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Lombardi "Not Optimistic" on Frolov

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05-27-2010, 03:41 PM
  #101
KINGS17
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Originally Posted by Goallum View Post
It is, but I see a few problems with this.

For one, if THAT was such an irreparable issue for the organizational well-being, he should have been traded already, at the deadline at the latest, but probably much sooner. The fact that he wasn't to me is an indication that on the balance of things, perhaps it's not something that is as great of a determinant in this equation as one might think.

Second, indications are that the other part to that equation is on the verge of heading for greener pastures, if not this offseason, still soon enough, and Lombardi acknowledged as much in his NHL Live interview.

Third, as I already mentioned, if organizational well-being is of such importance, there's another situation going on right now that is a lot more serious, potentially a lot more damaging, and immeasurably more high-profile, and I haven't yet seen a single indication that this particular aspect of the organizational well-being is the overriding concern in dealing with it.
Yeah, but you know that ain't happening. I don't think I have ever been part of a large organization where there were not some double standards.

And JT, please enlighten us on how Cammalleri is sticking it to the Kings. I thought he was sticking it to Montreal to the tune of $6M a season, which he definitely is not worth, even if he scores 30 goals from one knee in the playoffs.

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05-27-2010, 03:44 PM
  #102
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Frolov can succeed elsewhere and I won't blink an eye. In fact, I fully expect for him to have his best seasons in upcoming years. To me, it wasn't about his lackluster season this year, but the fact that he's stoic and indifferent. I want passion and drive in my players and Frolov has neither.

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05-27-2010, 03:45 PM
  #103
Julius Caesar Milan
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Originally Posted by JT Dutch View Post
... Sorry but that's one of the most hilarious lines I've ever read.

If you're gonna marry yourself to a team, you HAVE to marry yourself to players. What is the team made up of? Players, obviously. Are you going to marry yourself to the GM? To the owner? To Tim Leiweke?

As for the topic of the thread, this is just more proof that no matter how much certain people in here love Dean Lombardi, Dean's biggest fan will always be himself. He just can't help himself, HE has to be the star of the team -- not Kopitar, not Doughty, not any of the players who actually win the games and bring success to the organization. It's always about Dean. He doesn't want to actually negotiate and go back and forth, it's almost like that is beneath him. Accept HIS terms or you're dead to him. There is no such thing as loyalty to an organization or doing what is best for the organization at the time. What Dean's ego wants always comes before anything or anyone else.
This is nothing more than opinion and if this were the case, you wouldn't have players like Thornton or Stuart who played for Dean on previous teams signing with him as a free agent.


According to Dean(as we haven't heard Frolov's side of the story) Fro is asking for more than the Front office thinks He is worth.

There is also the public offer from the KHL for Frolov. It's tax free money, so that automatically adds an extra 40-50% that the Kings in cap world will have trouble competing with. Would you prefer that Lombardi shot the organization in the foot and signed Frolov to a $5-6 mil deal?
Look at the cap figures, this team is going to be very tight in a couple of years, especially considering Doughty, Bernier and Johnson will be RFAs at the same time. Our D needs to be upgraded and we need more scoring.

Now if Frolov had went and signed with Atlanta for like 3 Million(which I think He is worth) then I would have a problem with letting Frolov walk.

As far as your assesment of Lombardi being an egomaniac. That's how I see Leiweke. Notice that we didn't see Lombardi all over Kings broadcasts, in the paper, and everywhere and anywhere...but Leiweke was.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Dutch View Post
So, I hope Frolov sticks it to the Kings for the rest of his career, and I have no doubt that, barring injury, he will. And we'll have a thread in here again, much like the thread with Cammalleri, where yet another player will leave the Kings and proceed to play well and go farther in the playoffs than the Kings ever will -- and yet there will be people who will still cling to their love for Lombardi and twist things around, and they'll say Frolov never wanted to stay, that he didn't have loyalty, etc. It's the same old boring and tired song.
Other than Cammalleri, where is the history of this happening with Lombardi?

Before you say Moulson. Moulson said Himself that He never able to put it all together in LA and I also credit a lot of Moulson's success on the Island to Tavares.


And for the record, I think DL did the right thing with Cammalleri, Cammy was reportedly looking for 6 mil+ a year and DL didn't think the team would be in the playoffs as soon as it was. DL shopped Cammy, got what He could and addressed an organizational need. Also recall Cammy was traded the same offseason that ownership told DL to cut payroll because of the Celtics people, which also resulted in the Lubo trade.


Last edited by Julius Caesar Milan: 05-27-2010 at 03:58 PM.
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05-27-2010, 03:52 PM
  #104
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I heard from Ferris Bueller's sisters boyfriends lawn care specialist that Frolov was banging cocktail waittresses two at a time like Fredo and that Dean didn't wan't that behavior around the kids (Doughty Simmonds, Kopitar, etc).

I also heard that Dean high-fived him afterwards. True Story.

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05-27-2010, 03:54 PM
  #105
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Yeah, but you know that ain't happening. I don't think I have ever been part of a large organization where there were not some double standards.
Which is exactly the point.

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05-27-2010, 03:54 PM
  #106
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Lombardi's Position (and Frolov's) hasn't changed since January

Los Angeles Kings: Alexander Frolov Destined For KHL?

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05-27-2010, 03:59 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Goallum View Post
Which is exactly the point.
Yep, that wasn't lost on me at all. It happens.

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05-27-2010, 04:06 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Little Bunny Foo Foo View Post
So what do you think if a fair contract for Frolov?


Hypothetical:
And what do you if Frolov asks for 1.5 or 2x what you consider to be fair and affordable while fitting in to your overall cap picture?
I honestly don't think much of him at his current contract. I'd be satisfied a 3 million.... maybe. My point was that it just doesn't need to be said. We have seen him plant seeds and eventually paint the player as greedy altogether. Just pointing out that I notice a previous pattern starting to poke it's head.

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05-27-2010, 04:06 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by FrozenRoyalty View Post
Everyone keeps referring to Frolov's salary demands, but despite what you state in your article, Edmonton radio show revealed nothing about the salary Frolov is seeking. At the very least there has been no indication publicly that Lombardi and Frolov's agent even discussed numbers. Of course, that doesn't mean that they haven't, and you may have been told in private that they have, but if not, if all we have to go on is what's been stated publicly, "Frolov salary demands" is nothing more than speculation, so it's way too premature to opine that an NHL GM that would sign him to a contract would need to be referred to a neurosurgeon.

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05-27-2010, 04:10 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Goallum View Post
Which is exactly the point.
Would one of you mf'rs like to explain wtf you are talking about? I'd like to join the secret society. I currently have a radish in my pocket and I'm holding an umbrella upside down so I'm all clear!

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05-27-2010, 04:11 PM
  #111
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you either get the point or you get out....

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05-27-2010, 04:11 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by no name View Post
I honestly don't think much of him at his current contract. I'd be satisfied a 3 million.... maybe. My point was that it just doesn't need to be said. We have seen him plant seeds and eventually paint the player as greedy altogether. Just pointing out that I notice a previous pattern starting to poke it's head.
More hypothetical

Do you expect Lombardi to dodge the questions all together and theoretically let him walk on July 1 without saying anything?
You really don't see that happening with any team in any sport.

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05-27-2010, 04:14 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Goallum View Post
Everyone keeps referring to Frolov's salary demands, but despite what you state in your article, Edmonton radio show revealed nothing about the salary Frolov is seeking. At the very least there has been no indication publicly that Lombardi and Frolov's agent even discussed numbers. Of course, that doesn't mean that they haven't, and you may have been told in private that they have, but if not, if all we have to go on is what's been stated publicly, "Frolov salary demands" is nothing more than speculation, so it's way too premature to opine that an NHL GM that would sign him to a contract would need to be referred to a neurosurgeon.
He is seeking a nice raise from his current $4 million, and he's not worth that in anyone's eyes in the NHL, given the cap.

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05-27-2010, 04:17 PM
  #114
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Link? Seriously, I'm not disputing that he is, I just want to know if this information is derived from sources having any degree of legitimacy relying on concrete information.

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05-27-2010, 04:19 PM
  #115
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIX0ZDqDljA

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05-27-2010, 04:23 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Goallum View Post
Link? Seriously, I'm not disputing that he is, I just want to know if this information is derived from sources having any degree of legitimacy relying on concrete information.
What if Lombardi told Gann the number?

How is He supposed to link it?

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05-27-2010, 04:30 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Little Bunny Foo Foo View Post
What if Lombardi told Gann the number?

How is He supposed to link it?
"Link" wasn't meant literally. If Gann heard something from Dean or someone else, Gann should say so, because the assertions he makes in his article are not supported by the evidence he relies on in his article. If such other evidence exists, then it should be presented. If it does not exist, or if it exists but there is a confidentiality obligation in play so that it cannot be included in the article, then the article's logic is faulty.

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05-27-2010, 04:32 PM
  #118
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I feel like I'm in this part of Spaceballs and I'm Dark Helmet...

Quote:
Dark Helmet: What the Hell am I looking at?! When does this happen in the movie?!
Col. Sandurz: Now! You're looking at "now," sir. Everything that happens now is happening "now."
Dark Helmet: What happened to "then?"
Col. Sandurz: We passed it.
Dark Helmet: When?
Col. Sandurz: Just now. We're at now "now."
Dark Helmet: Go back to "then."
Col. Sandurz: When?
Dark Helmet: Now.
Col. Sandurz: Now?!
Dark Helmet: Now!
Col. Sandurz: I can't.
Dark Helmet: Why?
Col. Sandurz: We missed it.
Dark Helmet: When?
Col. Sandurz: Just now.
Dark Helmet: When will "then" be "now?"
Col. Sandurz: Soon.
Dark Helmet: How soon?
Spaceball: Sir!
Dark Helmet: What?
Spaceball: We've identified their location.
Dark Helmet: Where?
Spaceball: It's the moon of Vega.
Col. Sandurz: Good work. Set a course and prepare for our arrival.
Dark Helmet: When?
Spaceball: Nineteen-hundred hours.
Col. Sandurz: Buy high noon tomorrow they will be our prisoners.
Dark Helmet: Who?!
What are you guys talking about!?!

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05-27-2010, 04:37 PM
  #119
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I feel like I'm in this part of Spaceballs and I'm Dark Helmet...



What are you guys talking about!?!
I see your Schwartz is as big as mine!

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05-27-2010, 04:43 PM
  #120
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The trade was good but DL and his scouts blew it by passing on Myers. It happens with 18 year olds...
The trade was garbage.

We gave up a proven young elite level sniper and our first round pick and yes I am aware of all of the details of the actual trade(s) for an unproven draft pick that was outside of the top 5.

It was a sham that was done because DL wanted MC off of the team. MC has gone on to prove that DL blew that deal.

In the end, it doesn't change the fact that I still like DL as a GM but it does cause me concern about his ability to manage established players at times.

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05-27-2010, 04:52 PM
  #121
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The trade was garbage.

We gave up a proven young elite level sniper and our first round pick and yes I am aware of all of the details of the actual trade(s) for an unproven draft pick that was outside of the top 5.

It was a sham that was done because DL wanted MC off of the team. MC has gone on to prove that DL blew that deal.

In the end, it doesn't change the fact that I still like DL as a GM but it does cause me concern about his ability to manage established players at times.
He had hardly any value so it was a great trade but poor draft selection. Just about every Kings fan would take Myers over Cammalleri. I'd still rather have Teubert and cap space than Cammy.

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05-27-2010, 04:53 PM
  #122
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You know you cant pay Frolov even 4MM for 19Goals 32 Assists. At least not when you are already paying Smyth 6MM+ for 22 Goals and 31 assists. So when DL says you have to pay a player based on his performance, take it for what its worth.

What he didnt but should've have said was we won't pay Frolov based upon his potential because we are not using him that way.

Simply enough, is there anyone here, anyone, anyone (bueller??) that thinks Frolov's numbers wouldnt be considerably higher if he was playing with Kopitar most of the year as Smyth did? You are fooling yourself if you think his numbers wouldnt be significantly higher. Frolov was placed in a position where he couldn't come close to performing to his offensive potential and now that is being used against him. Whether "the other reasons" come into play or not, you can't blame Frolov for being assigned a defense first role on the checking line and still expect him to score like when he was utilized as a top 6 or even first line scorer.

When DL talks about the salary cap structure, lets not forget who worked the current numbers to their current levels within the structure emplaced by the league.

The reality is the writing has been on the wall for sometime that Frolov wasn't going to be brought back. The problem is how do you replace him, and still improve? Its not the same as keeping Frolov and adding Kovy or Marleau. Now, unless there is a big signing, IMHO opinion this team takes a step back, not forward.

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05-27-2010, 04:57 PM
  #123
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I see your Schwartz is as big as mine!
Druish princesses are attracted to money and power... and I have BOTH!

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05-27-2010, 05:01 PM
  #124
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... Sorry but that's one of the most hilarious lines I've ever read.

If you're gonna marry yourself to a team, you HAVE to marry yourself to players. What is the team made up of? Players, obviously. Are you going to marry yourself to the GM? To the owner? To Tim Leiweke?

As for the topic of the thread, this is just more proof that no matter how much certain people in here love Dean Lombardi, Dean's biggest fan will always be himself. He just can't help himself, HE has to be the star of the team -- not Kopitar, not Doughty, not any of the players who actually win the games and bring success to the organization. It's always about Dean. He doesn't want to actually negotiate and go back and forth, it's almost like that is beneath him. Accept HIS terms or you're dead to him. There is no such thing as loyalty to an organization or doing what is best for the organization at the time. What Dean's ego wants always comes before anything or anyone else.

So, I hope Frolov sticks it to the Kings for the rest of his career, and I have no doubt that, barring injury, he will. And we'll have a thread in here again, much like the thread with Cammalleri, where yet another player will leave the Kings and proceed to play well and go farther in the playoffs than the Kings ever will -- and yet there will be people who will still cling to their love for Lombardi and twist things around, and they'll say Frolov never wanted to stay, that he didn't have loyalty, etc. It's the same old boring and tired song.
Wow. How... um... reactionary.

Reacted to what, I'm not so sure.

There is very little in the line of actual comparisons that can be drawn between Frolov and Cammalleri. Also, the fans who are saying "see ya later greedy Fro", never liked Frolov in the first place. Its not a matter of people siding with Lombardi, its the fact that Frolov has ALWAYS been a divisive player. Some love him, some hate him. It has absolutely nothing to do with Lombardi.

I love him. I fall into the other group. The "I love Fro, but only for X dollars" group. Those dollars seem to be a near consensus ~3.5 million. Now you probably feel I (and Tony) are the ones in the group you refer to as "they'll say Frolov never wanted to stay, that he didn't have loyalty, etc", which is stupid, for lack of a better term.

There is such a thing as Lombardi being right you know. And he is right when you say you can only pay Frolov so much money. Frolov does not deserve 4-5million or more. He hasn't earned it. His place on the team doesn't support such a salary. And I am Frolov's biggest fan. I WANT him to play to the worth of 5 million, but he hasn't.

What is the alternative? Sign Fro at whatever the cost? It would seem that this is what you are indicating to be the proper route. The "I don't follow Lombardi and I am married to players because players are the team" conceptualization you have essentially put forth.

Expunge Cammy from your mind when thinking about Frolov. Read that ACTUAL things people are saying, instead of reading buzz words and jumping to conclusions that you feel are the same as Cammalleri. I won't go into why Cammy and Fro are different, because it should be obvious.

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05-27-2010, 05:03 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by DIEHARD the King fan View Post
Simply enough, is there anyone here, anyone, anyone (bueller??) that thinks Frolov's numbers wouldnt be considerably higher if he was playing with Kopitar most of the year as Smyth did? You are fooling yourself if you think his numbers wouldnt be significantly higher. Frolov was placed in a position where he couldn't come close to performing to his offensive potential and now that is being used against him.
You are right. Frolov would have scored more with Kopi than with Zues.

However, this speaks to why Frolov isn't worth 5+ million. 5+ million players are supposed to create and generate their own offense, not simply be the benefactors of potting goals by playing with good players. Otherwise Cheechoo would be making 5 million.

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