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Boucher will meet the Jackets

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Old
05-30-2010, 02:05 PM
  #26
RE-HABS
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As good as a coach Boucher is too many people are putting too much into him not being with Montreal.

Its like there aren't any other good young coaches out there???

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05-30-2010, 02:09 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by RE-HABS View Post
As good as a coach Boucher is too many people are putting too much into him not being with Montreal.

Its like there aren't any other good young coaches out there???
There are but right now he's pretty much the perfect fit for the Bulldogs and our development system.

It won't be the end of the world if we lose him but people woukd rather keep him in the system and that's totally understandable.

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05-30-2010, 02:10 PM
  #28
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As good as a coach Boucher is too many people are putting too much into him not being with Montreal.

Its like there aren't any other good young coaches out there???
Well based on what people don't want to believe is important, if they are looking towards a Q guy to take the job, you do reduce the number of good young coaches available. I'd see Raymond having shot, unless Boucher, if he goes, strips Hamilton from Raymond and Lacroix then it's all about a new coaching staff.

If not, well Vincent and Tourigny might fit the profile. I'd love to have Benoit Groulx but he won't go from an AHL team to another one.

Actually, I am a Pro-Q. Pretty clear by now. But I really hope, despite what the media will say, that we will STRONGLY consider Chuck Weber.

Aside from that, unfortunately, as good as Boucher is based on his interviews, based on how the players see him and on his record, possible that there are not a lot of good young coaches out there....probably not as good as him and we do agree that development is just as important than the actual drafting....

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05-30-2010, 02:10 PM
  #29
Des Louise
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
OMG OMG OMG... Lets act like he already has signed with them WOOT! :childish:


I once turned down a very good job somewhere I didn't want to go, even though I would've made more money and got a way better status, but yeah, Boucher is all about 1 + 1 = 2, so that means he will definetly sign with them (add smiley).
Wasn't your whole point that Boucher would stay because you had read articles and listened to interviews and knew the guy like you were his father ?

Why would someone go to an interview if there was no willingness to take the job ?

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05-30-2010, 02:13 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
[/B]

does it mean he won't?
Oh Wake TF up. People here are acting AS IF HE already is. It's quite telling that you reply to my post instead of theirs. Because I am telling people to not jump to conclusions means I don't understand that he might sign there? Is that the best you can come up with? Get a friggin hold of yourself.


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So you think it's impossible that he'll accept a coaching position elsewhere?

Or are you just trying to belittle everyone for being worried about losing him to another team?

WTF are you getting at bro?????????
Dude, he was the one who brought it up.

For the first post, most people here are acting like children. Again, you do the same, instead of realizing this, you jump to the conclusion I think its impossible he'd sign there. So it's awright for people to act like he already has signed there, and for you to put words into my mouth, but if I point out the fallacy of jumping to conclusions, well then I'm all bad.

Take a huge breather, a few months ago I said I would be very surprised to see Boucher sign elsewhere as everything Boucher said pointed to him staying a few years in the AHL. Boucher is professional, and for sure will hear the Jackets out, doesn't mean he'll sign like everyone here is expecting.

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05-30-2010, 02:15 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
Wasn't your whole point that Boucher would stay because you had read articles and listened to interviews and knew the guy like you were his father ?

Why would someone go to an interview if there was no willingness to take the job ?
To keep all your options open. He's interested for sure, but with the talent he has and the visibility he's gotten from being in the Habs organization he also knows he has choices. It's not like he's never going to get another offer. This is a very good experience for him whether he plans to take the job or not. If you've read any articles you must know already that he's always, always looking for ways to learn new things.

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05-30-2010, 02:18 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
Wasn't your whole point that Boucher would stay because you had read articles and listened to interviews and knew the guy like you were his father ?

Why would someone go to an interview if there was no willingness to take the job ?
Your questions make too much sense

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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Oh Wake TF up. People here are acting AS IF HE already is. It's quite telling that you reply to my post instead of theirs. Because I am telling people to not jump to conclusions means I don't understand that he might sign there? Is that the best you can come up with? Get a friggin hold of yourself.




Dude, he was the one who brought it up.

For the first post, most people here are acting like children. Again, you do the same, instead of realizing this, you jump to the conclusion I think its impossible he'd sign there. So it's awright for people to act like he already has signed there, and for you to put words into my mouth, but if I point out the fallacy of jumping to conclusions, well then I'm all bad.

Take a huge breather, a few months ago I said I would be very surprised to see Boucher sign elsewhere as everything Boucher said pointed to him staying a few years in the AHL. Boucher is professional, and for sure will hear the Jackets out, doesn't mean he'll sign like everyone here is expecting.
You're a very confusing poster to follow.

People are concerned, nobody is saying it's a done deal... but why shouldn't they be concerned? Did anyone say "OMG he's gone"? No.

You're the one putting words into peoples mouth.

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05-30-2010, 02:30 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
Wasn't your whole point that Boucher would stay because you had read articles and listened to interviews and knew the guy like you were his father ?
Oh, grow-up kiddo. Haven't you had enough sourgrapes from arguments you had with me? Has he signed yet? Nope. Let's wait until he does.

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Why would someone go to an interview if there was no willingness to take the job ?
Wanting to see what's out there? Professional courtesy from both the Habs and Boucher?

I never said there was no willingness. Your nuancing my own words.

The process is : Jackets contact Habs, Habs out of professional courtesy, like most teams do, allow talks, then Habs probably talked to Boucher first (of all odds), Boucher then decides if he wants the interview or not. When a professional organization of an elite team offers you an interview, it would be unprofessional to not hear them out. Doesn't mean he'll sign, doesn't mean he won't sign.

Then it comes down to the same things as before. Boucher believing he needs to take his time in the AHL. If he now believes he is ready, he might go for it, I never doubted that. But it's still all tied to whether he believes or not he is ready. Yet everybody here except me are acting as if they KNOW that Boucher has already made up his mind about whether he is ready or not, whether his own advice shouldn't be followed. And yet, the usual suspects come out and react against me, instead of all the premature conclusions.... just shows what you're all made of.

Also, the Habs, having talked to Boucher first, might not be all too worried, especially since he had NHL interviews last season with other teams (for NHL jobs), and yeah, he chose AHL with Montreal.

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Old
05-30-2010, 03:00 PM
  #34
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Relax. He didn't get job yet, and if he does, good for him. It's probably his dream to be an NHL coach, and we're here hoping he gets rejected. Let it be, if he gets taken, good for him.

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05-30-2010, 03:20 PM
  #35
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You do realize the entire point of drafting, hiring coaches, developing prospects, making trades, and signing free agents is to.... make deep playoff runs, right?
Typical mentality these days it seems; "our goal is to make the playoffs". Our goal should be to win the cup. I still think we're far from that. We had a great run, but we were outplayed for the majority of the games. Certain needs need to be addressed this off season and I'm just afraid that Gauthier makes no/little changes.

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05-30-2010, 03:21 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Relax. He didn't get job yet, and if he does, good for him. It's probably his dream to be an NHL coach, and we're here hoping he gets rejected. Let it be, if he gets taken, good for him.
He's still got a few things to learn about pro hockey so he might as well do ot with Columbus. Don't see it as long term so he will be around in a couple of years.

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05-30-2010, 03:42 PM
  #37
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Right, he already has signed with the Jackets.

You do realize that if the Habs allowed other teams to talk to Boucher, this means they had their "little talk" with Boucher first, I mean, it's part of the process, and everything I said still stands. You should wait and see if he'll sign with them before gloathing, cause this might make you look even worst.

What did I base what I said on? Boucher himself saying he needed a lot of seasoning in the AHL, and already had chosen the Habs, had already got many offers from NHL teams. I never said he wouldn't get any offers.

So now I know what the 18 in your handle stands for. Goes well with those premature conclusions of yours.
Everything you said was wrong. You said the Habs brass wouldn't even allow him to talk, which was completely naive to think.

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05-30-2010, 03:43 PM
  #38
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if both muller and boucher walk it will be ****ing pathetic. everyone here was clambering and begging for fresh ideas and coaches. we have two inside the organization, so now gauthier, president hairspray and martin allow these two to walk without even compensation? what the **** is wrong with this people? you don't ensure long term continuity by investing in guys to let them walk. it's no different than losing players via ufa for nothing after developing them. personally i don't really like martin and his coaching warts were covered up by halak's incredible play...and now to lose muller? cmon gauthier don't lose both...lose one and promote the other in the case of boucher.
it's ****ed up to lose your two brightest coaching minds in a year . BAD management to do it. you be proactive and do what it takes to keep them- or slap compensation on it to make other organizations think twice.
****ing imagine 5 more years of the two Ottawa retreads and ******** smarmy boivin
dammit.

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05-30-2010, 03:47 PM
  #39
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He's still got a few things to learn about pro hockey so he might as well do ot with Columbus. Don't see it as long term so he will be around in a couple of years.
there's no logic to this. he's developing with the guys he's coaching on the farm. that's as good a lesson as going somewhere else and 'hoping' he returns. keeping him here and give him guarantees. martin is close to 60 and like most of the old school coaches - see hitchcock, lemaire, etc..will or should retire or out of work (one way or another). if boucher walks, i'd groom muller to replace martin. ****ing tired of losing assets. for an organization that prides itself on bilingualism and desperate for a french speaking coach to let a young up and comer leave is pathetic

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05-30-2010, 04:09 PM
  #40
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04-07-2010, 05:36 PM
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Guy Boucher named AHL coach of the year
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Posted By Ozymandias
He's under contract, I highly doubt Habs brass...

He's under contract, I highly doubt Habs brass would let him walk away. Give your head a shake.

Also, read this

Along with several other ridiculous posts about how the habs would stop him from talks.

I know you'll comeback with your personal attacks as per normal. Save your BS for another time. You have been wrong on this subject at every turn and you can't take your posts back they are there for everyone to see.

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05-30-2010, 04:12 PM
  #41
Lucius
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I don't think Cinderella run's count, we clearly are middle of the pack team again, with a bad draft pick, an outdated system and still are without this star player upfront. Technically, we've been like this for the past 20 years
That outdated system out foxed two Cup favorites.

That middle of the pack team beat Crosby and Ovechkin.

Late draft picks, while obviously not ideal, are not exactly a kiss of death. We'll get a very good player.

To me, that run whether lucky or not, did a world of good. We saw what players can and cannot do in the playoffs. We may have largely settled the goalie debate. We know Cammy and Gionta are solid playoff performers. We gave Subban the chance to shine at the highest level. We know what we really have in Gill and Gorges. Had the season ended in game 4 against Washington, people on this forum (and god forbid the organization) would probably believe: Cammelleri is still an unproven playoff commodity, Hal Gill is too slow for the modern game, Carey Price is still the number one goalie, Brian Gionta had a mediocre first season and is overpaid, PK Subban may not be ready next year, Dominic Moore wasn't worth a draft pick... etc.

All the guys on this club gained valuable experience and we learned a lot about this roster, which will shape it moving forward with much more information than it otherwise would have been available.

I know the fun narrative on these boards is that Martin is an idiot and Boucher should replace him, but fact is, for all the celebration... Both men took their teams to the Conference Finals. Boucher did it with what is generally considered a "good team" and Martin with what you call a middle of the pack team. Who then really is the better coach? The guy who gets a good team where you expect or the guy who gets a middle of the pack team well beyond where you expect?

I know this is Hockey's "Future," but for once, try and consider the fact that GMs and Coaches are there to win now... not in five years. This Boucher/Martin thing is just the latest symptom in the eternal whine on this board that would see us rebuilding forever because anyone with more than 5 NHL games experience is clearly not as good as some kid we just drafted.


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05-30-2010, 04:22 PM
  #42
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Who then really is the better coach? The guy who gets a good team where you expect or the guy who gets a middle of the pack team well beyond where you expect?
It's the guy who by his strategies, by the way he handles a team is actually able to get the best of each and every one of his players.

It's a pretty tough exercise to evaluate since you'd have to be in the room to actually know how they operate.

But one thing is sure, I believe A LOT in communication. Something which I believe Boucher has a whole lot. Something which we know Martin doesn't have a lot à la Carbonneau. The time that Darche didn't play 1 single second, Martin had that following conversation with Darche 2 DAYS LATER..."I know Mathieu it was tough last time but you'll play on a regular line today".

As far as your analysis, well both did reach the same point. Yet, Boucher had to deal, like most AHL coaches, with a different lineup almost every day and based on how we were injured this year, he had to battle all year long with the Habs injuries and the Dogs injures. I'd say that his regular season was a whole lot more impressive based on where he finished and with the lineup he had while in the same time, Martin finished 8th losing the last game vs Toronto but in a much much more tougher league where you can't lose too many guys or you'll pay for it. As far as the playoffs are concerned, while the system played a role for Martin, you do have to wonder if miraculous Halak isn't in net and only good old Jaro is, we do lose in 5 against the Caps system or no system. How will be his playoffs then?

I'm not ready to throw Martin under the bus. He doesn't deserve it. And in the end, you're comparing 2 different leagues, 2 different circumstances, and we're not inside the dressing room. But if I HAD to choose, I'd take Boucher's year and Boucher's personnality. Doesn't diminuish what Martin did but it does point out what a great year Boucher had....

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05-30-2010, 04:31 PM
  #43
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Well guys don't look any further.....(Coming from Stéphane Leroux, great journalist from the Q)

Seems that Benoit Groulx might come back to the Gatineau Olympiques. Ted Nolan is in charge of Rochester and it seems that it's not going well between him and Groulx. Seems that Groulx is not having fun and is really looking forward to come back near his family and there is an opening in Gatineau. Now, he's wondering what effect it will have on the rest of his career to take a step back.

Now, remember that it's Jacques Martin who hired Groulx in Rochester......so if/when Boucher leaves.....and if Groulx is indeed back in Juniors, he'll listen to what the Habs would like to offer him.

Seems that Groulx was the one who was going to replace Lever if Lever would not have won the Calder Cup.

Groulx still has 1 year to his Rochester contract....but it might entertain the idea to ask to be released....He's still wondering what he'll be doing.

Just wanted to say that if he's let loose and if we have an opening......don't be surprise to see him in the Habs organization.

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05-30-2010, 04:34 PM
  #44
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He's still got a few things to learn about pro hockey so he might as well do ot with Columbus. Don't see it as long term so he will be around in a couple of years.
Not to be a party crasher, but lets say he fails in CLB. Why would we want him? In a market that isn't expected to win he gets fired and fails with young guys(which apparently ppl say is his strong asset), then we'll want him? Why? besides, even if he did get fired, who's to say MTL is his first choice?

If he does well, then, he's gone, end of story.

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05-30-2010, 04:42 PM
  #45
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It's the guy who by his strategies, by the way he handles a team is actually able to get the best of each and every one of his players.

It's a pretty tough exercise to evaluate since you'd have to be in the room to actually know how they operate.

But one thing is sure, I believe A LOT in communication. Something which I believe Boucher has a whole lot. Something which we know Martin doesn't have a lot à la Carbonneau. The time that Darche didn't play 1 single second, Martin had that following conversation with Darche 2 DAYS LATER..."I know Mathieu it was tough last time but you'll play on a regular line today".

As far as your analysis, well both did reach the same point. Yet, Boucher had to deal, like most AHL coaches, with a different lineup almost every day and based on how we were injured this year, he had to battle all year long with the Habs injuries and the Dogs injures. I'd say that his regular season was a whole lot more impressive based on where he finished and with the lineup he had while in the same time, Martin finished 8th losing the last game vs Toronto but in a much much more tougher league where you can't lose too many guys or you'll pay for it. As far as the playoffs are concerned, while the system played a role for Martin, you do have to wonder if miraculous Halak isn't in net and only good old Jaro is, we do lose in 5 against the Caps system or no system. How will be his playoffs then?

I'm not ready to throw Martin under the bus. He doesn't deserve it. And in the end, you're comparing 2 different leagues, 2 different circumstances, and we're not inside the dressing room. But if I HAD to choose, I'd take Boucher's year and Boucher's personnality. Doesn't diminuish what Martin did but it does point out what a great year Boucher had....
You mentioned Boucher having to deal with a different line-up every night. The only wrench in his lineup was Subban going to Montreal, which was the equivalent of Markov getting hurt. On those terms they were the same.

That said, I grant you the comparison is a mid muddled.

And I also agree that Boucher is probably going to be a very good NHL coach.

However, he is not an NHL coach and he is not the coach of Montreal. If everything translated exactly, Corey Locke would be accepting his Hart Trophy right now.

Jacques Martin is the coach of Montreal and did an admirable job. The goalie is as much a part of the team as the 4th line centre. Ultimately, Martin put Halak in. Martin went back to Halak when he could easily have stuck with Price too. Martin hired the goalie coach. And finally, we all have no idea WHAT happened in that room, but from all accounts this team came together and played as a team and won two rounds as a result.

It's easy to blame the coach when things go wrong and credit the players when things go right, but it's absurd. Both played a huge role.

Martin is the coach, has exceeded expectations as the coach and that's all that matters.

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05-30-2010, 04:59 PM
  #46
Des Louise
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Oh, grow-up kiddo. Haven't you had enough sourgrapes from arguments you had with me? Has he signed yet? Nope. Let's wait until he does.
I don't know what you're talking about.

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Wanting to see what's out there? Professional courtesy from both the Habs and Boucher?

I never said there was no willingness. Your nuancing my own words.
Am not.

I can dig up the thread where you go crazy about how Boucher would NEVER sign with another team. And you knew that because you had read ALL articles and listened to EVERY interviews and you were the foremost expert on all things Boucher. You knew him like he was your own kid.

Quote:
The process is : Jackets contact Habs, Habs out of professional courtesy, like most teams do, allow talks, then Habs probably talked to Boucher first (of all odds), Boucher then decides if he wants the interview or not.
We're not at that point anymore. Boucher has had the interview, or will have it if we are to believe this link that was provided.

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When a professional organization of an elite team offers you an interview, it would be unprofessional to not hear them out. Doesn't mean he'll sign, doesn't mean he won't sign
No, if you don't have any interest in a job you don't go to an interview.

What would be unprofessional is to go to an interview with zero intent on accepting the job. What if the jackets decide Boucher is the man and offer him the job. Declining at that point after having gone through the interview process would be unprofessional.

Quote:
Then it comes down to the same things as before. Boucher believing he needs to take his time in the AHL. If he now believes he is ready, he might go for it, I never doubted that. But it's still all tied to whether he believes or not he is ready. Yet everybody here except me are acting as if they KNOW that Boucher has already made up his mind about whether he is ready or not, whether his own advice shouldn't be followed. And yet, the usual suspects come out and react against me, instead of all the premature conclusions.... just shows what you're all made of.
No. Everyone is assuming there's a chance he might feel he's ready and take the job.

YOU were assuming that he wasn't ready wayyyy back when that first thread was created.

Honestly, I don't really care. But you were so high and mighty over it last time that it would be absolutely hilarious if he did sign with another team.

What's even funnier is your unwillingness to admit you went way overboard the last time this was discussed.

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05-30-2010, 05:09 PM
  #47
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You mentioned Boucher having to deal with a different line-up every night. The only wrench in his lineup was Subban going to Montreal, which was the equivalent of Markov getting hurt. On those terms they were the same.

That said, I grant you the comparison is a mid muddled.

And I also agree that Boucher is probably going to be a very good NHL coach.

However, he is not an NHL coach and he is not the coach of Montreal. If everything translated exactly, Corey Locke would be accepting his Hart Trophy right now.

Jacques Martin is the coach of Montreal and did an admirable job. The goalie is as much a part of the team as the 4th line centre. Ultimately, Martin put Halak in. Martin went back to Halak when he could easily have stuck with Price too. Martin hired the goalie coach. And finally, we all have no idea WHAT happened in that room, but from all accounts this team came together and played as a team and won two rounds as a result.

It's easy to blame the coach when things go wrong and credit the players when things go right, but it's absurd. Both played a huge role.

Martin is the coach, has exceeded expectations as the coach and that's all that matters.
Over the course of the year, Boucher played 39 players. And when your AHL players are called up, you don't have a whole lot to replace them with.

In the playoffs, Boucher could have used players like Pyatt, Maxwell and Subban. And Carle and MaxPac were injured most of the playoffs. Not the same to me as far as the playoffs goes. Regular season, well you can say it was the same.

And no, the goalie isn't as much part of the team than the 4th line centerman. I mean especially not in Montreal when the 4th line kept playing 3 or 4 minutes per game.

Yes, you are expecting your goalie to be great. Then he's just doing the job he's ask to do. What he wasn't just great. Was called by a lot of people as more miraculous then what Roy did in 86 and 93. Roy himself said how he was so impressed by his mental strength with all he had to endure. Roy....THE mental strength master.

Halak wasn't just part of the team. He was the team accompanied with some great contributors. But I'll tell you that just a fine performance would not have cut it and then Martin's system would have been totally destroyed.

Yes again, I'll say that Martin right now deserves the credit. But we all know that it changes....real fast. We'll see if he'll be able to sell that system all year long now.

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05-30-2010, 06:26 PM
  #48
vokiel
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Well guys don't look any further.....(Coming from Stéphane Leroux, great journalist from the Q)

Seems that Benoit Groulx might come back to the Gatineau Olympiques. Ted Nolan is in charge of Rochester and it seems that it's not going well between him and Groulx. Seems that Groulx is not having fun and is really looking forward to come back near his family and there is an opening in Gatineau. Now, he's wondering what effect it will have on the rest of his career to take a step back.

Now, remember that it's Jacques Martin who hired Groulx in Rochester......so if/when Boucher leaves.....and if Groulx is indeed back in Juniors, he'll listen to what the Habs would like to offer him.

Seems that Groulx was the one who was going to replace Lever if Lever would not have won the Calder Cup.

Groulx still has 1 year to his Rochester contract....but it might entertain the idea to ask to be released....He's still wondering what he'll be doing.

Just wanted to say that if he's let loose and if we have an opening......don't be surprise to see him in the Habs organization.
That's encouraging thank you

In any case I think Columbus is just making first contact with Boucher, opening new doors just in case. They'll probably go with Dineen or Arniel who simply have more experience under their belt. At some point this counts more than being great at communicating and developing players, specially at the NHL level.

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05-30-2010, 07:44 PM
  #49
Lucius
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Over the course of the year, Boucher played 39 players. And when your AHL players are called up, you don't have a whole lot to replace them with.

In the playoffs, Boucher could have used players like Pyatt, Maxwell and Subban. And Carle and MaxPac were injured most of the playoffs. Not the same to me as far as the playoffs goes. Regular season, well you can say it was the same.

And no, the goalie isn't as much part of the team than the 4th line centerman. I mean especially not in Montreal when the 4th line kept playing 3 or 4 minutes per game.

Yes, you are expecting your goalie to be great. Then he's just doing the job he's ask to do. What he wasn't just great. Was called by a lot of people as more miraculous then what Roy did in 86 and 93. Roy himself said how he was so impressed by his mental strength with all he had to endure. Roy....THE mental strength master.

Halak wasn't just part of the team. He was the team accompanied with some great contributors. But I'll tell you that just a fine performance would not have cut it and then Martin's system would have been totally destroyed.

Yes again, I'll say that Martin right now deserves the credit. But we all know that it changes....real fast. We'll see if he'll be able to sell that system all year long now.
A few things:

- Boucher's 39 players were a direct result of Montreal injuries. I don't see how you don't understand the direct relationship. Martin used 37 players, FYI. And I'd argue that relatively speaking, the caliber of Boucher's ECHL call-ups is the same as Martin's AHL call-ups. Either way, you're calling someone up who operates one league below your league.

- My point about the goalie and the 4th liner is not that they have the same value to the team, but that they are both part of the team. Why does Boucher get credit for the play of his players and Martin doesn't? Halak played well, sure, but some of that credit has to go to his coach and the environment he was in.

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05-30-2010, 07:54 PM
  #50
Hackett
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I might be overreacting but I think this deep playoff run will hurt the habs more than anything has in a while...

Reasons I think this:

1- Martin will be kept until the team REALLY sucks
2- Gauthier will probably make minimal changes thinking that this team already has what it takes to win
3- Boucher will get the coaching job in Columbus because we can't give him one on the bench (our coaching staff got us to the third round...)
I kind of have the opposite thinking.

I think the habs performance this year has set the bar so high for martin that he will have a very difficult time meeting expectations from now on. This could have an accelerated effect on his eventual release.

The other thing to consider is whether Martin was more of Gainey's guy or Gauthier's guy. If he was more of Gainey's guy, then the leash is already shorter. But I admit that this theory is a bit of a stretch since gauthier and martin go way back.

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