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Old
05-27-2010, 09:50 PM
  #51
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i just think that lisin needs to play with a center that know how to school like malkin or crosby maybe even staal

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05-27-2010, 10:16 PM
  #52
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i just think that lisin needs to play with a center that know how to school like malkin or crosby maybe even staal
Trade him to the Penguins!

Maybe we can get Kunitz or Letang back.

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05-27-2010, 10:34 PM
  #53
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I think Lisin can learn a lot from Freddie Sjostrom.

Good wheels, plays hurt, takes the body and kills penalties

If Lisin plays the PK he will have a job in the NHL

but I think he wants to be a goal scorer which means he will not be in the NHL. Certainly not a top 6 forward

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05-27-2010, 10:59 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by donpaulo View Post
I think Lisin can learn a lot from Freddie Sjostrom.

Good wheels, plays hurt, takes the body and kills penalties

If Lisin plays the PK he will have a job in the NHL

but I think he wants to be a goal scorer which means he will not be in the NHL. Certainly not a top 6 forward
Speed allows you to be a lot of different things in hockey. With speed you can be useful a number of different ways, but with a shot for example you can only be good at one thing... shooting.

Speed allows you to cut through the ice with the puck opening up a lot of space for team mates which can make you a good play-maker, if you have any defensive skills you can excel on the PK.

This guy has shooting which is very sporadic at best, it's hard but really lacks the accuracy.

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05-28-2010, 07:29 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by LyNX27 View Post
Speed allows you to be a lot of different things in hockey. With speed you can be useful a number of different ways, but with a shot for example you can only be good at one thing... shooting.

Speed allows you to cut through the ice with the puck opening up a lot of space for team mates which can make you a good play-maker, if you have any defensive skills you can excel on the PK.

This guy has shooting which is very sporadic at best, it's hard but really lacks the accuracy.
torts ruined the kid.

did he play great ? nope. did he look lost occasionally ? yup. did he score enough ? nope. but the same could be said for many guys last season. torts pretty much stuck with those guys though, yet with ringo- torts seemed to need to make an example out of him and in doing so, he assured that the kid would not succeed.

torts the clown got in his head and changed the way he played. criticized him to the media. mocked him, benched him, embarassed him, healthy scratched him and eventually made it so the kid couldnt do any of the things he excelled at with phoenix the year before- primarily, use his speed and his shot.

you dont try to change the way a kid plays, you maximize his strengths and minimize his weaknesses. torts did the opposite. you could see lisin wasnt reacting but over thinking. eventually he was trying to do too much which resulted in doing nothing. he was gripping the stick so tight, you could see it. he never looked relaxed. who could knowing that could be your last shift of the game and last game for a week ?

torts gave him no minutes. played him with stiffs on the 4th line. gave him no pp time. no pk time. told him to play defense and backcheck-which he did do and ended up with a respectable -1 overall, scolded him for every little mistake he made and then ended up not even playing him.

then they waived him. imo, they gave up on him waaaayyyyy too soon. he deserved better. he deserved a better chance and more than 50 games of getting jerked around.

in the end, the kids confidence was shot. torts ruined him.

period.

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05-28-2010, 08:04 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
torts ruined the kid.

did he play great ? nope. did he look lost occasionally ? yup. did he score enough ? nope. but the same could be said for many guys last season. torts pretty much stuck with those guys though, yet with ringo- torts seemed to need to make an example out of him and in doing so, he assured that the kid would not succeed.

torts the clown got in his head and changed the way he played. criticized him to the media. mocked him, benched him, embarassed him, healthy scratched him and eventually made it so the kid couldnt do any of the things he excelled at with phoenix the year before- primarily, use his speed and his shot.

you dont try to change the way a kid plays, you maximize his strengths and minimize his weaknesses. torts did the opposite. you could see lisin wasnt reacting but over thinking. eventually he was trying to do too much which resulted in doing nothing. he was gripping the stick so tight, you could see it. he never looked relaxed. who could knowing that could be your last shift of the game and last game for a week ?

torts gave him no minutes. played him with stiffs on the 4th line. gave him no pp time. no pk time. told him to play defense and backcheck-which he did do and ended up with a respectable -1 overall, scolded him for every little mistake he made and then ended up not even playing him.

then they waived him. imo, they gave up on him waaaayyyyy too soon. he deserved better. he deserved a better chance and more than 50 games of getting jerked around.

in the end, the kids confidence was shot. torts ruined him.

period.
Good players play well and are not dependent on a good coach but if you would rather blame the coach, that's fine.

Why didn't Torts ruin Gaborik or Dubinsky or Staal or Callahan or Anisimov or...? Perhaps they have the talent to overcome bad coaching. Who knows?

You bemoan his lack of playing time, failing to see that when one is an unproven commodity, one must earn playing time, as Anisimov did. You don't just give it to him and pray for good results. That's truly terrible coaching.

In any case, at least you have admitted that he is ruined so you can join us in the idea that he should be gone. There is no need to keep a player who has been ruined.

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05-28-2010, 08:07 AM
  #57
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Reminds me of Hossa's brother, whatever his first name was. He had that one great move for the shoot out but had this big problem playing hockey at the same time the other team was playing.
Marcel Hossa was a far superior all-around player in comparison with Lisin. He was never a negative factor. He just couldn't finish, but he could keep the opposing team bottled up with excellent forechecking and puck control.

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05-28-2010, 08:13 AM
  #58
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Korpikoski was a terrible pick to begin with, it all went downhill from there. I guess Sather got what he deserved by trading Leetch.

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05-28-2010, 08:21 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Good players play well and are not dependent on a good coach but if you would rather blame the coach, that's fine.

Why didn't Torts ruin Gaborik or Dubinsky or Staal or Callahan or Anisimov or...? Perhaps they have the talent to overcome bad coaching. Who knows?

You bemoan his lack of playing time, failing to see that when one is an unproven commodity, one must earn playing time, as Anisimov did. You don't just give it to him and pray for good results. That's truly terrible coaching.

In any case, at least you have admitted that he is ruined so you can join us in the idea that he should be gone. There is no need to keep a player who has been ruined.
On this one I'm going to side with ODC, Lisin did have some decent showings when given a little time actually playing! But only to be negated and put back on the bench, exactly as if he was being made an example of. Just noting though that most of Lisin's success which I would like to see him continue was going top speed at the net and drawing defenders with him, regardless of who you are and your playing ability if you can carry that puck to the net, things WILL happen.

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05-28-2010, 08:53 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by LyNX27 View Post
On this one I'm going to side with ODC, Lisin did have some decent showings when given a little time actually playing! But only to be negated and put back on the bench, exactly as if he was being made an example of. Just noting though that most of Lisin's success which I would like to see him continue was going top speed at the net and drawing defenders with him, regardless of who you are and your playing ability if you can carry that puck to the net, things WILL happen.
You mean when he played with Gaborik and Prospal and picked up a few secondary assists by being on the ice with our two best forwards? Who didnt benefit from the Gaborik effect? Its why we're here today talking as if Erik Christensen is a good player.

What I find particularly funny is how odc was singing Torts' praises months ago saying how he was forcing Lisin to become a better all-around player, while also using that as an excuse for his ineptitude on the offensive end. Now, Torts ruined the kid.

Sometimes its noones fault. Sometimes a prospect with some tools just isnt an NHL player. As chosen said, good players play no matter where they are in the lineup. Look at Anisimov and how he played well with 4th liners the last 15-20 games this season. Anisimov is a good player. Enver Lisin is not. For every good play he made (usually with his speed), he'd follow it with two bad plays no matter where he was in the lineup.

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05-28-2010, 09:24 AM
  #61
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You mean when he played with Gaborik and Prospal and picked up a few secondary assists by being on the ice with our two best forwards? Who didnt benefit from the Gaborik effect? Its why we're here today talking as if Erik Christensen is a good player.

What I find particularly funny is how odc was singing Torts' praises months ago saying how he was forcing Lisin to become a better all-around player, while also using that as an excuse for his ineptitude on the offensive end. Now, Torts ruined the kid.

Sometimes its noones fault. Sometimes a prospect with some tools just isnt an NHL player. As chosen said, good players play no matter where they are in the lineup. Look at Anisimov and how he played well with 4th liners the last 15-20 games this season. Anisimov is a good player. Enver Lisin is not. For every good play he made (usually with his speed), he'd follow it with two bad plays no matter where he was in the lineup.
Only 2 of his assists had anything to do with Gaborik and Prospal.

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05-28-2010, 10:11 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
You mean when he played with Gaborik and Prospal and picked up a few secondary assists by being on the ice with our two best forwards? Who didnt benefit from the Gaborik effect? Its why we're here today talking as if Erik Christensen is a good player.

What I find particularly funny is how odc was singing Torts' praises months ago saying how he was forcing Lisin to become a better all-around player, while also using that as an excuse for his ineptitude on the offensive end. Now, Torts ruined the kid.

Sometimes its noones fault. Sometimes a prospect with some tools just isnt an NHL player. As chosen said, good players play no matter where they are in the lineup. Look at Anisimov and how he played well with 4th liners the last 15-20 games this season. Anisimov is a good player. Enver Lisin is not. For every good play he made (usually with his speed), he'd follow it with two bad plays no matter where he was in the lineup.
wrong again.

i never, ever said that. i said this

torts told lisin, in order for you to get minutes, you need to sharpen up your play in all zones. he was given a mandate, become a better 2 way player.and he did that. he actually became a decent back checker, finished his checks, and played with fire. one thing you can never say about him is he took shifts off. in fact, there were game where he was our best player with his energy and speed.

his biggest problem was he could finish his chances. he dorked alot of shots and didnt finish plays. the sure sign of a player playign with no confidence.

but saying torts made him a better player ? nope. he tried to change the kid and in doing so, he made him worse at what he was good at when he arrived and better at stuff that ultimately didnt help him get a fair chance to play.

torts told him to change his play. he did. and still, the clown stuck him in the behind.

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05-28-2010, 10:21 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
wrong again.

i never, ever said that. i said this

torts told lisin, in order for you to get minutes, you need to sharpen up your play in all zones. he was given a mandate, become a better 2 way player.and he did that. he actually became a decent back checker, finished his checks, and played with fire. one thing you can never say about him is he took shifts off. in fact, there were game where he was our best player with his energy and speed.

his biggest problem was he could finish his chances. he dorked alot of shots and didnt finish plays. the sure sign of a player playign with no confidence.

but saying torts made him a better player ? nope. he tried to change the kid and in doing so, he made him worse at what he was good at when he arrived and better at stuff that ultimately didnt help him get a fair chance to play.

torts told him to change his play. he did. and still, the clown stuck him in the behind.
Before he changed his play: didn't score a whole lot, with limited minutes.

Told, you can earn minutes by changing your play to become an all around player. Earned a few (not a lot) more minutes.

Results: didn't score a whole lot.

Yep, torts REALLY ruined him.

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05-28-2010, 10:33 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
wrong again.

i never, ever said that. i said this

torts told lisin, in order for you to get minutes, you need to sharpen up your play in all zones. he was given a mandate, become a better 2 way player.and he did that. he actually became a decent back checker, finished his checks, and played with fire. one thing you can never say about him is he took shifts off. in fact, there were game where he was our best player with his energy and speed.

his biggest problem was he could finish his chances. he dorked alot of shots and didnt finish plays. the sure sign of a player playign with no confidence.

but saying torts made him a better player ? nope. he tried to change the kid and in doing so, he made him worse at what he was good at when he arrived and better at stuff that ultimately didnt help him get a fair chance to play.

torts told him to change his play. he did. and still, the clown stuck him in the behind.
I just cant kill Torts here. I can kill him on a lot of other things, but not here.

Theres certain players that are so offensively gifted that coaches can deal with a lack of interest in the defensive end...Ilya Kovalchuk comes to mind. Enver Lisin couldnt even hold Kovalchuk's jock, and his offensive game, which was ridiculously overhyped by you to begin with, was lacking in the first place. Thats why I cant kill Torts for demanding he pay more attention to the defensive side of the puck in order to get more ice-time. The sad truth is that Lisin wound up being a failure on each side of the puck. No matter who you want to blame that on, the one constant this season is that Lisin's game was clearly lacking on all fronts.

The bolded part is the kind of ridiculous hyperbole that got you in trouble in the first place with Lisin. If that was the criteria for being the best player in games, then Ryan Callahan would be a Hart trophy finalist.

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05-28-2010, 10:33 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
torts ruined the kid.

did he play great ? nope. did he look lost occasionally ? yup. did he score enough ? nope. but the same could be said for many guys last season. torts pretty much stuck with those guys though, yet with ringo- torts seemed to need to make an example out of him and in doing so, he assured that the kid would not succeed.

torts the clown got in his head and changed the way he played. criticized him to the media. mocked him, benched him, embarassed him, healthy scratched him and eventually made it so the kid couldnt do any of the things he excelled at with phoenix the year before- primarily, use his speed and his shot.

you dont try to change the way a kid plays, you maximize his strengths and minimize his weaknesses. torts did the opposite. you could see lisin wasnt reacting but over thinking. eventually he was trying to do too much which resulted in doing nothing. he was gripping the stick so tight, you could see it. he never looked relaxed. who could knowing that could be your last shift of the game and last game for a week ?

torts gave him no minutes. played him with stiffs on the 4th line. gave him no pp time. no pk time. told him to play defense and backcheck-which he did do and ended up with a respectable -1 overall, scolded him for every little mistake he made and then ended up not even playing him.

then they waived him. imo, they gave up on him waaaayyyyy too soon. he deserved better. he deserved a better chance and more than 50 games of getting jerked around.

in the end, the kids confidence was shot. torts ruined him.

period.
reading your posts you would think he was a little leaguer who got yelled at by his coach and now he told his dad he doesn't want to play anymore .

All those numbers he didn't put up before he got here were probably torts' fault too right?

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