Not when refs give you penalties for being bigger. The playoffs were the first time Yann went out there knowing he wouldn`t get penalties and he was arguably the best defenseman in the league the last two rounds.
That's good to hear - was he recognized as such by the league? All-defense team?
All I have to base my opinion of Sauve on is the 2 training camps he attended in Vancouver. The first one he looked like a complete trainwreck that obviously didn't belong and the 2nd one he looked much better, though nowhere near NHL ready.
Though I don't see Sauve as a blue-chip prospect it is encouraging to know at one point he was looked at as one of the top defensemen in the world at his position and age - I just hope it wasn't because he hit puberty before everybody else. I think we'll find out the answer next season.
I am luke warm on him. I don't understand the negativity, sure he's done nothing to blow us away, but he is a 2nd rounder and he's going to play on the Moose and hopefully learn a pro-style game and be an option for the 2011 or 2012 teams. He's got size, skating, reasonably high skill level. If he learns a solid professional 2-way game in the AHL he should make it as a bottom pairing Dman at worst. Even if he never cracks 25 points at NHL level he'll still be a big, smooth skating Dman and that would be a welcome addition to our team.
That's good to hear - was he recognized as such by the league? All-defense team?
All I have to base my opinion of Sauve on is the 2 training camps he attended in Vancouver. The first one he looked like a complete trainwreck that obviously didn't belong and the 2nd one he looked much better, though nowhere near NHL ready.
Though I don't see Sauve as a blue-chip prospect it is encouraging to know at one point he was looked at as one of the top defensemen in the world at his position and age - I just hope it wasn't because he hit puberty before everybody else. I think we'll find out the answer next season.
Size+skating+skill mask lower hockey IQs to some degree at that age. Clearly Sauve is no Doughty in the hockey IQ stakes, but we won't know for sure what he's got as a hockey brain till he gets to the Moose and we see how well he can learn and adapt to the pro-game. I'm quite hopeful.
That's good to hear - was he recognized as such by the league? All-defense team?
All I have to base my opinion of Sauve on is the 2 training camps he attended in Vancouver. The first one he looked like a complete trainwreck that obviously didn't belong and the 2nd one he looked much better, though nowhere near NHL ready.
Though I don't see Sauve as a blue-chip prospect it is encouraging to know at one point he was looked at as one of the top defensemen in the world at his position and age - I just hope it wasn't because he hit puberty before everybody else. I think we'll find out the answer next season.
He was a finalist for defensive defenseman of the year and defenseman of the year. No accolades for being the best D for two rounds, except for Saint John making it to game 6 of the finals with only 5 D at the end (Sauve and Despres were literally alternating shifts)
He probably had some say on the subject (given that it was a 2nd round pick) but it's not like Sauve played right in his "direct area of responsibility" like some other 2nd round pick that he likely a greater influence on the selection (eg., Raymond or Ellington).
I forgot, was Sauve picked before or after Gillis decided to overhaul some of the scouting back East?
Perhaps I'm reaching here but I'd say it would be beneficial to keep one of these guys (Sauve or Connauton) as a spare dman that plays the odd game.
Hell, Edler only got a chance because we had so many injuries as well. It's tought to determine what a player will do in a given situation. He may not excel at the AHL level but could be better at the NHL level where he has more skilled teammates.
The Nucks can hopefully, eventually hit a home run with one of these defenseman picks...
After all, Shea Weber went in the 2nd round (49th overall) 2003 NHL Entry Draft
and Duncan Keith went in the 2nd round (54th overall) 2002 NHL Entry Draft
Perhaps I'm reaching here but I'd say it would be beneficial to keep one of these guys (Sauve or Connauton) as a spare dman that plays the odd game.
Hell, Edler only got a chance because we had so many injuries as well. It's tought to determine what a player will do in a given situation. He may not excel at the AHL level but could be better at the NHL level where he has more skilled teammates.
I am very high on K-con, I honestly truly believe he will be in this line up as a 6th/7th guy for Vancouver by the END of the year next year.
might be crazy talk, but I seen many games for the giants, and he truly impressed me more then any other d-man in awhile.
Also his defensive flaws, are not NEARLY as bad as people make it out to be.
Yann Sauve also has a solid chance, gillis seems to be high on both, and with continued development, there is a solid chance both see game action in the nhl next year at what ever times.
Sauve is a decent prospect, who should hopefully figure into our plans after a season or two in Manitoba. But anyone who thinks he'll challenge for a roster spot next year or will ever be more than a 20-point defensive defender in the NHL is dreaming.
Similar skill set to Mark Fistric who has established himself as a solid 3rd-pairing defender in Dallas in his 4th pro season, but took a full AHL season + two seasons split between the AHL and NHL before he got there.
Upside is probably to be a Rob Scuderi-type who can be a solid #4-5 defender, provide a physical presence, and be reliable defensively on the 2nd pairing. If we got that result out of Sauve in 3-4 years, I'd be thrilled with the pick. Anything better than that would be frankly shocking at this point.
Downside is if he simply doesn't have the hockey sense and decision-making ability to stick in the NHL.
He was a finalist for defensive defenseman of the year and defenseman of the year. No accolades for being the best D for two rounds, except for Saint John making it to game 6 of the finals with only 5 D at the end (Sauve and Despres were literally alternating shifts)
It really seems like Yann Sauve's offensive production was held back for most of his time with Saint John, except for this last season. I know that the coaching staff was more defensive-minded in seasons past, but this year they wanted the D-men to actively jump up into the rush.
It also sounds like he was relied on for more of a stabilizing defensive presence on the team, whereas his younger and more offensive-minded teammates on D like Beaulieu and Despres were given opportunities on the PP over Sauve. I can see why his point production might not have met the expectations of him when he was 16, but I wouldn't worry about that too much.
Also, since it's been mentioned that the refs would penalize him for hitting, he should no longer have to hold back in the pros. I seem to remember you saying something before about how he would play better if he was allowed to get physical and nasty. When you also look at the playoffs he had and the point/per game ratio that he put up, that is definitely an encouraging sign. There's one poster on CDC who would always say how he was under-appreciated by Sea Dogs fans, but in reality he was probably the No. 1 defenceman for his team.
I got a question though: how much has his decision-making improved? Apparently that's the only flaw of consequence in his game, and I'm just curious to see how he has developed in that regard.
Perhaps I'm reaching here but I'd say it would be beneficial to keep one of these guys (Sauve or Connauton) as a spare dman that plays the odd game.
Hell, Edler only got a chance because we had so many injuries as well. It's tought to determine what a player will do in a given situation. He may not excel at the AHL level but could be better at the NHL level where he has more skilled teammates.
Wha?
Edler put up 53 points in 62 games as a WHL rookie at Sauve's age and played for Sweden at the WJHC, then went on to be a 0.5ppg+ defenseman over 49 games as a 20-year old AHL rookie. It's not like he didn't have the credentials and just stumbled into an NHL call-up where it was discovered that he actually knew how to play hockey.
but in reality he was probably the No. 1 defenceman for his team.
There was discussion about the Sea Dogs in the prospect boards awhile back, and the posters there said that Despres was the team's top defenseman. I don't watch the Sea Dogs, so it will be interesting to see Bjindaho's take on this.
I have always perceived Sauve as a defenseman with limited offensive skills, but with his surge in putting up points during the playoffs, I don't know what to think of him. Were his points truly a display of his talent, or was it because of the linemates he was playing with?
I have always perceived Sauve as a defenseman with limited offensive skills, but with his surge in putting up points during the playoffs, I don't know what to think of him. Were his points truly a display of his talent, or was it because of the linemates he was playing with?
He is certainly an enigmatic prospect.
Pretty much every defensive defender in the NHL put up big numbers in the OHL/WHL/QMJHL when they were there. Guys like Scott Hannan and Corey Sarich were point-per-game players. Shane O'Brien put up similar numbers to Sauve in his last year of junior.
Any half-decent prospect should be an elite player in their final junior season. If they aren't, then they aren't going to make it.
It doesn't mean anything with regard to his pro upside. He's a defensive defender and will never be more than a 20-point player in the NHL.
It really seems like Yann Sauve's offensive production was held back for most of his time with Saint John, except for this last season. I know that the coaching staff was more defensive-minded in seasons past, but this year they wanted the D-men to actively jump up into the rush.
It also sounds like he was relied on for more of a stabilizing defensive presence on the team, whereas his younger and more offensive-minded teammates on D like Beaulieu and Despres were given opportunities on the PP over Sauve. I can see why his point production might not have met the expectations of him when he was 16, but I wouldn't worry about that too much.
Also, since it's been mentioned that the refs would penalize him for hitting, he should no longer have to hold back in the pros. I seem to remember you saying something before about how he would play better if he was allowed to get physical and nasty. When you also look at the playoffs he had and the point/per game ratio that he put up, that is definitely an encouraging sign. There's one poster on CDC who would always say how he was under-appreciated by Sea Dogs fans, but in reality he was probably the No. 1 defenceman for his team.
I got a question though: how much has his decision-making improved? Apparently that's the only flaw of consequence in his game, and I'm just curious to see how he has developed in that regard.
His decision making improved immensely. No shots at defenders (he learned how to get them by), no holding the puck unless he is skating with it (and isn`t going to lose it), and his plays in his own zone improved to the point where Moncton`s forecheck was useless against him.
There was discussion about the Sea Dogs in the prospect boards awhile back, and the posters there said that Despres was the team's top defenseman. I don't watch the Sea Dogs, so it will be interesting to see Bjindaho's take on this.
I have always perceived Sauve as a defenseman with limited offensive skills, but with his surge in putting up points during the playoffs, I don't know what to think of him. Were his points truly a display of his talent, or was it because of the linemates he was playing with?
He is certainly an enigmatic prospect.
1a and 1b scenario. Game 6 against Moncton, they literally alternated shifts all game. Despres played Durepos 5 on 5 and was the big gun on the PP (with Hoffman), and Sauve played with Beaulieu 5 on 5 and was our key penalty killer.
Seriously though, put up or shut up. I want to hear some predictions on Sauve's potential.
I'm sticking with my second pairing Brad Stuart clone who'll peak at 40 points. I think he'll be able to play 20 minutes a night in all situations. I think he'll take two years to make it but he'll be a smooth physical defenseman that we lack in the system.
Seriously though, put up or shut up. I want to hear some predictions on Sauve's potential.
I'm sticking with my second pairing Brad Stuart clone who'll peak at 40 points. I think he'll be able to play 20 minutes a night in all situations. I think he'll take two years to make it but he'll be a smooth physical defenseman that we lack in the system.
Hockey's Future rates his upside potential as a 3/4 D-man but could well end up being a Number 7 guy.
They forecast him to be... "a long-term project who will most likely needing further seasoning in the minor pro ranks" and see him likely starting off in the ECHL with the Salmon Kings next season. They also note that "Sauve was once more highly touted than he is today and considered to have greater offensive potential."
If he develops to his potential then he would be... "a steady and reliable second pairing defender."
Seriously though, put up or shut up. I want to hear some predictions on Sauve's potential.
I'm sticking with my second pairing Brad Stuart clone who'll peak at 40 points. I think he'll be able to play 20 minutes a night in all situations. I think he'll take two years to make it but he'll be a smooth physical defenseman that we lack in the system.
I also think he will be a Brad Stuart clone, just in the 15-20 point range though. Agree with your timelines on him making the NHL too.
my guess is he's going to take a few years to develop. He will start in a depth spot in Manitoba next year and stay there without a call-up all season, adjusting to the AHL game. In his first pro year, I think he'll basically be a #5/6 guy in Manitoba.
Guessing beyond that, he's back in the AHL the following year with call-up duty and moves up the depth chart through the season. In his 3rd year he will legitimately challenge for a depth spot on the Canucks, but may still find himself back in Manitoba. I think he will be a long-term project, but I think he'll get a good chance to develop into an everyday NHLer over the next few seasons in the farm system. In 3-4 years I think he'll establish himself as a bottom-pairing NHLer and in his prime I think he'll be a good 2nd pairing guy, though by that time he'll hit UFA status and who knows if he'll still be with this organization.
Give the kid some credit for his improvement from last year. Not only did he get more points, but he improved from a -4 to a +42. In one year!
This proves to me that he has a good head and has potential to develop when given proper coaching (just like what happened when St. John got their new coach last year).
-4, +42. That is impressive to me. He may not become a Seabrook or a Doughty, but if he becomes a solid 3/4th defender I will be very happy with him.
