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Kulemin talks at standstill: Kulemin wants NHL contract.

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Old
05-28-2010, 01:14 PM
  #101
geary17
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Love Kulemin, but he isn't worth $3M. Ryan Callahan got like $2.5M with better stats, and no one else comparable for much more than $2M. Burke won't do it.

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05-28-2010, 01:16 PM
  #102
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In a capped system, overpayment kills.

I'd love to see Kulemin back, I think he's a super player.

btw on any tiered deal, it's better for us to pay the money up front:

ie 3, 3, 2.75, 2.25, rather than the other way around because it increases trade value late in the contract.

just sayin....

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05-28-2010, 01:17 PM
  #103
Sterling31
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Damn.
this is the thread i didnt want to see. Kule contract talks not going well.

This is the thing about the leafs (that i dont like). they have some 2nd to 3rd line players , who are playing 1st/2nd line minutes; who think they deserve 1st line pay.

I would be happy to play Kule on the 2nd line in the future; when we get some more top 6 talent.

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05-28-2010, 01:19 PM
  #104
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well he certainly deserves every penny.

It really is not his fault he was handicapped earlier in the year with such poor TOI and linemates.

He helped make that first line IMO.

Would be such a shame to not sign him. Give him 3 mil over 5 years. This way if he improves a lot (which I say he will) 3 mil per year will be a bargain. Even if his game stays what it is now he is still a very effective player...I really don't see him NOT improving offensively though.

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05-28-2010, 01:22 PM
  #105
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if somone gives him an offersheet up 3.5mill or more
we get a first round pick in return

i'd rather have kuley on my team anyday
but i realisticaly see a couple teams bringing some offer sheets to snag kuley!

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05-28-2010, 01:23 PM
  #106
Adversary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrannigansLaw View Post
Lehtinen is well past his prime and he didn't even score 10 goals last year or the year before so that's that.

Do people not realize that with young players you also have to pay a bit for potential in addition with their actual worth?
granted, this is correct however take a look around the league and see what youngish 35 point defensive players are making.

Kulemin has excellent potential, but 3m + is way too expensive to gamble on what he will become.

3.5 would be for a dominating defensive 35 point forward. 1.5 - 2.1 is where I see Kulemin's worth being for 3 years.

After that, he will be 26-27 and if he has shown the improvement, we can sign him at 3m - 3.5m.

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05-28-2010, 01:25 PM
  #107
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This is a very unfortunate situation for the Maple Leafs organization.

On one hand you don't want to overpay for Kulemin but on the other you have a fan favorite in a very frustrated fan base. I won't particularly mind if Burke lets Kulemin walk but if he does we better be getting something better than Torres to watch in his roster slot next year.

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05-28-2010, 01:31 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by 81Leafs50 View Post
what kind of precedent?
Over payment for underacheiving.

You do not pay for potential, unless that potential is undeniable.

What would you pay Stalberg after giving Kulemin 3.5M? Stalberg scored at approx the same clip as Kulemin last year, do you give him 3.5M as well?

The average salary in a capped NHL has to be under 2.5M for an average player.

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05-28-2010, 01:40 PM
  #109
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The problem here, like a thread I started the other day (didn't get much response) about drafting Russian players, The KHL is willing to over pay for their home grown talent and either we match or they will walk but like I said some draft choices may slide and we may be able to get a good young player but the threat of them going to the KHL is there.

I might also add that most players want to play in the NHL and I think Kulemin wants to stay in Toronto to play in the NHL and if I remember correctly he even said so in an interview and maybe all this is just a ploy, to get a better contract but in the end I think he will re-sign here

Reference..... http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=780030

Quote:
TORONTO -- The names Alexander Radulov and Nikita Filatov won't get mentioned a whole lot this week at the NHL Scouting Combine, but their specter certainly hangs over more than a few teams and top prospects.

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Old
05-28-2010, 01:44 PM
  #110
Dutch Dreams
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Originally Posted by habhater View Post
RFA players with similar point production have signed for less in past years

Brandon Dubinsky/41 PTS 2 years at 1.8M
LaRose/31 PTS 2 years at 1.7M
and callahan/40 PTS 2 years 2.3 M

We cant overpay him just because he threatens to go to the KHL
Perfect comparison. I've always though this guy's max range would be between 1.75-2.25, exactly within the parameters of comparable guys like you've mentioned, though Kulemin probably has more offensive upside than all those.

Grabovski is worth 3 million. He put up 50 points in his rookie season and could only improve. He was also on pace for about as much this season.

This is just really too bad. I think Kulemin was our best forward pretty much every game last year. This would be a huge loss for us. Kulemin arguably slots in as one of our top-six forwards, and he's got that immense two-way game, something we lack in our others - Stalberg, Kessel, etc... and it's not like we would get any significant return if he decides he wants to sign in the KHL.

I was thinking earlier this month maybe we could take advantage of this guy's RFA year and give him a Grebeshkov like contract. Grebeshkov had quite a dominant year the year before last with Edmonton and got a one year, 3.15 million dollar contract, maybe we could give Kulemin a one year and burn the final year of his RFA eligibility while giving him closer to what he, or his agent, wants, but only for one year, so his performance and it's effect on the cap is negligible if not lived up to anyways.

Of anything that happens this season I just hope that Kulemin gets signed. Even the return for Kaberle interests me less... my absolute favorite player on this team and I'm saddened that news is coming out like this, really saddened. He really adds to the identity of this team. Seems to be able to knock guys off the puck at will, has shown glimpses of vision, and has a blistering shot I think we haven't seen near the best of. Really compliments our more skill players off the wing. He's definitely capable of scoring 20-25 goals next season.

I really don't know what to say, other than who could possibly replace this guy? And a replacement would be necessary as he does arguably represent a large part of our top-six and guys like Stalberg/Caputi definitely won't be able to produce/perform up to par to him. Man, **** this guy what an *******. Who knows what's happening behind the scenes, may be blown out of proportion, it's the SUN anyways, the media in general... but a direct quote from Burke exclaiming that it's at a level at which he's not ready to pay, that's ridiculous man. Could we see another Moore scenario here? Jesus, what a bunch of losers man. We've got the cap now fools... you can't just ask for whatever....

Here's a link that may put this into perspective....

http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey...-around-in-t-o

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05-28-2010, 01:45 PM
  #111
Nasty Nazem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adversary View Post
Over payment for underacheiving.

You do not pay for potential, unless that potential is undeniable.

What would you pay Stalberg after giving Kulemin 3.5M? Stalberg scored at approx the same clip as Kulemin last year, do you give him 3.5M as well?

The average salary in a capped NHL has to be under 2.5M for an average player.
It should be 2 at most. Dubinsky plays a similar game and put up similar points and got 1.75. Kulemin can ask money for the all "intangibles" but forwards get paid the most based on their scoring.

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05-28-2010, 01:51 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Nasty Nazem View Post
It should be 2 at most. Dubinsky plays a similar game and put up similar points and got 1.75. Kulemin can ask money for the all "intangibles" but forwards get paid the most based on their scoring.
So should defensemen! Ask Ken Holland

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05-28-2010, 01:53 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by winston14 View Post
if somone gives him an offersheet up 3.5mill or more
we get a first round pick in return

i'd rather have kuley on my team anyday
but i realisticaly see a couple teams bringing some offer sheets to snag kuley!
Realistically, we are a long way from the day where offer sheets can be tendered.

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05-28-2010, 02:14 PM
  #114
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Who else are we going to get to do his job if he walks? Trade for Hartnell and his 4.2 million dollar salary? Or Malone and his 4.5 million dollar salary? Maybe we can trade for the much-coveted Wayne Simmonds?

Guys like Kulemin are obviously in high-demand and the salaries of the above players depict that fairly well - in addition to the high-regard with which Simmonds is held. If Kulemin wants 3 million, give him 3 million.

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05-28-2010, 02:28 PM
  #115
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I'd rather do something like 2.5, 2.5, 3.5

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05-28-2010, 02:29 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Budsfan View Post
The problem here, like a thread I started the other day (didn't get much response) about drafting Russian players, The KHL is willing to over pay for their home grown talent and either we match or they will walk but like I said some draft choices may slide and we may be able to get a good young player but the threat of them going to the KHL is there.

I might also add that most players want to play in the NHL and I think Kulemin wants to stay in Toronto to play in the NHL and if I remember correctly he even said so in an interview and maybe all this is just a ploy, to get a better contract but in the end I think he will re-sign here

Reference..... http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=780030
Yesterday TSN reported that Frolov got a KHL offer and this is what LA GM had to say.

Quote:
Sovsports is also reporting that SKA St Petersburg also made an offer to Los Angeles Kings' forward Alexander Frolov.

While Kings general manager Dean Lombardi didn't comment on the report when he appeared on an Edmonton radio station on Wednesday, he didn't sound optimistic he can re-sign Frolov at the terms the Russian forward is expecting.

Lombardi also knows the KHL represents a very real option for Frolov and other European players.

"The other thing we're confronting here, don't forget, is the KHL, and they're offering an awful lot of money, tax-free," Lombardi told the radio station. "It's almost like the WHA days, where the difference in dollars is huge."

"I talked to him at the end of the year, and I said to myself, 'This is no different than when Bobby Hull left.' I'm sure he wanted to stay in the NHL, but when the money is that much different, you can't blame him."

Full Story: http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=322799
So the KHL for Russian players is a real threat and valid concern, when you talking big $$$ and tax-free to boot.

Personally I have always been a little concerned when it came to Kulemin despite being a big fan about the KHL and how it might effect the Leafs longterm.

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Old
05-28-2010, 02:32 PM
  #117
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Kulemin's market value right now is about 1.8 Millions per year, what happens if we give him 3 Millions/year and he gets 38 points next year ?

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05-28-2010, 02:39 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by 080 View Post
Who else are we going to get to do his job if he walks? Trade for Hartnell and his 4.2 million dollar salary? Or Malone and his 4.5 million dollar salary? Maybe we can trade for the much-coveted Wayne Simmonds?

Guys like Kulemin are obviously in high-demand and the salaries of the above players depict that fairly well - in addition to the high-regard with which Simmonds is held. If Kulemin wants 3 million, give him 3 million.
These are called dangerous precedents and what the Leafs must avoid. Grabowski's contract was a dangerous precedent and now is probably what in part Kulemin is looking at. The culture of earning your contract and not being entitled to it must be established.

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05-28-2010, 02:44 PM
  #119
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Burke **** the bed with grabovski. Offcourse he deserves as much if not more then grabovski! Everyone in the hockey world knows that.

Saying that, 2 mistakes does not make 1 right, so I like that burke is not bulking at it either. He knows he screwed up with grabo but he won't be FORCED to make another.

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05-28-2010, 02:51 PM
  #120
The Mauve Avenger
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This is somewhat concerning, but I'm not totally surprised by this. There are always going to be these kind of talks during negotiations.

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05-28-2010, 02:52 PM
  #121
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i dont know why there is so much hate for grabovski around here. You never see anything but praise for a guy like Filppula, and Grabo is a similar type player, if not better, and his contract is worse than Grabo's.

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05-28-2010, 02:59 PM
  #122
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This is somewhat concerning, but I'm not totally surprised by this. There are always going to be these kind of talks during negotiations.
Agreed, I hope they can get something done as I really like Kulemin but 3.0 million is way high for him.

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05-28-2010, 03:01 PM
  #123
Budsfan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Yesterday TSN reported that Frolov got a KHL offer and this is what LA GM had to say.



So the KHL for Russian players is a real threat and valid concern, when you talking big $$$ and tax-free to boot.

Personally I have always been a little concerned when it came to Kulemin despite being a big fan about the KHL and how it might effect the Leafs longterm.
I agree, the threat is there but I think most players want to play in the NHL and as I said, he will probably re-sign here unless there is a big dollar difference, not sure if he can make more here in endorsements to equal what KHL teams can offer but things like pensions and other monies, could play into it as well.

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05-28-2010, 04:03 PM
  #124
takumi111
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and I was going to put 'Kulemin' on my blank home jersey, too

you're breaking my heart Kuli

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05-28-2010, 04:10 PM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Yesterday TSN reported that Frolov got a KHL offer and this is what LA GM had to say.



So the KHL for Russian players is a real threat and valid concern, when you talking big $$$ and tax-free to boot.

Personally I have always been a little concerned when it came to Kulemin despite being a big fan about the KHL and how it might effect the Leafs longterm.
A far as I know Russia has an income tax.

Frolov plays his card, Lombardi plays his. The Red Wings called Hudler's bluff and he came back after one season, guess that people carrying your bags and four star hotels can possibly mean something.

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