Please go make a poll Weiss vs Grabovksi if you think Grabo's better, for the millionth time PPG isn't everything.

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Old
05-23-2010, 02:12 AM
  #192
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Originally Posted by King Canuck View Post
Please go make a poll Weiss vs Grabovksi if you think Grabo's better, for the millionth time PPG isn't everything.
who said it was?

i was pointing out toronto does not need weiss with bozak, kadri and grabs down the middle.

grabs is only off by .03 ppg and kadri or bozak should suffice in the near future to make up for what ever else grabo cannot. both ppg and grit/defensive play or what ever else weiss seems to be better at.

he is not a major upgrade to lose out on two good prospects for.

is it that hard to understand?

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Old
05-23-2010, 02:21 AM
  #193
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^^^

What are you talking about? what two prospects? :facepalm

Anyway, Grabovski has a better PPG then Kesler, that means he's better right?

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Old
05-23-2010, 05:13 AM
  #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebluemachine View Post
grabs is as valuable as weiss is in florida and weiss plays on the 1st line over there.

that's not negative value.

he actually gets paid properly. maybe a little too much but not by that much at all.
I would like Weiss in Chicago. I would HATE Grabo in Chicago
Weiss >>> Grabo



and I add to that post that Byfuglien is a 3rd Liner in TO, at best





and some TO Fans ask why most people here think that they overrate their Players

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Old
05-23-2010, 06:35 AM
  #195
PlietscherDassel
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I don't like how some people here write about Grabo.
He is not a 1st line star player but he is a very decent 2nd line player and i think is contract is reasonable for his (potential) production level
(i think he will be 60 points/20-30 goals player).
Last season was his FIRST full NHL season and he scored 20 goals/48 points. I think this is not that bad.
Now the important part.
This season was a very unlucky one for him.
At the beginning of the season the whole team didn't play very well. To be honest... i think that Grabo was one of the better players when he started into the season (improved his defensive game and his face-off production compared to last season).
Then things started to improve in Toronto but right when that happened Grabo got injured. After his injury the Leafs season high was already over again. Furthermore he would have needed a few more games to really bounce back after his injury plus its not surprising that he didn't show much chemistry in his first games after his injury because almost our entire offensive chore changed around the time he was injured.
As mentioned above the season went very unlucky for Grabo because during the time period in which most of the Leaf players had their bright moments he was injured.
And to state that he is a bust, over payed and a salary dump because of the last season is just wrong.
I totally agree that he is not as good as (for example) Stephen Weiss... but that doesn't imply that he has to be a bad over payed player.

Btw i agree that the proposal doesn't make sense (cap wise) for the Hawks and the Leafs can only trade Grabo if Burke can get a center via another trade or free agency (can't go into next season with just Bozak and Kadri as our top6 centers).

Another thing....yes... there are some Leafs fans that are huge homers. But to be honest there are Hawks fans like that as well.
So if you don't have the same opinion as some Leafs fan you guys could just argue in a reasonable way and not just post "this shows again that every Leafs fan is dumb homer"
And to write that Grabo is completely worthless is exactly as dumb as to write that he is worth a 1st round pick.

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Old
05-23-2010, 08:21 AM
  #196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebluemachine View Post
i was not talking about every other team. to toronto he is useless and more so if we have to give up two good prospects on top of it.

toronto has,

grabs - has just as much upside in ppg.

bozak - has just as high of a ceiling if not more.

kadri - has just as high of a ceiling if not miles better.


if toronto makes a move for a center it will not be for a guy who took over 5 years to hit a whole 60 points.
end of story.


yet that whole 60 points would have been the top scorer in TO. Give the guy some credit.

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