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Old
05-29-2010, 01:35 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by parachutist View Post
While I agree that we severely overrated Higgins when he was a HAB, now you are quite underestimating him! Higgins is better than Pyatt period. While Pyatt has great speed and is a good PKer, Higgins wins more battles along the boards and I'm sure most teams would pick him ahead of Pyatt.
One of them is on a period of improvement as a player and his career, while the other one is degrading in play and career. I'll take the former.

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05-29-2010, 01:55 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by King Kool Aid View Post
No.................becuase making the playoffs is a team accomplishment, not an individual accomplishment. Good thing for the Habs that they didn't have to rely solely on Gomez production to make the playoffs!


No, because 42 goals and 86 points is much more in line with a $7.5 million per year contract than is paying a player $8 Million per year for 12 goals and 59 points (of course we can't overlook Gomez' contribution of 2 playoff goals in 19 playoff games - especially in an eliminatiomn series where his team can't buy a goal).

There's an interesting statistic in hockey called the "assist". Funny and convenient that you don't mention this statistic, because without assists, there wouldn't be many goals. Gomez led our team in assists in the playoffs by a significant amount.

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05-29-2010, 02:14 PM
  #28
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i want it to happen just because it would be funny.

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05-29-2010, 02:53 PM
  #29
Melvin Udall
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Originally Posted by Schooner Guy View Post
There's an interesting statistic in hockey called the "assist". Funny and convenient that you don't mention this statistic, because without assists, there wouldn't be many goals. Gomez led our team in assists in the playoffs by a significant amount.
Yeah, that is interesting......So why didn't the Habs $8 million man get some "assists" in the 3 games vs Flyers when they were shut out and needed goals?


After Habs elimination more than 1 poster on this board pointed out that the NHL credits up to 2 assists on each goal and by at least some observations, many of Gomez' "assists" appeared to be "secondary" in nature.


Interesting that throughout 3 rounds of the playoffs - Halak, Cammy, Gionta, Gill, Georges, and even Hammer and Spacek etc repeatedly received either a 3 star selection - or at least honourable mention -Gomez' name rarely came up for those mentions - except on HNIC pregame vs Philly when they pointed out that Gomez, Pleks and AK were (in too many games) playoff scoring no-shows!

Guess the broadcasters on HNIC saw something about Gomez' playoff performance that you apparently (conveniently ?) didn't see!

To his credit Gomez did get 1 goal in Habs 1st playoff game 2010 and 1 goal in their last playoff game - both loses..........HOW ABOUT THAT!


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05-29-2010, 04:53 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by King Kool Aid View Post
Yeah, that is interesting......So why didn't the Habs $8 million man get some "assists" in the 3 games vs Flyers when they were shut out and needed goals?


After Habs elimination more than 1 poster on this board pointed out that the NHL credits up to 2 assists on each goal and by at least some observations, many of Gomez' "assists" appeared to be "secondary" in nature.


Interesting that throughout 3 rounds of the playoffs - Halak, Cammy, Gionta, Gill, Georges, and even Hammer and Spacek etc repeatedly received either a 3 star selection - or at least honourable mention -Gomez' name rarely came up for those mentions - except on HNIC pregame vs Philly when they pointed out that Gomez, Pleks and AK were (in too many games) playoff scoring no-shows!

Guess the broadcasters on HNIC saw something about Gomez' playoff performance that you apparently (conveniently ?) didn't see!

To his credit Gomez did get 1 goal in Habs 1st playoff game 2010 and 1 goal in their last playoff game - both loses..........HOW ABOUT THAT!


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What a pure load of garbage. Gomez's speed coming through the middle and his ability to negate the trap was the single most important factor in these playoffs. (other than maybe the Gill/Gorges/Halak combo) You remove Gomez you remove our ability to gain the zone. Period.

He was one of if not THE most important factor on the ice imo. There is more to hockey than scoring goals you know. And wtf is wrong with a second assist? It's worth just as much as a goal.

Oh yeah, he also had this gem in game 7. WIthout him, forget about facing Pittsburgh.

Not too many players in the league can make this pass.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQvIkxaTD54

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05-29-2010, 05:10 PM
  #31
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What a pure load of garbage. Gomez's speed coming through the middle and his ability to negate the trap was the single most important factor in these playoffs. (other than maybe the Gill/Gorges/Halak combo) You remove Gomez you remove our ability to gain the zone. Period.

He was one of if not THE most important factor on the ice imo. There is more to hockey than scoring goals you know. And wtf is wrong with a second assist? It's worth just as much as a goal.

Oh yeah, he also had this gem in game 7. WIthout him, forget about facing Pittsburgh.

Not too many players in the league can make this pass.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQvIkxaTD54
Yep....that was an amazing pass!

People crap all over Gomez because of his contract....not because of his play. He's our best centre, he's very solid at both ends of the ice, and he played on top unit of both special teams throughout the playoffs. Sure his salary sucks but quality Top 6 centres in their prime sure are hard to acquire in this league.

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05-29-2010, 05:25 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Jigger77 View Post
What a pure load of garbage. Gomez's speed coming through the middle and his ability to negate the trap was the single most important factor in these playoffs. (other than maybe the Gill/Gorges/Halak combo) You remove Gomez you remove our ability to gain the zone. Period.

He was one of if not THE most important factor on the ice imo. There is more to hockey than scoring goals you know. And wtf is wrong with a second assist? It's worth just as much as a goal.

Oh yeah, he also had this gem in game 7. WIthout him, forget about facing Pittsburgh.

Not too many players in the league can make this pass.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQvIkxaTD54

Never said the guy was a bad player...............IMHO, just not worth $8 million.

Fact is he was not worth $8 mill per year to Lamarello and (ultimately) Sather.

Anyone who can't see that the Rangers trading of Gomez was a salary dump whereby the money they saved on the Gomez contract they used to pay Gaborik and stay within the salary cap is either a terrible mathamatician or competely delusional!

I'll make a real wild prediction (I know I'm going out on a limb here.........LOL) - I would be willing to bet that the Rangers would not trade Gaborik for Gomez straight up - now, I could be wrong about that..........but that's my guess!

Guess those broadcasters on HNIC must have been watching a different series than the HABS vs Flyers series when they suggested that Scott (and others) had not made the type of contributions that the Habs needed to get past the Flyers!



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05-29-2010, 05:34 PM
  #33
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A guy who has never played a single game in the NHL is getting way too much attention....

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05-29-2010, 05:38 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by King Kool Aid View Post
Never said the guy was a bad player...............IMHO, just not worth $8 million.

Fact is he was not worth $8 mill per year to Lamarello and (ultimately) Sather.

Anyone who can't see that the Rangers trading of Gomez was a salary dump whereby the money they saved on the Gomez contract they used to pay Gaborik and stay within the salary cap is either a terrible mathamatician or competely delusional!

I'll make a real wild prediction (I know I'm going out on a limb here.........LOL) - I would be willing to bet that the Rangers would not trade Gaborik for Gomez straight up - now, I could be wrong about that..........but that's my guess!

Guess those broadcasters on HNIC must have been watching a different series than the HABS vs Flyers series when they suggested that Scott (and others) had not made the type of contributions that the Habs needed to get past the Flyers!

Usually when a team gets eliminated in a series, some of its top players weren't able to put it together. Cammalleri only had 1 goal vs the Flyers. Does that mean he doesn't come through in the clutch? Crosby only scored one goal in 7 games against us. It doesn't mean they're bad players. And do you really think that the word of HNIC Habs haters like Healy, Galley, and Stock is professed gospel?

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05-29-2010, 05:42 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Schooner Guy View Post
Usually when a team gets eliminated in a series, some of its top players weren't able to put it together. Cammalleri only had 1 goal vs the Flyers. Does that mean he doesn't come through in the clutch? Crosby only scored one goal in 7 games against us. It doesn't mean they're bad players. And do you really think that the word of HNIC Habs haters like Healy, Galley, and Stock is professed gospel?
Yup, i guess Crosby and Malkin are just as bad considering they got only 1 even-stength point between them in 7 games against us...overpaid?

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05-29-2010, 05:48 PM
  #36
Melvin Udall
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Originally Posted by Schooner Guy View Post
Usually when a team gets eliminated in a series, some of its top players weren't able to put it together. Cammalleri only had 1 goal vs the Flyers. Does that mean he doesn't come through in the clutch? Crosby only scored one goal in 7 games against us. It doesn't mean they're bad players. And do you really think that the word of HNIC Habs haters like Healy, Galley, and Stock is professed gospel?

Dude, no offense.

I do not disagree with everything you have said - nor do I agree with all of your opinions - which is fine (obviously you do not agree with all of my opinions - fine again).

However, going back to my origional post in this thread - unless anyone can offer specific info to the contrary I am confident in believeing that the Gomez trade was a salary dump by the Rangers.......if I am wrong I stand corrected - it's just that to me - everything points to this!

Is Gomez a bad player - IMHO, no................just not worth $8 million, but then again all he has to do is remain valuable enough to Pierre Gauthier to keep on pulling in top money.



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Old
05-29-2010, 05:56 PM
  #37
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The transition period of the Gomez like contracts will end one day, but it could be worst, It could be Lecavalier for 10! Gomez is a good hockey player just worth 5 not 8, we all agree.

No matter we got further than we have in 17 years, have young (goal tending pick one & great young D coming up) Turns out we actually need Gomez, we got heart. What's the rules on restructuring a contract in the NHL?

BTW....Pyatt is more useful to us than McDonaugh will ever be. We just need to tweak some toughness now. The system when healthy works! They proved it!

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05-29-2010, 06:15 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by 23Hab View Post
The transition period of the Gomez like contracts will end one day, but it could be worst, It could be Lecavalier for 10! Gomez is a good hockey player just worth 5 not 8, we all agree.

No matter we got further than we have in 17 years, have young (goal tending pick one & great young D coming up) Turns out we actually need Gomez, we got heart. What's the rules on restructuring a contract in the NHL?

BTW....Pyatt is more useful to us than McDonaugh will ever be. We just need to tweak some toughness now. The system when healthy works! They proved it!
Wow dude............arguably Pyatt has some value to the HABS (as does Gomez, but Gomez has more value).

To say that Pyatt is more useful to us than McDonaugh will ever be I can only assume you mean fromm the view that McDonaugh is no longer Habs property and accordingly could never help the Habs!

I assume that in terms of hockey skill, McDonaugh is expected to be a better player than Pyatt, although he is unproven at the pro level!



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05-29-2010, 06:18 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by King Kool Aid View Post
Never said the guy was a bad player...............IMHO, just not worth $8 million.

Fact is he was not worth $8 mill per year to Lamarello and (ultimately) Sather.

Anyone who can't see that the Rangers trading of Gomez was a salary dump whereby the money they saved on the Gomez contract they used to pay Gaborik and stay within the salary cap is either a terrible mathamatician or competely delusional!

I'll make a real wild prediction (I know I'm going out on a limb here.........LOL) - I would be willing to bet that the Rangers would not trade Gaborik for Gomez straight up - now, I could be wrong about that..........but that's my guess!

Guess those broadcasters on HNIC must have been watching a different series than the HABS vs Flyers series when they suggested that Scott (and others) had not made the type of contributions that the Habs needed to get past the Flyers!

oh really? you bring something new to the debate!

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05-29-2010, 06:36 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by King Kool Aid View Post
Yeah, that is interesting......So why didn't the Habs $8 million man get some "assists" in the 3 games vs Flyers when they were shut out and needed goals?


After Habs elimination more than 1 poster on this board pointed out that the NHL credits up to 2 assists on each goal and by at least some observations, many of Gomez' "assists" appeared to be "secondary" in nature.


Interesting that throughout 3 rounds of the playoffs - Halak, Cammy, Gionta, Gill, Georges, and even Hammer and Spacek etc repeatedly received either a 3 star selection - or at least honourable mention -Gomez' name rarely came up for those mentions - except on HNIC pregame vs Philly when they pointed out that Gomez, Pleks and AK were (in too many games) playoff scoring no-shows!

Guess the broadcasters on HNIC saw something about Gomez' playoff performance that you apparently (conveniently ?) didn't see!

To his credit Gomez did get 1 goal in Habs 1st playoff game 2010 and 1 goal in their last playoff game - both loses..........HOW ABOUT THAT!


i love kool aid
Do you watch hockey or just look at the stat sheet afterward? Worst is you are prejudice against certain stats!

You ignore the fact that Gomez was a leader in the locker room, if you don't believe that he is a large reason that a team with what 70% new faces were able to gel and compete, and to knock off not only #1 in the East, but the defending Stanley Cup champs, well I guess you are truely a poor judge of character.

To you hating on his contract. YES IT SUCKS, but get over it. You think Gaborik deserves his money, but his team didn't make the playoff. You attest so much to Gomez, yet nothing to Gaborik.

Anyways, be prejudice for no reason, keep talking about your second assist. In the end I got to enjoy the first ECF since 1993, and I DO BELIEVE Gomez was a big part of that.

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05-29-2010, 06:48 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by CrAzYNiNe View Post
Do you watch hockey or just look at the stat sheet afterward? Worst is you are prejudice against certain stats!

You ignore the fact that Gomez was a leader in the locker room, if you don't believe that he is a large reason that a team with what 70% new faces were able to gel and compete, and to knock off not only #1 in the East, but the defending Stanley Cup champs, well I guess you are truely a poor judge of character.

To you hating on his contract. YES IT SUCKS, but get over it. You think Gaborik deserves his money, but his team didn't make the playoff. You attest so much to Gomez, yet nothing to Gaborik.

Anyways, be prejudice for no reason, keep talking about your second assist. In the end I got to enjoy the first ECF since 1993, and I DO BELIEVE Gomez was a big part of that.

I assume you call yourself "CrAzY" for a reason!


I call myself King Kool Aid because I'm a Kool Aid drinker from way back.

No bigger Kool Aid drinker than me!



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05-29-2010, 06:54 PM
  #42
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There's an interesting statistic in hockey called the "assist". Funny and convenient that you don't mention this statistic, because without assists, there wouldn't be many goals. Gomez led our team in assists in the playoffs by a significant amount.
shhhhh. We don't want logic or reason in here, we just need to hate on his contract.

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05-30-2010, 09:34 AM
  #43
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How did this morph into a Gomez debate?

Timmins was certainly disappointed to see McDonagh traded, but I'd say the odds that Mac refuses to sign with NY and ends up back in Mtl are about a million to one.

If the panelist at L'attaque 5 had ever suggested that the sky was falling, how many of you would have fetched your umbrellas? The only time Pednault gets an inside scoop is when he orders ice cream in a parlor instead of on the street....he sees Klubertanz being signed while Mac hasn't (which doesn't mean he won't in the next month or so) and concludes he dislikes NY. Glenn Beck has nothing on Yvon.

As for Gomez not being worth $8M - boy that's a complaint we've never heard - really takes a unique thinker to repeatedly come to that conclusion.

Yet as has been pointed out - Gomez is the club's first-line center, a first-line center who not only pivots the top power play unit, but also the top penalty killing unit. In his first year with the Habs, this first-line center took his new team to the ECF's.

Those are the stats that count - He SHOULD be the team's highest paid forward even if we'd all like to see him shoot way more. His speed was a major factor in the first two series wins at both ends of the ice, and especially in the neutral zone. He took the team out of trouble on countless occasions.

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05-30-2010, 09:40 AM
  #44
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I love when people say "he's not worth 8 million" because his cap hit is actually close to 7 million.

Lecavalier isn't worth 10 million

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05-30-2010, 11:24 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Kool Aid View Post
Never said the guy was a bad player...............IMHO, just not worth $8 million.

Fact is he was not worth $8 mill per year to Lamarello and (ultimately) Sather.

Anyone who can't see that the Rangers trading of Gomez was a salary dump whereby the money they saved on the Gomez contract they used to pay Gaborik and stay within the salary cap is either a terrible mathamatician or competely delusional!

I'll make a real wild prediction (I know I'm going out on a limb here.........LOL) - I would be willing to bet that the Rangers would not trade Gaborik for Gomez straight up - now, I could be wrong about that..........but that's my guess!

Guess those broadcasters on HNIC must have been watching a different series than the HABS vs Flyers series when they suggested that Scott (and others) had not made the type of contributions that the Habs needed to get past the Flyers!

And the Habs wouldn't trade Gomez for Gaborik straight up, either. What's your point?

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05-30-2010, 01:38 PM
  #46
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And the Habs wouldn't trade Gomez for Gaborik straight up, either. What's your point?
My point (and had you read my previous posts in this thread I believe my point is self explanatory) is that IMHO, the Rangers trading of Gomez was a salary dump, in order for the Rangers to be able to afford the Gaborik contract while remaining within the salary cap!

In other words, although the Rangers signed Gomez to that contract, they apparently felt they would prefer paying similar money to Gaborik than to keep Gomez and his contract.

Comparing Gaborik's 2009-2010 stats to those of Gomez, the Ranger's decision would IMHO, be difficult to argue with!




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05-30-2010, 01:45 PM
  #47
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And the Habs wouldn't trade Gomez for Gaborik straight up, either. What's your point?
Yes they would.

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05-30-2010, 01:48 PM
  #48
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Yes they would.

Looks like I'm not the only one on this board that agrees with this premise!



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05-30-2010, 02:11 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by King Kool Aid View Post
My point (and had you read my previous posts in this thread I believe my point is self explanatory) is that IMHO, the Rangers trading of Gomez was a salary dump, in order for the Rangers to be able to afford the Gaborik contract while remaining within the salary cap!

In other words, although the Rangers signed Gomez to that contract, they apparently felt they would prefer paying similar money to Gaborik than to keep Gomez and his contract.

Comparing Gaborik's 2009-2010 stats to those of Gomez, the Ranger's decision would IMHO, be difficult to argue with!


I've been reading this and i do believe you might have 2 distinct points you're trying to make here. That the Gomez trade was a salary dump by the Rangers, i think it's safe to assume we all agree on this part as it's been expressed here a couple of times. But you're ALSO saying that Gomez ISN'T worth 8M$, proven by the assumption that the Rangers would rather give that money to Gabs. I think this is a completely different than the trade per se. It 's why the "in other words" is a bit misleading.

If we shed the first part, is he worth the money? Nah...probably 5 like somebody said. But i'm not sure Gab would have brought the heart and character and experience Gomez brings us. So much more intangibles (Gionta/Leadership/etc.) which compensate IMHO. I'm happy he's here. Maybe the best we've had in a while, although perhaps not the most productive ever. Just a victim of the market when he signed, the context back then.

Just my 2 cents. Sorry to interrupt

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05-30-2010, 02:39 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by King Kool Aid View Post
My point (and had you read my previous posts in this thread I believe my point is self explanatory) is that IMHO, the Rangers trading of Gomez was a salary dump, in order for the Rangers to be able to afford the Gaborik contract while remaining within the salary cap!

In other words, although the Rangers signed Gomez to that contract, they apparently felt they would prefer paying similar money to Gaborik than to keep Gomez and his contract.

Comparing Gaborik's 2009-2010 stats to those of Gomez, the Ranger's decision would IMHO, be difficult to argue with!


You'll sound silly when Gaborik is going to miss like 50 games next year like he does every year. He's absurdly injury prone, the Rangers took a great risk signing him. You also don't take into account that the Rangers might have failed to sign him, in which case they would have been screwed.

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