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05-23-2010, 06:28 AM
  #1
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Remaking the top 6

Looking at our top 6 forwards its easy to make some observations

1. Gomez's contract is an albatross and the team will deal with it for as long as possible. only 4 more seasons to go
2. AK has zero hockey sense and it's too frustrating to watch him legit play twenty games a season and coast the rest he's basically been a non factor in the playoffs,
3. Gionta and Cammy, The Best part of our top 6 and both can be effective 30-40 goal scorers
4. Plekanac, I do not want to resign unless its a sign and trade, when me and my friends were at the bar we counted five times where pleks was standing out at the Hash marks instead of in front of the net. We won't go deep in the playoffs with him.
5. Pouliot needs to put on about 20-25 more pounds to be effective everyone sees the talent but even if he can become a complementary top 6 forward who hits he'll be a great fit. 6'3 199 pounds? I mean I can push that lanky kid around.

Now the two glaring problems IMO are Ak and Pleks, 1. Pleks is a burden on the roster IMO and will also want about 4-6mil per season and 2. AK has not lived up to expectations and as every one says zero hockey sense, I say sign and trade pleks and the tit brothers and try to get a good consistent top 6 forward with some size, Leave patches down in the A to get some confidence and some weight. Tell pouliot his goal is to come back weighing 220, use Pleks an AK to help replenish the picks we've traded away, Promote trotter/desharnais and use the six mil free in cap space to sign a decent top 6? Or if Gauthier is a riverboat gambler type trade one of Price/Halak to get a young top 6 forward

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05-23-2010, 06:48 AM
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Without Pleks we don't even make the playoffs and gomez is barely a 2nd line centre. It's not like we have a pile of options. Really starting to miss Koivu and the flexibilty he would have brought to our cap.

I say give AKost one more season, if he doesnt solidify his position get rid of him. I am getting very tired of him and his brother at this point. If Pleks is cheap we should resign him, if he plays above his contract but shows the same issues move him in a couple seasons. Our big problem is defense, hopefully we can get a better player to replace hamrlik for less money and maybe trade spacek for cap relief.

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05-23-2010, 08:45 AM
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You do know what we just did in the playoffs right? honestly...

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05-23-2010, 08:45 AM
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Calling up Desharnais or Trotter in all likelihood will not fix the problems with the Top 6 you are eluding to. Both are small (in Desharnais's case, VERY small). Have you ever watched Trotter play? He isn't exactly a beacon for physical play and sacrificing the body in order to get the job done, he is an All-star AHL player that plays an effective perimeter game... Can he translate that to the NHL? It's possible... He is going to need work though, he will need to be mentored by a guy like Cammalleri if he is going to improve at the next level. Desharnais is just simply way too small to be in *our* Top 6.

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05-23-2010, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACCIDENT View Post
Looking at our top 6 forwards its easy to make some observations

1. Gomez's contract is an albatross and the team will deal with it for as long as possible. only 4 more seasons to go
2. AK has zero hockey sense and it's too frustrating to watch him legit play twenty games a season and coast the rest he's basically been a non factor in the playoffs,
3. Gionta and Cammy, The Best part of our top 6 and both can be effective 30-40 goal scorers
4. Plekanac, I do not want to resign unless its a sign and trade, when me and my friends were at the bar we counted five times where pleks was standing out at the Hash marks instead of in front of the net. We won't go deep in the playoffs with him.
5. Pouliot needs to put on about 20-25 more pounds to be effective everyone sees the talent but even if he can become a complementary top 6 forward who hits he'll be a great fit. 6'3 199 pounds? I mean I can push that lanky kid around.

Now the two glaring problems IMO are Ak and Pleks, 1. Pleks is a burden on the roster IMO and will also want about 4-6mil per season and 2. AK has not lived up to expectations and as every one says zero hockey sense, I say sign and trade pleks and the tit brothers and try to get a good consistent top 6 forward with some size, Leave patches down in the A to get some confidence and some weight. Tell pouliot his goal is to come back weighing 220, use Pleks an AK to help replenish the picks we've traded away, Promote trotter/desharnais and use the six mil free in cap space to sign a decent top 6? Or if Gauthier is a riverboat gambler type trade one of Price/Halak to get a young top 6 forward
The bolded part is one of my pet peeves, why do so many posters assume you can sign a UFA only to turn around and ship him somewhere else for assets? Why would the player agree to this? What kind of blacklist do you think it'll put the team on for the coming years? This is not a video game.

Aside from that, I don't think there's that much tweaking to be done. There's nobody to replace Plekanec if you don't resign him and nobody will take on Gomez's contract. Kostitsyn has very little value. Maybe you try to pry a good asset away from a team with financial difficulties (always thought Sharp was a perfect fit for this team) but then again, we're not doing too well on that front either so...

Also, people forget this is the first year for Pouliot to see his offensive responsibilities increase so much. He hit a wall mentally and hasn't been able to get back on track, let's not dismiss him as some kind of failed experiment right away, and this has nothing to do with his weight. It's all part of the learning curve of a young player.


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05-23-2010, 08:47 AM
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Cammalleri-X-X
X-X-Gionta

AK, Pouliot, Plekanec, Gomez gone.

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05-23-2010, 08:53 AM
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This is a ridiculous thread... One of the main reasons why this team has done some incredible things this year is because of the CHEMISTRY. On the ice and in the locker room. Obviously Gomez is a big part of that. Pleks and Akost maybe not so much, but unless we can sign a better center and trade for another big top winger, why trade them/not resign them?

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05-23-2010, 08:58 AM
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We are in conference finals and people wants to change 4 of the top 6 forwards ? Ridiculous

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05-23-2010, 08:59 AM
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Pouliot is an ectomorph... without steroids he probably can't gain mass.

So strange what happened to his game.

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05-23-2010, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurel Joliat View Post
We are in conference finals and people wants to change 4 of the top 6 forwards ? Ridiculous
I would definitely toss Andei K to the wolves... I'm tired of guys who don't bring it. Odd that the only guys in the Top 6 that bring it all the time are Cammy/Gionta, and to a lesser extent Gomez... Good old North American boys.

As for Pouliot, that boy's problem is between the ears, not on the ice.

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05-23-2010, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Aurel Joliat View Post
We are in conference finals and people wants to change 4 of the top 6 forwards ? Ridiculous
2 of those top six are scoring. You realize that our being in the conference finals is because we pulled some pretty big upsets....and they were called pretty big upsets for a reason. We didn't dominate in those series and we managed to eek them both to game 7s. I am proud of what they have acheived, but if this ends this series I do not see us pulling this off next year with the same guys.

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05-23-2010, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citylife View Post
Pouliot is an ectomorph... without steroids he probably can't gain mass.

So strange what happened to his game.
Seriously?

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05-23-2010, 09:44 AM
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Seriously?
No, not seriously. Although I doubt he can get 20-25 lbs - that's a lot for a guy his age. 5-10 lbs seems more realistic.

Gomez-Gionta-Cammalleri are here for a long time.

Plekanec, I'm all for replacing him with a better player, but here's an idea: WHY DON'T WE FIRST FIND THAT BETTER PLAYER, since it's by far the difficult part?

Pouliot is a keeper, of all our young players (aside from Subban) he's by far the most talented. He has shown flashes of brillance and ability to dominate shifts in a way that a guy like Andrei never shown. I couldn't care less about his playoff production, this guy is exactly the kind you want to give a chance in your top-6 because he's very cheap and could potentially produce a lot. In my book he's definitively a keeper for now.

Andrei, I'm all for upgrading him, but again, let's first find a better player who will cost as much or less... and good luck with that.

In practice, I don't expect a lot of changes for next year team. It's always easy to ask for better, but the habs are a well rounded team with not a lot of obvious holes. The only thing we are still really lacking is a big body who's talented enough play on the top-6 and also fast enough to play with our core... those players aren't common. In fact, Pouliot pretty much fits the bill.

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05-23-2010, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Goldthorpe View Post
No, not seriously. Although I doubt he can get 20-25 lbs - that's a lot for a guy his age. 5-10 lbs seems more realistic.

Gomez-Gionta-Cammalleri are here for a long time.

Plekanec, I'm all for replacing him with a better player, but here's an idea: WHY DON'T WE FIRST FIND THAT BETTER PLAYER, since it's by far the difficult part?

Pouliot is a keeper, of all our young players (aside from Subban) he's by far the most talented. He has shown flashes of brillance and ability to dominate shifts in a way that a guy like Andrei never shown. I couldn't care less about his playoff production, this guy is exactly the kind you want to give a chance in your top-6 because he's very cheap and could potentially produce a lot. In my book he's definitively a keeper for now.

Andrei, I'm all for upgrading him, but again, let's first find a better player who will cost as much or less... and good luck with that.

In practice, I don't expect a lot of changes for next year team. It's always easy to ask for better, but the habs are a well rounded team with not a lot of obvious holes. The only thing we are still really lacking is a big body who's talented enough play on the top-6 and also fast enough to play with our core... those players aren't common. In fact, Pouliot pretty much fits the bill.
100% ********. Go watch AK with Carbo as a coach. You have a really short memory. Sometimes AK looked like young Hossa.

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05-23-2010, 10:07 AM
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100% ********. Go watch AK with Carbo as a coach. You have a really short memory. Sometimes AK looked like young Hossa.
Well, that's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. AK had good sequences over the years, but nothing like what he was displayed when we first saw him in the WJC. I don't remember him ever taking charge. In Pouliot I see a guy who can enter the offensive zone with the puck like Gomez do, a guy who is talented enough to become the goto guy on his line. Andrei looks more and more like an eternal third wheel. Not a bad player, but someone who will never break the 60 pts.

If I had to keep only one I would keep Pouliot and it's not even come close. Much cheaper, higher celling. Andrei is a guy I'm not sure this management will be ready to spend UFA dollars on - and the decision will have to be made next year.

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05-23-2010, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citylife View Post
Pouliot is an ectomorph... without steroids he probably can't gain mass.

So strange what happened to his game.
I've been wondering the same thing about him, something in his head has gone out the window.

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05-23-2010, 10:32 AM
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Maybe Pouliot is just not a good player. He has been an AHL-caliber player his entire career. And the Habs knew this when they traded their best young forward for him. It's nice that he gave the Habs a hot streak when he came in not to make it look like the absolute horror the trade really was, but I'm afraid what we're seeing from him is just "reverting to form". Worst trade by the Habs in a long long while there. What the hell were they thinking anyway?

I don't think Gomez needs to be traded. He is a good player, but he is really getting hurt by Martin's style; the two are a terrible, terrible fit together. He's been a productive player before, he's a puck possession ace and one of the better 5-on-5 players in the game, but his skills are largely wasted in Martin's style.

AK gets a bad rap, but he's okay. Not a bad guy to have five-on-five and he has talent, so he could always unblock. If not, well, he's not going to cost a fortune as top-six wingers go.

Plekanec is the team's most trusted center. He does heavy lifting, tough minutes, he takes defensive draws, the works. And it's no coincidence Cammy is scoring most of his goals on his wing despite this. I'm not adverse to replacing him, but there needs to be a player to replace him with and tough-minute centers do not grow on trees. The only remotely comparable player on the UFA market would be Marleau.

In general, though, the Habs make all their players look bad. Individual puck possession metrics almost invariably drop when a player joins the Habs, and improve when they leave. It's not even a Martin problem, it's been going on for at least three years. This is the problem that needs to be fixed. Otherwise, "remaking the top six" will just result in us whining about players that used to be better on other teams sucking for the Habs.

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05-23-2010, 10:38 AM
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Just need to change AK for a more physical scoring type that can fore-check and dynamo Pouliot next season somehow. You can't really make drastic changes season after season and keep a team happy. If you make changes because of the cap however, that might pass better and AK is -3.25 mil that you could replace with a rookie salary.

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05-23-2010, 11:02 AM
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Just need to change AK for a more physical scoring type that can fore-check and dynamo Pouliot next season somehow. You can't really make drastic changes season after season and keep a team happy. If you make changes because of the cap however, that might pass better and AK is -3.25 mil that you could replace with a rookie salary.
He's the only player in our top 6 right now that is physical and does forecheck.

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05-23-2010, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by citylife View Post
Pouliot is an ectomorph... without steroids he probably can't gain mass.

So strange what happened to his game.
this is even more ridiculous than what the OP said...

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05-23-2010, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Aurel Joliat View Post
We are in conference finals and people wants to change 4 of the top 6 forwards ? Ridiculous
I know. It's unbelievable.

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05-23-2010, 11:11 AM
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I know. It's unbelievable.
The Habs' ECF finish is very misleading though. It's Halak, Cammy, a ridiculous dose of luck, and not much else.

If Halak's goaltending reverts to his career average -- and his career average is very good -- I honestly think it's very likely this will not be a playoff team next year.

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05-23-2010, 11:15 AM
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The Habs' ECF finish is very misleading though. It's Halak, Cammy, a ridiculous dose of luck, and not much else.

If Halak's goaltending reverts to his career average -- and his career average is very good -- I honestly think it's very likely this will not be a playoff team next year.
It's not misleading at all. They won two seven game series against the best teams in the league. There's not a lot of room for fluke in a best of seven format. I would much rather try to figure out what made this team as successful as it was.

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05-23-2010, 11:18 AM
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He's the only player in our top 6 right now that is physical and does forecheck.
He does forecheck??? You know what forecheck is right? AK spends most of his ice time in front the net, not behind it.

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05-23-2010, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by couris View Post
Cammalleri-X-X
X-X-Gionta

AK, Pouliot, Plekanec, Gomez gone.
That is just pure genious!! you blow up my mind

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