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International Tournaments Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

Tournament Awards & All-Star Team

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Old
05-23-2010, 06:21 PM
  #26
zorz
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Vokoun should be best goalie at least

Thank you Tomáš Vokoun, you are the best

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Old
05-23-2010, 06:27 PM
  #27
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No OEL?

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Old
05-23-2010, 07:01 PM
  #28
Que Sera Sera
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Congrats to Pääjärvi-Svensson! OEL should have gotten best defender.

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Old
05-24-2010, 05:04 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeberStreit View Post
Endras didn't play one game against Russia (Germany played them twice). If you just let him play against "weaker" teams, that's not really good for a MVP. Plus, Voukun was the MVP of the best team in the tournament, so that should have been a no-brainer.
One of the alleged "weaker" teams was your Swiss squad which beat the eventual champion and scored three times on Vokoun with 24 shots, but could not find a way to solve Endras with 41 shots.
He played in all high-pressure games for Germany (the opener against the US, the crucial games against Denmark and Slovakia when the pressure was mounting) and won all but one game (the bronze-medal one) and gave up a single weak goal in the entire tournament.

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Old
05-24-2010, 05:22 AM
  #30
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My all-star team:

G - Vokoun
D - OEL (some homerism, but he was absolutely awesome)
D - Nummelin
F - Dats
F - Rolinek
F - MPS

Best goalie: Vokoun
Best defenseman: Nummelin
Best forward: Dats

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Old
05-24-2010, 05:53 AM
  #31
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Endras really deserves to be the MVP!

He played an unbelievable tournament.

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Old
05-24-2010, 06:23 AM
  #32
Eisen
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If you want to criticize a German in the all star team it's Ehrhoff. He played awesome but I could see other players being picked before him. Endras was an absolute no brainer. Played on his head in all pressure situations excluding the semis against Russia. He has incredible numbers. I don't see how he should bot be picked.

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Old
05-24-2010, 08:38 AM
  #33
GoHomez
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One could make a case that the tournaments MVP should play in more than 6 out of 9 games and AT LEAST in quarter+semi finals and bronze/gold game.

With that said, I didnt see too many of the games Germany played so I am not questioning the selection per se.

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Old
05-24-2010, 08:51 AM
  #34
Rexor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eisen View Post
If you want to criticize a German in the all star team it's Ehrhoff. He played awesome but I could see other players being picked before him. Endras was an absolute no brainer. Played on his head in all pressure situations excluding the semis against Russia. He has incredible numbers. I don't see how he should bot be picked.
I don't know, awarding the MVP to someone whose team didn't even get a medal?
Assuming Philadelphia wins the series against Montreal, would it make sense to give the Conn Smythe to Halák eventually?
Not to mention that without Vokoun, Czechs would have big trouble making the quarter-finals. He was at least equally important to his team as Endras.

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Old
05-24-2010, 09:13 AM
  #35
Old Man Jags
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German journalists

There has been a lot of talk about Endras and Ehrhoff being in the All Star Team as it was voted on by the press, and German journalists have by far the largest amounts of accreditations so no surprise at the outcome. Endras is justifyable - he was IMHO second best after Vokoun, and a bit of home team bias is OK. But Ehrhoff?? Please.

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Old
05-24-2010, 09:20 AM
  #36
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MVP does not mean "the best player of a team, which win a medal. It must be the best player, not matter in which team he is playing. And Endras was definetely the goaltender with the best performance.

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Old
05-24-2010, 09:20 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexor View Post
I don't know, awarding the MVP to someone whose team didn't even get a medal?
Yeah, but Endras carried the team into the semifinals. Germany was technically relegated last year - we hoped to get into the premilinary round. It was great that we reached the quaterfinals, but finnishing 4th is the best outcome ever. Endras played very strong (except for the last game) and started our "run" with his huge performance against the US and reached the climax against Switzerland. Vokun would have been a solid MVP, too. Moreover the allstar team was voted before the final was played.



Quote:
Originally Posted by WeberStreit View Post
Endras didn't play one game against Russia (Germany played them twice). If you just let him play against "weaker" teams, that's not really good for a MVP. Plus, Voukun was the MVP of the best team in the tournament, so that should have been a no-brainer.
Your reaction is the best proof that Endras deserves to be there. You know, he had a shutout against Switzerland - the probably best team of this tournament.

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Old
05-24-2010, 09:47 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tronador View Post
MVP does not mean "the best player of a team, which win a medal. It must be the best player, not matter in which team he is playing.
Umm, no. MVP means the most valuable player. For instance, if there's a forward who scores ten goals per game yet his team manages to lose all these games, he might be considered the best forward in the tournament but certainly not the most valuable one. MVP awards tend to be strongly linked to teams' performances.

Look, I understand it was a huge tournament for German hockey and there's no doubt that Endras was instrumental to his team's success. But four acknowledgments for the fourth place team, two acknowledgments for the team who lost in the quarter-finals and no acknowledgment for the gold-medal winning team... it seems quite strange.

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Old
05-24-2010, 01:06 PM
  #39
harkonnon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Man Jags View Post
There has been a lot of talk about Endras and Ehrhoff being in the All Star Team as it was voted on by the press, and German journalists have by far the largest amounts of accreditations so no surprise at the outcome. Endras is justifyable - he was IMHO second best after Vokoun, and a bit of home team bias is OK. But Ehrhoff?? Please.
I agree that Ehrhoff's All Star Berth is probably a tribute to the host nation or as you say a result of a bigger amount of German Journalists.

Then again I had seats for the Preliminary Round close to the Press Box Seats and can say

Voting from the Journalists regardless of their Nationality is a friggin joke

Many of these Folks don't even watch the games, at least not the Games without participation of their Home Nation. You see these People running around all the Time while Games go on, talking to each other with their backs to the action etc

I even had a run-in with 2 German Journalists chatting happily on the balkony taking away the line of sight of many seats including mine while the Game was running.
I even missed a Goal during the USA-Finnland Game thanks to these 2 Assh...s.
My Comment: I'm here to watch the Game and not 2 People-not-doing-their-Job was answered with an arrogant: "You are German, what the hell do you care for a Game without Germany in it !"

So much for the Competence of many, but certainly not all Journalists voting for an All-Star Team !

And even if they care and watch all Games at hand, they still miss the action running simultaneously in the other Arena. This is also true for probably all of us here as well.

So what is my Point, Don't count too much into the Voting as it is Flawed and Probably much more than one of say an NHL All-Star Team.
So be happy to have All Star Teams that are not completely off.

btw ... If I had a vote for MVP

Peter Regin would have been my choice, as he was the Centerpiece of a very well organized Danish Team and did it all from PP QBack to PK Pest to Even Strength.
Then again the Danes probably did not go far enough to have one of their own considered MVP


Last edited by harkonnon: 05-24-2010 at 04:11 PM.
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Old
05-24-2010, 01:20 PM
  #40
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dunno about Ehrhoff in the All-Star team but Endras deserves it... If you have seen every game of him and every minute of it you would agree... he has been spectacular against the US boys and against Suisse... And in the other games he saved germany several times...

Vokoun played fantastic too but struggeled in the early stage of the WC. Thats probably why they gave it to Endras, as he has been great in each game. As already mentioned look at the numbers

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Old
05-24-2010, 03:27 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexor View Post
I don't know, awarding the MVP to someone whose team didn't even get a medal?
Assuming Philadelphia wins the series against Montreal, would it make sense to give the Conn Smythe to Halák eventually?
Not to mention that without Vokoun, Czechs would have big trouble making the quarter-finals. He was at least equally important to his team as Endras.
Not comparable at all. This is a short tournament, nine games maximum, the Stanley Cup playoffs are best of seven each round. The difference between losing in the World Championship semi-finals and losing in the Conference finals is enormous. Especially if you look how much in control the Flyers are right now, compared to the close games in the WCH semis. It took the Czechs a lucky break to even make the final, while one small mistake took Germany out of contention, it could easily have been the other way round. Flyers-Montreal, not so much.

Not to mention that the outcome isn't everything. Jose Theodore won the Hart Trophy even though his team barely made the playoffs.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexor View Post
Look, I understand it was a huge tournament for German hockey and there's no doubt that Endras was instrumental to his team's success. But four acknowledgments for the fourth place team, two acknowledgments for the team who lost in the quarter-finals and no acknowledgment for the gold-medal winning team... it seems quite strange.
As was mentioned countless times, voting was done before the gold and bronze games. At that point, Germany had come close to upsetting the huge favorite while the Czechs inched past Sweden who looked like they had all but sealed the win. No one could expect the Czechs, who hardly played an impressive tournament up to that point, to control the Russians rather easily in the final.

Apart from that, the best players and the allstar team are about individual performance. Apart from Vokoun, no Czech stood out enough to really be in contention. Jagr maybe, but then again Kovalchuk or Regin were also ignored. In such a short tournament one or two games don't make a difference, so having someone from a team that lost in the quarterfinals is perfectly fine.

The only somewhat questionable decision is putting Ehrhoff in the allstar team, the rest is perfectly fine. Endras/Vokoun may have been a close call, but if both the media and the IIHF directorate choose Endras it's hard to say they are all wrong.

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Old
05-24-2010, 03:39 PM
  #42
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so... are there any teams that contacted Endras' Agent???

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Old
05-24-2010, 04:31 PM
  #43
Rexor
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Again, I've got no intention to belittle the individual performance of some of the German players. But you make a few points that are worth responding.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanderson View Post
As was mentioned countless times, voting was done before the gold and bronze games. At that point, Germany had come close to upsetting the huge favorite while the Czechs inched past Sweden who looked like they had all but sealed the win. No one could expect the Czechs, who hardly played an impressive tournament up to that point, to control the Russians rather easily in the final.
To the point, the Czechs had beaten France, Latvia, Canada, Finland and Sweden (twice). I guess it's pretty unimpressive compared to Germany beating the Americans, Denmark, Slovakia and Switzerland...

Quote:
Apart from Vokoun, no Czech stood out enough to really be in contention. Jagr maybe, but then again Kovalchuk or Regin were also ignored. In such a short tournament one or two games don't make a difference, so having someone from a team that lost in the quarterfinals is perfectly fine.
I disagree. You mentioned Jágr and Vokoun. Rolinek was the team's captain and easily one of the best two-way forwards in the tournament. Rozsíval stood out in our defence.
And yes, in such a short tournament, one or two games don't make a difference. There's no difference between being eliminated in the quarter-finals or playing the gold-medal game, there's no difference between finishing fourth or getting the gold medal.

Btw, MPVs from the IIHF WCH since 2005:

Austria 2005: Joe Thornton (Canada; finished 2nd)

Latvia 2006: Niklas Kronwall (Sweden; finished 1st)

Russia 2007: Rick Nash (Canada, finished 1st)

Canada 2008: Dany Heatley (Canada, finished 2nd)

Switzerland 2009: Ilya Kovalchuk (Russia, finished 1st)

The pattern is obvious.

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Old
05-24-2010, 04:51 PM
  #44
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Rolinek should've had Malkin's spot and Regin should've had MPS'.
But the choices are pretty good overall.

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Old
05-24-2010, 06:23 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexor View Post
Again, I've got no intention to belittle the individual performance of some of the German players. But you make a few points that are worth responding.



To the point, the Czechs had beaten France, Latvia, Canada, Finland and Sweden (twice). I guess it's pretty unimpressive compared to Germany beating the Americans, Denmark, Slovakia and Switzerland...


I disagree. You mentioned Jágr and Vokoun. Rolinek was the team's captain and easily one of the best two-way forwards in the tournament. Rozsíval stood out in our defence.
And yes, in such a short tournament, one or two games don't make a difference. There's no difference between being eliminated in the quarter-finals or playing the gold-medal game, there's no difference between finishing fourth or getting the gold medal.

Btw, MPVs from the IIHF WCH since 2005:

Austria 2005: Joe Thornton (Canada; finished 2nd)

Latvia 2006: Niklas Kronwall (Sweden; finished 1st)

Russia 2007: Rick Nash (Canada, finished 1st)

Canada 2008: Dany Heatley (Canada, finished 2nd)

Switzerland 2009: Ilya Kovalchuk (Russia, finished 1st)

The pattern is obvious.
And so what? As long as there is no restriction concerning the MVP, you have to live with such decision. You should celebrate the title of your team, instead of beeing angy, that Endras was chosen as the MVP.


But i also have to agree, that i wouldn't choose Ehrhoff into the all-star-team.

Best regards

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Old
05-25-2010, 02:06 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexor View Post
Again, I've got no intention to belittle the individual performance of some of the German players. But you make a few points that are worth responding.



To the point, the Czechs had beaten France, Latvia, Canada, Finland and Sweden (twice). I guess it's pretty unimpressive compared to Germany beating the Americans, Denmark, Slovakia and Switzerland...


I disagree. You mentioned Jágr and Vokoun. Rolinek was the team's captain and easily one of the best two-way forwards in the tournament. Rozsíval stood out in our defence.
And yes, in such a short tournament, one or two games don't make a difference. There's no difference between being eliminated in the quarter-finals or playing the gold-medal game, there's no difference between finishing fourth or getting the gold medal.

Btw, MPVs from the IIHF WCH since 2005:

Austria 2005: Joe Thornton (Canada; finished 2nd)

Latvia 2006: Niklas Kronwall (Sweden; finished 1st)

Russia 2007: Rick Nash (Canada, finished 1st)

Canada 2008: Dany Heatley (Canada, finished 2nd)

Switzerland 2009: Ilya Kovalchuk (Russia, finished 1st)

The pattern is obvious.
you cant compare that, never has been such an Underdog like Gemrany in the Semis.

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