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Remaking the top 6

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Old
05-23-2010, 11:26 AM
  #26
Goldthorpe
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
Maybe Pouliot is just not a good player. He has been an AHL-caliber player his entire career. And the Habs knew this when they traded their best young forward for him. It's nice that he gave the Habs a hot streak when he came in not to make it look like the absolute horror the trade really was, but I'm afraid what we're seeing from him is just "reverting to form". Worst trade by the Habs in a long long while there. What the hell were they thinking anyway?
But then, maybe you're wrong. Maybe the guy who was potting goals like crazy for weeks until he injured his wrist again is the real Pouliot. Maybe it's Latendresse who will return back to form next year. But then, why speculate when you can simply call it the "worst trade by the Habs in a long long while there" (Ribeiro was way worst, just for a start) and say that "He has been an AHL-caliber player his entire career. And the Habs knew this". There's nothing like grandiose dramatic statements to make it sound like you know what you're talking about.

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Old
05-23-2010, 11:36 AM
  #27
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Either get Pouliot and Akost going or find adequate replacements.

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Old
05-23-2010, 11:45 AM
  #28
llamateizer
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Damn.. this team sucks the way you describe it...
we're only in conference final.

AK has zero sense of hockey?
he might not having a great playoffs. he's our 5th point leader... oups
Plekanec has been on ice only 10 of 13 goals of cammalleri

Damn so much negativism from your part.
imagine if you cheered for the leafs

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Old
05-23-2010, 11:57 AM
  #29
HabuseMoi
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Originally Posted by couris View Post
Cammalleri-X-X
X-X-Gionta

AK, Pouliot, Plekanec, Gomez gone.
I'll raise you one better
x-x-x
x-x-Iginla

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Old
05-23-2010, 12:22 PM
  #30
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It's ok, tomorrow after we win, the top 6 will be awesome again and we won't be able to afford anyone.

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Old
05-23-2010, 12:25 PM
  #31
Aurel Joliat
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My top 6 for next year :

Pouliot - Gomez - Gionta
Cammalleri - XXXX - XXXX

Size please

And just for fun, 3rd and 4th line :

Moen - Moore - Lapierre
Pyatt - White - XXXX (enforcer)

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Old
05-23-2010, 12:53 PM
  #32
tinyzombies
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We need a few more playoff type players in the top 6. We need an Iginla, as does everyone.

1. First thing I'd do is let Plekanec walk and sign Koivu to a two year contract as the second line center. The team has been somewhat unfair to Pleky. He has no help on the wing. None. They expect him to fight all board battles himself. In any case, I think Koivu can be just as effective in the short-term and won't disappear come playoff time and he'll be a lot cheaper. Koivu WILL fight to get to the net. And give him back the 'C'.

2. Trade Hammer for a pick. We are obviously not going to win the Cup without Markov. So if Markov is hurt, it doesn't matter anyway, we're done.

3. Get rid of the Kostitsyns. Package them with Price. Whatever, just get them out of here. I would hang onto Pouliot though. That was his first long NHL run and I think he's just tired. Give the kid a couple years.

4. Sign Kovalchuk. There, I said it.

If we can't get someone with top 6 size or who will be a playoff performer, we will never contend. Fact is, we have a lot of warriors, but if we continually make the small guys fight all the battles, we can't make it through four rounds of playoff hockey. We need more size balance in the top 6. Same old story.

Getzlaf...(cry). So much for the so-called Best Player Available. We need to start drafting for need. All else being equal, take the guy with SIZE. You can't play puck possession without size. I find it hard to believe that Andrei Kostitsyn's tough guy act, and it's an act, is what sold our guys. Makes me angry. But they've been brilliant otherwise. But how do you make such a huge mistake like that? Stay in Canada, enough of the Euro stuff.


Last edited by tinyzombies: 05-23-2010 at 12:59 PM.
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Old
05-23-2010, 01:16 PM
  #33
Daice
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Quote:
Originally Posted by couris View Post
Cammalleri-X-X
X-X-Gionta

AK, Pouliot, Plekanec, Gomez gone.
aren't you that guy who wants to trade gomez ak plecks markov subban and the rest of the team for lecavalier?

NHL 10 is fun eh

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Old
05-23-2010, 01:37 PM
  #34
MathMan
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Originally Posted by Goldthorpe View Post
Maybe the guy who was potting goals like crazy for weeks until he injured his wrist again is the real Pouliot. Maybe it's Latendresse who will return back to form next year.
Maybe so, but that doesn't seem very likely. Consider: for all the hype about how much better he's been doing in Minnesota, these are Latendresse's production-per-icetime numbers, 5-on-5 for last year and this year:

08-09 MTL: 1.08 ESG/60, 1.80 ESP/60
09-10 MIN: 1.15 ESG/60, 1.81 ESP/60

Notice any similarities?

Latendresse is not playing better for Minnesota than he did for Montreal. He's merely receiving ice time commensurate to his production and his abilities, including high-quality power play icetime. And so his counting numbers improved... even though, proportionally, he did not (much). He was always very good for Montreal, it's just that his coach and his fans have been utterly unable to recognize it -- possibly because he's not a very elegant skater.

Meanwhile, Pouliot had never been able to crack the Minnesota roster as a NHL regular before this year. He was very hot for Montreal once he came back from injury (to his credit -- he even slightly exceeded Latendresse's numbers listed above!). But now he's gone back to being completely useless.

So let me ask you this. You say Latendresse might "return to form". Except that this is his form. Why would Latendresse's number dip for the level he's held them for 3 years? He's had a bad spell for the Habs, playing for Martin, and then once he was traded, that was when he returned to form.

Meanwhile Pouliot had a very strong streak when he came over from Minnesota, and understand, I don't want to undersell how good he's been over that stretch, a stretch over which he actually outdid Latendresse. The problem is that that's the aberration for him, career-wise. What we see now is him "returning to form", too. Hopefully the real Pouliot is the guy who completes Gomez and Gionta so well, not the befuddled player who gets caught out of position all the time... but if history is any guide, it's not something I'd bet on.

At best this trade is a push. At worst -- and I'm really afraid that's what we're seeing here -- this is basically Montreal giving away a very good young player. I hope it works out, but this is a trade that shouldn't have been made.

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Old
05-23-2010, 01:48 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by tinyzombies View Post
1. First thing I'd do is let Plekanec walk and sign Koivu to a two year contract as the second line center. The team has been somewhat unfair to Pleky. He has no help on the wing. None.
Not to belittle the very, very valid point that Plekanec is getting all the tough jobs, but he has Mike F. Cammalleri on his wing. And Cammy is the team's best winger, a whisker ahead of Gionta and head and shoulders above everyone else (figuratively speaking, of course ) and the best winger the Habs have had in a while period. And before he had Kovalev, who was consistently the team's best or second-best winger.

Koivu can't do the same job at this point in his career.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyzombies View Post
3. Get rid of the Kostitsyns. Package them with Price. Whatever, just get them out of here.
IMHO, Montreal needs to get out of the mindset of "getting rid" of players. It's at the root of every single awful trade they've made over the last few years. They need to start managing assets, and AKost is going to be a relatively inexpensive top-six winger.

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Originally Posted by tinyzombies View Post
4. Sign Kovalchuk. There, I said it.
That's not a terrible idea if it can be made to fit in the cap -- a Kovalchuk-Gomez-Gionta line is pretty scary, what with Gomez excelling at tilting the ice towards the offensive zone, Kovalchuk excelling at shooting (he's one of the very few players who consistently shoots 15%), and Gionta just excelling. The idea of Kovalchuk taking the shots for generated by Gomez-Gionta is extremely alluring, especially if the Habs have Cammalleri on their back pocket driving the second line. But Kovalchuk is going to demand more money than he's worth. He's an excellent goal-scorer, but he's fairly one-dimensional; I wouldn't spend a 10 million cap hit on the guy. 7ish million, sure. 8ish million, maybe. But someone is going to sign him for more than that.

Then again, it's worth a phone call to see if he might be willing to play for the Habs. It would be nasty on the cap though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyzombies View Post
We need to start drafting for need. All else being equal, take the guy with SIZE.
Oh, please, please no. That kind of thinking led to the black hole of drafting the Habs had before Timmins got over. Too much Western Canadian beef not enough speed or size. Terry Ryan? Jason Ward? I mean, ugh.

Size is overrated. Size is not losing the Habs this series, and it hasn't lost them a series in years either. The Habs are getting torched by Giroux and Briere, for God's sake -- it's not like they're being lit up by big forwards!

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Originally Posted by tinyzombies View Post
Stay in Canada, enough of the Euro stuff.
Charming. And silly.

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Old
05-23-2010, 02:06 PM
  #36
Bieber fever
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but who can replace plekanec ??

Staal
Richards
berglund
Little
Stoll
pierre-marc bouchard lol
sheppard
arnott


my choice would be :

pouliot-gomez-gionta
cam-berglund-ak

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Old
05-23-2010, 02:16 PM
  #37
vokiel
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Originally Posted by hotsauce514 View Post
but who can replace plekanec ??

Staal
Richards
berglund
Little
Stoll
pierre-marc bouchard lol
sheppard
arnott


my choice would be :

pouliot-gomez-gionta
cam-berglund-ak
I think you could add Mathew Lombardi to this list. Probably cheaper than Plekanec, tons of speed, local talent and UFA.

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Old
05-23-2010, 02:18 PM
  #38
Aurel Joliat
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Originally Posted by vokiel View Post
I think you could add Mathew Lombardi to this list. Probably cheaper than Plekanec, tons of speed, local talent.
+1

But there is not a lot of center will become UFA, perhaps his contract will be bigger than what we expect. Anyway, I prefer Lombardi to Plekanec

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Old
05-23-2010, 02:32 PM
  #39
Cupmonger
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You do know what we just did in the playoffs right? honestly...
Agreed with this. It sucks terribly to be shutout three times in 3rd round of the playoffs. Its down rite embarrassing. But going this far and having a very hard time against a team that matches very well against us is hardly inexcusable. The Flyers play more grittier then the previous teams, they're way more aggressive. And their offensive talent is spread out through multiple players/lines and not just 3 stars.
It saddens me to see us hit a wall like this. But I'm hardly pissed off at the team. And for giving us 2 great rounds in the playoffs, I raise my beer at them.

Now, for the sake of discussing trades, apart from the "rebuilding". I try to trade off the Kost brothers. They're talented, no doubt. But I don't think they'll be any good for us. AK, has had a few good moments during regular season and has been very mediocre in the playoffs. His little brother, well, what should I say? He's good too. Thing is, these kids are often big distractions and have yet to get their drive on (officially) and show it.
I disagree on Gomez. Apart from the stupid penalties he got vs Flyers. He's been good for us. Yea yea, you probably expect more than 1 goal in 18 playoff games. But apart from goals scored, he's been an important player.
Pleks, I ant to resign him. He's played well in regular season. Playoffs, he's been ok, a bit invisible on the scoring side. This will probably diminish his value. But you can't let go of a player like him.
Cammy, and Gio, keepers no doubt. And Gio seems good with Gomez, and vis versa.

But for the love of good things. Don't jump the gun on a immature fanboy rage because we're having a hard time against a team that strives on the type of play that is our weakness.

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Old
05-23-2010, 02:35 PM
  #40
Bieber fever
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Originally Posted by vokiel View Post
I think you could add Mathew Lombardi to this list. Probably cheaper than Plekanec, tons of speed, local talent and UFA.
yup I forgot him....he's probably the most realisic option and he wont cost any asset. mabye also Marleau


Last edited by Bieber fever: 05-23-2010 at 02:42 PM.
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Old
05-23-2010, 02:53 PM
  #41
scottyG
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I said this in another thread, trade for Joe Thorthon.

Cammy-Thorthon-A.Kostitsyn
Pouliot-Gomez-Gionta

Size problem solved

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Old
05-23-2010, 03:22 PM
  #42
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The jury is still out on a guy like andrei, but at this point i'd keep him.

Plek, despite what everyone says, I'd keep him at the right price without a doubt. GREAT two-way player and I think he's worn down. He faced top lines all season and had tons of PK time, it's rough.

Pouliot, keep without a doubt. He needs to add muscle and he can be effective.

Gionta & Cammalleri I'd keep as well, for obvious reasons.

If it were possible, I'd trade Gomez and balance the lines with more depth. It's obvious Gomez's style helps open up space and I like him, but his contract keeps haunting us.

You're left with:

__-Plek-Cam
Gionta-__-Pouliot
Andrei-__-Sergei

Guys like cullen, jokinen and and so on could be had and with wtv return gomez gives, we'd be bigger and in better shape.

However, in the end, it's a pipe dream, never gonna happen and I know it. Just saying major depth would be added.

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Old
05-23-2010, 03:26 PM
  #43
FF de Mars
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Just for fun, if it was last summer, with Roy as head coach :

Latendresse-Lecavalier-StLouis
Cammalleri-Koivu-Radulov

But it's so easy to manage a team when you are behind your computer...

Just for fun, with what we have :

Andrei-Gomez-Gionta
Cammy-Pleks-Pouliot

We're kind of screwed with what we have. The best plan would be to stick to our guns and pray that Andrei and Benoît both become real players. As of Pleks and his big contract and the fact that he shies away from physical contact in the playoffs, If only Avstyn or Leblanc were ready !


Last edited by FF de Mars: 05-23-2010 at 03:40 PM.
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Old
05-23-2010, 03:35 PM
  #44
lxzred
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OMFG ROFL, I have forgotten the pain and bitterness from yesterdays painful defeat. Its pain has been replaced with the hilarity of this thread. Is it true? Do we really have the worst fans in the world? I always hoped it was a percentage thing, you know, more fans so more idiots.
We've played 16 more games than the experts predicted.
We played 20 more games than half the league.
I thoroughly enjoyed this run and even if the team craps in the bed again tomorrow after I get over the disappointed it takes nothing away from this great run.
Enjoy It.

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Old
05-23-2010, 06:07 PM
  #45
nyhabsfan
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Originally Posted by Frankenheimer View Post
I know. It's unbelievable.
why is it unbeliveable.... what has pleky, AK46 and Pouliot done in the last 2 rounds when is really mattered?

You don't win with guys who don't want to sacrifice their bodies and play dirty.

We have too many soft players in our top 6.

IMO our first prioirty would be to get rid of the Kostitsyn Bros... a level 1 prospect and a 1st round pick in 2011.

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Old
05-23-2010, 07:20 PM
  #46
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If we do lose Plekanec, because we wait too much and we aren't able to give him the money he want, I would try to get Lombardi, he could do an amazing job at a IMO cheap price. Another option is getting Jokinen he is UFA and I think he could be sign for a not too big cap hit considering his two back to back bad seasons. Remember that the guy had his best seasons in his career being coached by Martin.

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Old
05-23-2010, 07:48 PM
  #47
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Plekanec needs some players to compliment his style. He is a good player and is our best defensive forward, give him a player like Ryane Clowe that will create space for him offensively. Sign Pleks for 4 million and year and trade Price for Clowe..

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Old
05-23-2010, 07:53 PM
  #48
couris
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daice View Post
aren't you that guy who wants to trade gomez ak plecks markov subban and the rest of the team for lecavalier?

NHL 10 is fun eh
Gomez + Pacioretty for Lecavalier. Trade or waive hamrlik. Trade Markov for Iginla. Sign Paul martin.

Cammalleri-Lecavalier-Iginla
X-X-Gionta

WOW

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Old
05-23-2010, 07:55 PM
  #49
couris
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Originally Posted by TheCH View Post
Plekanec needs some players to compliment his style. He is a good player and is our best defensive forward, give him a player like Ryane Clowe that will create space for him offensively. Sign Pleks for 4 million and year and trade Price for Clowe..
eww not Price for Clowe. Price for Backes. Trade something else for Clowe. Pouliot + 1st + Kristo for Clowe.

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Old
05-23-2010, 08:11 PM
  #50
LyricalLyricist
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Honestly, I'm under the belief the best way to success it to add some size to plek/cam and gionta/gomez trios and make a 3rd line of andrei and sergei with a defensively responsible center. Pouliot(please add muscle) would be one of the 2 'size' guys on top 2 lines.

Halak/Price for Clowe

Clowe-Plek-Cam
Pouliot-Gomez-Gionta
Andrei-Malhotra-Sergei
Moen-Lapierre-Pyatt/White

Edit: or Halak/Price+Hamrlik for Vlasic(if possible). Then sign Bertuzzi/armstrong/ponikarovsky/etc.


UFA-Plek-Cam
Pouliot-Gomez-Gionta
Andrei-Malhotra-Sergei
Moen-Lapierre-Pyatt/White


Andrei-O'byrne
Vlasic-Spacek
Gorges-Gill
Subban


Last edited by LyricalLyricist: 05-23-2010 at 08:18 PM.
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