What effect would the Flyers winning the Stanley cup have on the Rangers and assessing what direction the franchise has been going in the last 15 or so years?
When you compare the two teams in terms of fan bases, size of market, and financial power, the Flyers are the Rangers closest rival. Both teams have had been forced to rebuild, but the scope and success has apparently been different between the Rangers and Flyers.
Do the Flyers winning a championship put pressure on the Rangers, whether it be internal or from the outside, to reevaluate their strategy? Would the media put more pressure on New York (i.e. Philadelphia is successful, why aren't you)? We all make fun that Dolan is clueless, but could a Cup in Philadelphia trigger something within Sather / the Rangers brass make changes?
It seems whenever the two teams meet its a turning point: in '95 after they beat uds
As a fan, do you think a Flyers cup run kind of shines a light onto the magnitude of the Rangers failures?
As a Flyer's fan I don't think there is that much of a difference. The Flyers rebuilt with their draft/trade of/for some young studs (Richards, Carter, Giroux, Coburn, even Gagne is only 30) and a few good signings (Briere, Hartnell & Kimo). This got them to a point where they could roll the dice on a blockbuster to fill a missing piece (Pronger). Even then they barely made the playoffs as you obviously know.
Rangers have good young core of guys Del Z, Staal, Cally, Dubi & Henry.
The only difference was two misses on FA signings.
well we lost to the flyers in a shootout so if they win the cup we're automatically second best right? Cause if we won the shootout, we'd have done exactly what they did, right? And since the shootout was so close, i think we should be declared Stanley Cup Champion 1B.
As a Flyer's fan I don't think there is that much of a difference. The Flyers rebuilt with their draft/trade of/for some young studs (Richards, Carter, Giroux, Coburn, even Gagne is only 30) and a few good signings (Briere, Hartnell & Kimo). This got them to a point where they could roll the dice on a blockbuster to fill a missing piece (Pronger). Even then they barely made the playoffs as you obviously know.
Rangers have good young core of guys Del Z, Staal, Cally, Dubi & Henry.
The only difference was two misses on FA signings.
Let's just say as a Rangers fan born in Pennsylvania, I wouldn't be too happy. They have bragged and picked on me since that shootout in the final game of the season. They must NOT win a cup.
Yeah no implications IMO. Even if some fans believe that just because we were close to the Flyers in the regular season we are somehow on par with them it couldn't be further from the truth. These finals are pretty much a match up of the two deepest rosters in the NHL. The Flyers are not scrubs who barely made it to the finals, they are a stacked team that finally gelled at the right time.
There are many implications that will happen from the Flyers winning the cup but none of them will be towards the rangers as an organization just us fans. I can't even imagine dealing with their fans if they win. Out of all the teams in the NHL their number 2 on my list of teams that I hope never wins another cup.
The Flyers can never seem to draft and develop a defenseman. Their mid-1980's teams which lost in two finals to Edmonton had D acquired in trades. Mel Bridgeman to Calgary for Brad Marsh. Behn Wilson to Chicago for Doug Crossman. Pete Peeters to Boston for Brad McCrimmon. Three way deal between the Flyers,Oilers and Whalers. Hartford traded Mark Howe to Philly for Ken Linseman and then traded the Rat to Edmonton for Risto Siltanen. Then in 1986,the Flyers traded Bob Froese to the Rangers for Kjell "Seaweed" Samuelsson and a 2nd round pick. Brilliant move by Espo. VBK won the Vezina in May/June of 1986 and in December of 1986,Espo trades for another goalie to split the time with VBK. That would be like Sather signing a goalie this summer and have him split the 82 games with Henrik.
This team is the same. Chris Pronger from Anaheim. Carle from TB. Coyburn from Atlanta. Timmonen was a free agent. Parent from Nashville.
Think Chicago will win but why would Philly winning have any implications on the Rangers? Pittsburgh and Jersey have won with the Rangers universe staying the same.
Look at all the recent "Cinderella" or Cup Finalists:
2006 -- Edmonton: Mortgaged the future to get Pronger, then outrageously overpaid for the handful of guys who fueled their Cup run. Haven't made the playoffs since.
2006 -- Carolina: Same thing. Didnt make the playoffs in 3 of 4 years since winning the Cup and have a mediocre system. Still, One Cup and another CF trip is impressive
2007 -- Ottawa: They've been a mess since going to the Cup. Two 1st round knockouts and not making the playoffs in between. This year they stabilized the situation a little, but the Heatley trade was terrible, Alfredsson is getting old, Volchenkov is gone and their goaltending is suspect
2008 and 2009 -- Pens and Detroit are elite teams. Well built and well run organizations who will continue to compete for the Cup for the next few years. Pens built through massively sucking, Detroit built by Front Office brilliance.
2010 -- Chicago is an elite team.
The Flyers are lucky. If that idiot Parenteau was a tad more disciplined in the 3rd period, the Flyers would have been blown up from the top down within days of getting eliminated.
I don't want to take anything away from the Flyers, but they are just another example of everything falling into place at the right time.
So to answer your original question: No. No implications on the Rangers or how they design and develop a roster.
The only thing the Flyers run implies is that Lundqvist better wake the heck up and steal a round for once in his career
What effect would the Flyers winning the Stanley cup have on the Rangers and assessing what direction the franchise has been going in the last 15 or so years?
When you compare the two teams in terms of fan bases, size of market, and financial power, the Flyers are the Rangers closest rival. Both teams have had been forced to rebuild, but the scope and success has apparently been different between the Rangers and Flyers.
Do the Flyers winning a championship put pressure on the Rangers, whether it be internal or from the outside, to reevaluate their strategy? Would the media put more pressure on New York (i.e. Philadelphia is successful, why aren't you)? We all make fun that Dolan is clueless, but could a Cup in Philadelphia trigger something within Sather / the Rangers brass make changes?
As a fan, do you think a Flyers cup run kind of shines a light onto the magnitude of the Rangers failures?
Haven't read the thread, but I would venture to guess that the Flyers winning the cup would have no more effect on the way the Rangers do things as would any team winning the cup. Because they are close in terms of both market and proximity means nothing in the grand scheme of things.
Philly's cup win would have no more bearing on the Rangers than Tampa, or Dallas or Edmonton winning the cup.
The Flyers can never seem to draft and develop a defenseman. Their mid-1980's teams which lost in two finals to Edmonton had D acquired in trades. Mel Bridgeman to Calgary for Brad Marsh. Behn Wilson to Chicago for Doug Crossman. Pete Peeters to Boston for Brad McCrimmon. Three way deal between the Flyers,Oilers and Whalers. Hartford traded Mark Howe to Philly for Ken Linseman and then traded the Rat to Edmonton for Risto Siltanen. Then in 1986,the Flyers traded Bob Froese to the Rangers for Kjell "Seaweed" Samuelsson and a 2nd round pick. Brilliant move by Espo. VBK won the Vezina in May/June of 1986 and in December of 1986,Espo trades for another goalie to split the time with VBK. That would be like Sather signing a goalie this summer and have him split the 82 games with Henrik.
This team is the same. Chris Pronger from Anaheim. Carle from TB. Coyburn from Atlanta. Timmonen was a free agent. Parent from Nashville.
Think Chicago will win but why would Philly winning have any implications on the Rangers? Pittsburgh and Jersey have won with the Rangers universe staying the same.
Timonen was actually a trade before a signing. The Flyers gave up a 1st rounder for the rights to both Timonen and Hartnell and then proceeded to overpay both guys to sign early so that they wouldn't hit UFA status.
Goal scoring. The beginning and end of everything. Flyers beat:
-the Devils because the Devils underperfomed and Brodeur did his typical weak goal per game PO performance. However the Flyers didn't look all that great but they scored while the Devils best players didn't.
-the Bruins because Boston played an incredible physical game and outdueled Philly on many shifts but the Philadelphia forwards scored and Boston didn't.
-the Canadiens because Montreal was too small and too soft and got outmuscled on almost every play. Their speed couldn't make up the difference but again, Philadelphia kept on scoring and the red hot Montreal scorers (Cammaleri and Gionta) didn't.
The lesson I take away is that Gaborik and a handful of 20 goal guys in Dubinsky and Callahan (and most likely Anisimov) won't cut it. Not even with brilliant defense and stellar goaltending will we have a chance of getting to the finals with such limited scoring. This is why I have no problems trying to get Zherdev back and making a play for Kovalchuk. The biggest problem the Ranger have as an organization is high end goal scoring ability and there isn't much out there but we have to try and get whatever we can without trading the core.
Philly is a very deep team (and has been for the most part since the lockout). They had one re-tooling year where they were one of the worst teams in the league and the next season they were back in the playoffs. Their biggest problems in recent history has been goaltending. One paper they are one of the deepest teams in the league:
Forwards:
Richards
Carter
Briere
Gagne
Hartnell
Giroux
JVR
Defense:
Pronger
Timmonen
Coburn
Carle
Finally a solid Philly team has a hot goalie in the playoffs. I'd say Leighton is more the Cinderella then the Philly team itself. And wasn't Philly one of the better teams in the East until the end of January/beginning of February (Think they had like 32 wins up until the Olympic break)?
What effect would the Flyers winning the Stanley cup have on the Rangers and assessing what direction the franchise has been going in the last 15 or so years?
When you compare the two teams in terms of fan bases, size of market, and financial power, the Flyers are the Rangers closest rival. Both teams have had been forced to rebuild, but the scope and success has apparently been different between the Rangers and Flyers.
Do the Flyers winning a championship put pressure on the Rangers, whether it be internal or from the outside, to reevaluate their strategy? Would the media put more pressure on New York (i.e. Philadelphia is successful, why aren't you)? We all make fun that Dolan is clueless, but could a Cup in Philadelphia trigger something within Sather / the Rangers brass make changes?
As a fan, do you think a Flyers cup run kind of shines a light onto the magnitude of the Rangers failures?
This is why games in Jan and Feb are important. the NYR have gone to the well, with late season playoff pushes far too often in recent years and this time it bit them in the behind.
The Flyers would not be in this position if the NYR showed up for work for two more reg. season pts! that's harder for me to stomach than any shootout loss, because we should have had the post season wrapped up before our season ending finale.
Also, benefiting from one of the most epic choke jobs by Boston in recent years didn't hurt them either. There's a reason why things like that don't happen too often!
Regardless of the finish the NYR and the Flyers are in different situations. They may have found their goalie for next season. Their locker room apparently has come together in this run, but it nearly cost them the season. Will that be an issue next season?
Remember the Flyers haven't won anything yet. If they lose in the the SCF (they will in 5) then this season will be remember only for the comeback against Bos and a gutsy "Rockyesque" run to the finals.
NYR need more talent, all around along with purging out players who's battle level is gone: Redden, past it: Drury, or simply not worth the $$$: Rosival. This team really can't go forward with these bad contracts.
Philly is a very deep team (and has been for the most part since the lockout). They had one re-tooling year where they were one of the worst teams in the league and the next season they were back in the playoffs. Their biggest problems in recent history has been goaltending. One paper they are one of the deepest teams in the league:
Forwards:
Richards
Carter
Briere
Gagne
Hartnell
Giroux
JVR
Defense:
Pronger
Timmonen
Coburn
Carle
Finally a solid Philly team has a hot goalie in the playoffs. I'd say Leighton is more the Cinderella then the Philly team itself. And wasn't Philly one of the better teams in the East until the end of January/beginning of February (Think they had like 32 wins up until the Olympic break)?
one thing to remember is how notorious the flyers players are for getting injuries. They are doing well because they finally have a healthy team. Can they count on the health of Briere and Gagne?
IDK going forward. Flyers fans wanted Hartnell's head for the majority of the season.
one thing to remember is how notorious the flyers players are for getting injuries. They are doing well because they finally have a healthy team. Can they count on the health of Briere and Gagne?
IDK going forward. Flyers fans wanted Hartnell's head for the majority of the season.
They're healthier. They don't have their top goalies.
Other than the last 2 Stanley Cup Champions coming from our Division which prob makes our division the hardest in the league (3 Stanley Cup final appearances in 3 years) I see nothing else.
Flyers - Possible 2010 Winners
Penguins - Participated in 2 Out of the last 3 SC finalists & winning one of them.
Devils - Very successful organization for the past 15 years.
Islanders - Extremely gifted youngsters coming into prime years soon.
I also think Chicago is going to kick the crap out of them and no one outside of Philly will remember this run 10 years from now.
You may very well be right that Chicago wins the final series but, in the future, any time a team goes down 0-3 in a series the 2010 Flyers will be mentioned along with the other three teams in professional sports who came back from an 0-3 deficit. I think that memory will last a lot longer than 10 years both inside and outside of Philly.
Leighton will be lit up like a Christmas tree so I don't see how this is even going to happen. It's going to be like 1997 all over again for them.
There's no reason to believe that's going to happen. He arguably put the Flyers back into the playoff picture mid season. He saved the Bruins series when Boucher went down. 6-1, 1.45/.948, 3SO in the playoffs after returning from 8 weeks on IR. I'm not betting against the guy at this point. It will piss me off if the Flyers finally did find the one piece they've been missing for almost 2 decades though.
