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Jim Schoenfeld interview

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Old
05-25-2010, 01:32 PM
  #26
nyr2k2
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Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
How do you feel about Yzerman in TB? Same way?
Yzerman has been the VP of Hockey Operations in Detroit, a wildly successful franchise with a great GM. He's been the GM of WC-winning teams and a Gold Medal-winning team in international competition. Those are significant managerial accomplishments, and he's learned from great managerial minds. Mess? I don't know, not as much.

I'm not saying that Mess will do poorly and Yzerman will succeed. But I think Yzerman is more accomplished and has been associated with more success, and right now, is actually deserving of a GM position.

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05-25-2010, 01:38 PM
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To me, it sounds like he's saying "We don't want another Redden/Drury/Gomez situation." As in, it's not fair to sign a guy to fill a role he isn't suited for and then expect him to fill that role.

I dunno, maybe that's just me, but if I'm right that begs the question: Are they actually smart enough to know that?
I interpreted the quote differently. Kinda like "we're not going to make it public that we're after a big time player, because when/if we dont sign the bigtime player and we then turn around and sign someone with less skill for the same money, the fans are going to be pissed at us and the new player"

I dont know, its very ambigious...but given the track record of this management team, I find trouble interpreting it a different way.

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05-25-2010, 01:44 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I interpreted the quote differently. Kinda like "we're not going to make it public that we're after a big time player, because when/if we dont sign the bigtime player and we then turn around and sign someone with less skill for the same money, the fans are going to be pissed at us and the new player"

I dont know, its very ambigious...but given the track record of this management team, I find trouble interpreting it a different way.
I don't know, that seems kind of strange. We're going to be pissed off regardless of whether or not there was a previous target. If they're chasing Marleau for $6MM and then give it to Koivu, I'd be pissed off either way.

I'm sure they're trying to cover their own *****, but I have trouble thinking it's to cover a potential missed target with an even less suitable one.

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05-25-2010, 01:48 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I don't know, that seems kind of strange. We're going to be pissed off regardless of whether or not there was a previous target. If they're chasing Marleau for $6MM and then give it to Koivu, I'd be pissed off either way.

I'm sure they're trying to cover their own *****, but I have trouble thinking it's to cover a potential missed target with an even less suitable one.
Well I think the point is, if Jim Schoenfeld responds to the question by saying "we need an established #1 center" and then they miss out of Marleau and resort to signing Matt Cullen, then it looks like a complete failure on management's part, whereas if they are vague on what they are going to address then there are no expectations.

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05-25-2010, 01:49 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Yzerman has been the VP of Hockey Operations in Detroit, a wildly successful franchise with a great GM. He's been the GM of WC-winning teams and a Gold Medal-winning team in international competition. Those are significant managerial accomplishments, and he's learned from great managerial minds. Mess? I don't know, not as much.

I'm not saying that Mess will do poorly and Yzerman will succeed. But I think Yzerman is more accomplished and has been associated with more success, and right now, is actually deserving of a GM position.
But - did he deserve the VP position two or three months after he retired and accomplished nothing from a managerial standpoint? I'm not really sold on the 2007 IIHC WC meaning all that much - it's an all-star team that won. Big whoop.

If Mess (instead of Stevie Y) were appointed to VP of a team with a successful GM, like Holland, then what accomplishments would've been his exactly? Isn't that hard to judge?

I'm not really sold on the experience thing. A guy that's been around hockey for 40+ years and is generally regarded as one of the best leaders the sport has ever seen has to have a decent chance to be a decent GM. Could he do a lot worse than Sather? I don't think Yzerman has extensive experience at an NHL level either - but his track record as a player and team leader is equally (if not more) important to whatever he's done since the summer of '06 to earn a position with the TB Lightning.

I'm not even advocating him for the position but I also don't think it's a fault of his that Sather happens to run the Rangers and the two are close. I think the "GM experience" argument is a bit less relevant to a guy that's been around the sport for 40+ years. Yzerman proves that, too.

Don Maloney retired in '91 and was a GM in '92.
Nieuwendyk retired in '07 and was a GM in '09 (was a "special assistant" first, too)
Garth Snow retired in '06 and was hired as a GM in '06

It's not unheard of. I don't think any of us really knows whether or not Messier will be any good at this except for the people "in the circle".

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05-25-2010, 01:52 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
Comparing the Rangers to Chicago is asinine.

Why?

2009 28th overall (Olsen)
2008 11th overall (Beach)
2007 1st overall (Kane)
2006 3rd overall (Toews)
2005 7th overall (Skille)
2004 3rd overall (Barker)
2003 14th overall (Seabrook)
2002 21st overall (Babchuk)
2001 9th overall, 29th overall (Ruutu, Munro)
2000 10th & 11th overall (Yakubov, Vorobiev)

That's EIGHT top 11 draft choices since 2000. The Rangers have had that luxury TWO times. Top 3 choices? Chicago 3. Rangers 0.

Who's making the biggest impact for the 'Hawks? Kane. Toews. And Dustin Byfuglien (who is turning out to be a great 245th pick).

Furthermore, before this year you could hardly call the 'Hawks, with the longest Cup drought in the league, successful. If you look at their success, a large part is because of the "Penguins Model" of franchise building by completely sucking for a couple of years to draft high. Fortunately, or unfortunately, the Rangers have never been THAT bad.
Just because Chicago is good now doesnt mean theyre a model franchise. They havent won a Cup in nearly 50 years and have been completely irrelevant for years and years in the hockey world as well as Chicago.

Its only bound to happen that your team eventually gets good when youre awful for so long and stack up on top 11 draft picks.

It was only a matter of time really.

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05-25-2010, 01:57 PM
  #32
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Again, I'm not saying he'll be good or bad. But right now, I don't see the credentials. Yzerman has the credentials. We can debate till the cows come home what those credentials really mean, or how deserved his achievements are...but they are what they are. Mess was a great player, but what evidence is there that he understand the managerial side of things? If he's learning from Glen and the rest of our guys, that's scary. I look at Yzerman, and I can at least feel somewhat reassured that he knows what he's doing, and has learned from good hockey minds.

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05-25-2010, 02:01 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I interpreted the quote differently. Kinda like "we're not going to make it public that we're after a big time player, because when/if we dont sign the bigtime player and we then turn around and sign someone with less skill for the same money, the fans are going to be pissed at us and the new player"

I dont know, its very ambigious...but given the track record of this management team, I find trouble interpreting it a different way.
This is exactly correct imo... By bringing up Gaborik's name, he's essentially saying that they do feel kind of strongly about 1 of the high priced guys out there. If they don't get him, then they are prepared to sign nobody significant. That is a good thing though, because in a cap world, you have to bat a thousand with the guys you sign at big money. Maybe they are learning that.

If he felt a certain way about a defenseman on the market, I believe he would have brought up a different name, and not Gaborik.

Just suggests Kovalchuk or Plekanec. Right or wrong, his comments certainly move towards that.


We do need more high end talent on the ice, I'm just not sure that either Kovalchuk or Plekanec are the correct way to go.

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05-25-2010, 02:49 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
But - did he deserve the VP position two or three months after he retired and accomplished nothing from a managerial standpoint?
You're missing the point. Both players got their 1st job based on who they are. Yzerman got the GM job in TB because of what he's done SINCE he got that 1st job.

Messier has 1 year of experience and has no accomplishments to speak of. If he were hired today as a GM, it would be on the basis of his playing days, not his time spent in the front office.

Being a great player is enough to get your foot in the door, but you have to prove you know what you're doing (most of the time) to get the big job.

Quote:
Don Maloney retired in '91 and was a GM in '92.
Nieuwendyk retired in '07 and was a GM in '09 (was a "special assistant" first, too)
Garth Snow retired in '06 and was hired as a GM in '06

It's not unheard of. I don't think any of us really knows whether or not Messier will be any good at this except for the people "in the circle".
Nieuwendyk, the jury is still out. Brett Hull didn't do so well though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brett_Hull

Quote:
At the beginning of the 200607 season, Hull returned to the Dallas Stars in a front-office role as special assistant to team president Jim Lites
Sound familiar?

Quote:
On November 11, 2007, Stars' owner Tom Hicks fired Doug Armstrong as general manager and later named Hull and Les Jackson as interim co-general managers.
Snow hasn't really been tested yet. He's had nothing but low draft picks and he's building a decent system, but he's never had money to spend, he's hardly ever involved in trades. Until their financial situation gets settled, I'd have to give him an incomplete.

Don Maloney was GM of the islanders from 92-95 and the team got worse under his watch.

It's not unheard of that people with little management experience are made GMs, but if you are looking for a successful GM, that's probably not the way to go.

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05-25-2010, 08:42 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
You're missing the point. Both players got their 1st job based on who they are. Yzerman got the GM job in TB because of what he's done SINCE he got that 1st job.
I'm not missing anything. He worked as VP under one of the, or the, best GM in the game and GM'ed an all star team to a WJ Gold Medal. I'm not saying he won't be successful or that Messier is more experienced. I'm saying that Stevie Y got his VP position within a couple of months based on his playing career and the jury is out on whether or not he'll be a good GM. He might be a great GM. Mark might be a great GM. Neither has a track record by which to judge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
Messier has 1 year of experience and has no accomplishments to speak of. If he were hired today as a GM, it would be on the basis of his playing days, not his time spent in the front office.

Being a great player is enough to get your foot in the door, but you have to prove you know what you're doing (most of the time) to get the big job.
Totally disagree. And my examples prove my point. I didn't point them out to measure their success - I did point them out based on the fact that they were hired with little to no experience. Doesn't mean that Mark should get the job.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
Snow hasn't really been tested yet. He's had nothing but low draft picks and he's building a decent system, but he's never had money to spend, he's hardly ever involved in trades. Until their financial situation gets settled, I'd have to give him an incomplete.

Don Maloney was GM of the islanders from 92-95 and the team got worse under his watch.

It's not unheard of that people with little management experience are made GMs, but if you are looking for a successful GM, that's probably not the way to go.
I think Snow has done very well given what he's had to work with. My point here really isn't that Messier should be hired, it's that it's not like it would be unprecedented if he were and the negativity about his ability to be a future GM really isn't warranted. We really just don't know.

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05-25-2010, 08:53 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
I think Snow has done very well given what he's had to work with. My point here really isn't that Messier should be hired, it's that it's not like it would be unprecedented if he were and the negativity about his ability to be a future GM really isn't warranted. We really just don't know.
I don't think anyone really said it would be unprecedented. Just unwise. And I'm not down on his ability to be a good GM down the road, and I don't think anyone really is. But most of us would prefer someone with more experience and more of a managerial pedigree. Someone proven, or at least more experienced at any level. Not such a wild card.

And no matter how you slice it, it screams of cronyism. I'm not saying that is uncommon...but I still don't like it.

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