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Kulemin talks at standstill: Kulemin wants NHL contract.

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Old
05-28-2010, 09:06 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by mbrooks View Post
If Grabovski is worth 2.9M per season Kulemin should get $4M, but that is not the point I guess.

I was assuming Kulemin is a $3M guy, he is the Leafs best defensive forward, and I think that has got to count for something.
That, he is not.

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05-28-2010, 09:07 AM
  #27
daveleaf
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Probably the Leafs most complete 2 way forward but he is not worth 3mill a year but he will get that in the KHL. If he scored 25+ goals it would be a no-brainer. I worry as time goes on the more Russians you have on your team the more they will be waving the KHL card to their gm's. Hudler left for a year, maybe the Leafs should let him walk for a year. From the piece they put on Hockey Night In Canada about the KHL, there are as many horror stories and successes.

I worry we may loose this guy for a year. Monster was signed pretty quickly. You can tell he is a team guy. Kullemin lays it all on the line but I wonder why he hasn't signed already. I don't think it looks good. It's too bad-he really is a fine player.

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05-28-2010, 09:07 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by andymack1986 View Post
Jere Lehtinen is one of the best defensive forwards in the league and has won the Selke Trophy three times. He is paid $1.5M, with $1M in bonuses. That seems like a good benchmark.
Lehtinen is well past his prime and he didn't even score 10 goals last year or the year before so that's that.

Do people not realize that with young players you also have to pay a bit for potential in addition with their actual worth?

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05-28-2010, 09:10 AM
  #29
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There are rumours Kulemin is seeking $3 million US or higher
It's that Higher, that is the unknown and the wild card KHL rumour, I think he's as good as Grabovski and should be making around the same money.

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05-28-2010, 09:11 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by BrannigansLaw View Post
Lehtinen is well past his prime and he didn't even score 10 goals last year or the year before so that's that.

Do people not realize that with young players you also have to pay a bit for potential in addition with their actual worth?
You have to watch yourself a little bit. If you were to start to throw all kinds of money out for potential then your cap goes to crap. He is a good player but he is not worth 3mill. Maybe an escalating contract but really, he has had one solid year. Do you throw the bank at that?

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05-28-2010, 09:12 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Budsfan View Post
It's that Higher, that is the unknown and the wild card KHL rumour, I think he's as good as Grabovski and should be making around the same money.
You think 3mill a year then?

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05-28-2010, 09:12 AM
  #32
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RFA players with similar point production have signed for less in past years

Brandon Dubinsky/41 PTS 2 years at 1.8M
LaRose/31 PTS 2 years at 1.7M
and callahan/40 PTS 2 years 2.3 M

We cant overpay him just because he threatens to go to the KHL

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05-28-2010, 09:13 AM
  #33
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It'll get done.

Burke's stance is all part of normal negotiating, he doesn't want to give in too quick.

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05-28-2010, 09:14 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daveleaf View Post
You have to watch yourself a little bit. If you were to start to throw all kinds of money out for potential then your cap goes to crap. He is a good player but he is not worth 3mill. Maybe an escalating contract but really, he has had one solid year. Do you throw the bank at that?
I wouldn't call 3 million throwing the bank at Kulemin. I think he will be worth that easily by the end of next year.

However, if he is asking for more than 3 mil, I do think that it would be getting pretty ridiculous and that 3 million should be the absolute maximum.

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05-28-2010, 09:14 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by habhater View Post
RFA players with similar point production have signed for less in past years

Brandon Dubinsky/41 PTS 2 years at 1.8M
LaRose/31 PTS 2 years at 1.7M
and callahan/40 PTS 2 years 2.3 M

We cant overpay him just because he threatens to go to the KHL
I was going to ask if anyone had stats on similar players. I think 2.5 for three years is more than fair for this player. I wouldn't worry about Grabovski, I don't see him on this team any longer.

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05-28-2010, 09:15 AM
  #36
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Kulemin is very important to our club given where we are now.

Hopefully they figure it out.

Maybe he gets a contract at a value like what we think he's worth (~2 mill) and performance based bonuses that could bring him up to what he wants if he actually performs to the level he thinks he can.

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05-28-2010, 09:17 AM
  #37
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he looked so good at the end of the year and I thought on verge of taking that next step towards being a legit top 6 possibily top 3 forward

would really suck to lose him at this point and hope they can come to an agreement.

I'd be willing to pay 3 million

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05-28-2010, 09:18 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrannigansLaw View Post
I wouldn't call 3 million throwing the bank at Kulemin. I think he will be worth that easily by the end of next year.

However, if he is asking for more than 3 mil, I do think that it would be getting pretty ridiculous and that 3 million should be the absolute maximum.
To me 3mill sounds steep. I think Burke gets a top three forward and Kullemin goes into the 2nd line. There's always that notion that GM' throw out there that because TO is so weak these players are getting first line minutes where they would normally get 2nd or third line minutes on a more competitive team. I don't think he gives him 3 but I may be wrong. 2.5 seems like a good number and he may be on the 2nd line next year.

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05-28-2010, 09:21 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by daveleaf View Post
You think 3mill a year then?
Yes I do, he has been arguably our best forward at times and plays a tough role player, especially in the corners.

He plays on the first line with Bozak and Kessel and doesn't look out of place and then drops back to play with Gabovski when playing 4 on 4.

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05-28-2010, 09:22 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Spasmic Dan View Post
A longer term deal at 3 mil per year might work. In the short term, though, I don't think he's earned it yet. He'll probably be worth at least that in a few years.

This makes me nervous. We really can't afford to lose this guy. Something will probably get done though as it seems like he wants to stay in the NHL.
This is where my opinion is as well.

Burke doens't like long contracts (so he says). My guess is Burke is offering 2-2.5mil over a 2 year contract.

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05-28-2010, 09:23 AM
  #41
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Thats bad news, I really like Kuli. I don't think we'll be seeing too many Russian players on this team if the KHL was mentioned by the agent to Burke. I believe one of Burkes mantra's is if he can't sign them before arbitration then he'll trade them.

So a sign and trade happening? Kuli @ $3 million + Kaberle for Jordan Staal, 1st and 4th.


Last edited by Morguee: 05-28-2010 at 01:20 PM.
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05-28-2010, 09:23 AM
  #42
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The difficulty with Kulemin is two fold as I see it ..

His stats and performance to date would set his contract price at one $$$ rate, but as a young power forward his contribution often goes beyond the goals and assists, as he is strong defensively and strong on the puck both protecting and freeing it for his teammates. On many nights last season producing points or not he was Leafs best forward and involved in the play, particularly in the second half and down the stretch.. He is a player that seems to fit in on many lines playing different roles and makes those around him more effective.

We saw this happen in Boston last season Kessel was offered $3.75 mil X 3 deal similar to David Krejci based on his stats, and then Milan Lucic got his new 3 year $12.25 mil deal (averaging a little over $4.0 mil per season) based on stats of

2008-09 - Boston Bruins - NHL .. 72 games 17 goals 25 assists 42 points 136 pims ..

Well Kulemin stats for last season were.

2009-10 - Toronto Maple Leafs - NHL .. 78 games 16 goals 20 assists 36 points 16 pims.

Now clearly Lucic is not a comparable when it comes to fitting part of his game, but the other aspects including the points would suggest that the $3 mil Kulemin is requesting are not that far from being reasonable.

There is always that threat of a KHL offer for Russian players as both Kovy and Frolov got serious offers from the KHL yesterday and that will even though they along with Kulemin, desire to play in the NHL, will play a part in the negotiating process none the less.

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05-28-2010, 09:25 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Morguee View Post
Thats bad news, I really like Kuli. I don't think we'll be seeing to many Russian players on this team if the KHL was mentioned by the agent to Burke. I believe on of Burkes matra's is if he can't sign them before arbitration then he'll trade them.

So a sign and trade happening? Kuli @ $3 million + Kaberle for Jordan Staal, 1st and 4th.
Best trade deal I have ever heard on here.

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05-28-2010, 09:25 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by daveleaf View Post
Best trade deal I have ever heard on here.
Are you saying it lacks originality?

Edit: I know it has probably been proposed atleast once for every dollar Kuli is asking for.

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05-28-2010, 09:28 AM
  #45
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Kulemin's reputation is exceeding his actual performance. He's a decent hockey player with potential, but he isn't worth anything close to 3 million at this point. He's not great defensively, he's simply capable. He works hard, but he isn't a fantastic grinder. He has shown some offensive abilities, but hasn't produced. Kulemin doesn't have anything that truly stands out beyond his stats. He isn't a good fighter, he isn't a defensive specialist, he isn't a physical force and he isn't a leader. $2.5 is an overpayment, he should come in at $2 mill or less if he's getting market value.

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05-28-2010, 09:29 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Morguee View Post
Are you saying it lacks originality?
No. I would take it in a heart beat and run. Honestly, best proposal from both ends I have heard in a while. Malkin likes Kullemin and they could use him and Kaberle. Staal we could let develop into our first line centre and let Bozak develop as a #2 without the pressure of being a #1. We would have a much better penalty kill and a guy that would be willing to sit in front of the net. Not to mention picking up a first round pic.

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05-28-2010, 09:30 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by EazyB97 View Post
Kulemin's reputation is exceeding his actual performance. He's a decent hockey player with potential, but he isn't worth anything close to 3 million at this point. He's not great defensively, he's simply capable. He works hard, but he isn't a fantastic grinder. He has shown some offensive abilities, but hasn't produced. Kulemin doesn't have anything that truly stands out beyond his stats. He isn't a good fighter, he isn't a defensive specialist, he isn't a physical force and he isn't a leader. $2.5 is an overpayment, he should come in at $2 mill or less if he's getting market value.
Guy has a point...fantastic grinder but still a developing winger. I think 2.5 is an over payment.

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05-28-2010, 09:31 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by daveleaf View Post
No. I would take it in a heart beat and run. Honestly, best proposal from both ends I have heard in a while. Malkin likes Kullemin and they could use him and Kaberle. Staal we could let develop into our first line centre and let Bozak develop as a #2 without the pressure of being a #1. We would have a much better penalty kill and a guy that would be willing to sit in front of the net. Not to mention picking up a first round pic.
Well then I'll take the compliment and just shut up then.

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05-28-2010, 09:32 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by daveleaf View Post
Best trade deal I have ever heard on here.
why would a team with cap issues trade for a player that is asking for more then what he is worth? If Kulemin and Staal are getting paid relatively the same the Pens are staying with Staal

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05-28-2010, 09:32 AM
  #50
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$3M is too high.
$2.3mil should be the max, which would be the same as ryan callahan.

Even david backes only makes $2.5mil.

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