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Habs CANNOT take Halak to arbitration and avoid offer sheets

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Old
05-30-2010, 02:07 PM
  #1
BaseballCoach
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Habs CANNOT take Halak to arbitration and avoid offer sheets

One interesting thing has came out of my detailed reading of the arbitration rules. One of our moderators and several other posters have written that Halak could be taken directly to arbitration thus bypassing the ability to receive and accept an offer sheet. Apparently this is an option only available to a club when the player was making more than $1.5M in the last year of the existing contract. Halak does not qualify for this option on the part of the club this year. He would qualify next year, if he signs a 1-year contract worth more than $1.5M. However, this could be a reason he chooses not to sign a one-year contract and to seek offer sheets now.

Read more at Suite101: Filing for Salary Arbitration in the NHL: Who is Eligible, the Filing Process, and How it is Settled http://national-hockey-league-nhl.su...#ixzz0pRDlxuEB

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05-30-2010, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
He would qualify next year, if he signs a 1-year contract worth more than $1.5M.
When is he UFA? I thought it was after next season

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05-30-2010, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
When is he UFA? I thought it was after next season
Halak will be a UFA in 2012.

I maintain a sticky on this topic for EVERY contract owned by the Montreal Canadiens:

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=14927456&postcount=3

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05-30-2010, 02:42 PM
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I had posted that he was eligible for salary arbitration, that's because I read it on a TSN article.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/story/?i...=nhl-canadiens

A paragraph there states:
"Halak has more bargaining power because he is eligible for salary arbitration. Gauthier will need to determine whether he can fit both goalies and Plekanec under the salary cap and whether Martin can keep both goalies happy in terms of playing time."

That sucks though, if they can't file for arbitration to give them more time to work on a contract without the worry of outside interference.

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05-30-2010, 02:45 PM
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coolasprICE
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I don't get the logic behind the rules...

If you can take a player to arbitration, then why are they not allowed to receive offer sheets? Or vice versa.

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05-30-2010, 02:46 PM
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In any case, he can't get offersheets until July 1st.

And even if he does, I don't see a team offering him quite more than 3 mil. The FA goalie market might be thin this year, but the overall goalie market is too saturated in this league for a team to offer more than this, unless some GM goes crazy.

I don't think either the Habs or Halak have reached a tipping point yet. Halak still is two years (and two full seasons) away from free agency, and the Habs (like most teams) would probably like Halak to prove himself on a longer basis before spending like hell on him. So it comes down to the Habs promising Halak what he wants, to be #1, or go elsewhere if he can't, so staying here is not a big risk for either party. Halak knows that he'll get traded if he doesn't get first fiddle.

I'm betting on a 2 years 6 mil contract signed before July 1st.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
I don't get the logic behind the rules...

If you can take a player to arbitration, then why are they not allowed to receive offer sheets? Or vice versa.
Because then there would be no point to RFA status and the arbitration decision. If the team refuses the arbitration decision, the player becomes UFA, he then gets all the offers he wants... get it?

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05-30-2010, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NHL.com
SALARY ARBITRATION

Who will be eligible for Salary Arbitration?

As a general matter, players will be eligible for salary arbitration after four years in the League instead of three. For the first time, Clubs also will have the right to elect salary arbitration with respect to two categories of players. For players who are earning more than $1.5 million in their prior year, Clubs will have the right to elect salary arbitration in lieu of making a Qualifying Offer. Clubs also will have the right to elect salary arbitration with respect to other Group 2 players who chose not to take the Club to arbitration.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26366


Halak is a group 2 free agent (RFA). if you look at the CBA you can see all the habs have to do is give him a qualifying offer than they can take him to arbitration if he does not accept. The 1.5m thing is a clause for clubs that don't want to make a qualifying offer for the player, I guess cuz they feel the arbiter will reduce his pay (pretty rare cases for a RFA).

Quote:
Originally Posted by CBA 12.13.b.i
If a Group 2 Restricted Free Agent has not accepted his Club's
Qualifying Offer, nor filed a request for Player-elected salary
arbitration in accordance with Section 12.2 above, the Club may
elect to file for salary arbitration to determine that Player's
Paragraph 1 Salary for that League Year.
That article the first poster linked to is garbage, did the guy who wrote it even read NHL.com or the CBA? I hope they were not paid to write that lol.

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05-30-2010, 02:59 PM
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Oleg Petrov
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12.3 (b)

He would fall under 12.3 (b) of the CBA.

The Habs can take him to Salary Arbs as of 5pm July 5th ending 5pm on July 6th.

If Halak had made over 1.5 million they would have been able to take him by June 15th.

This makes Halak eligible for an offer sheet from Noon on July 1st until the Habs take him to arbitration on July 5th.

It should also be noted that a player can only be taken to salary arbitration once in his career.

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Old
05-30-2010, 03:00 PM
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Offer sheets from other teams are a rare occurrence. I don't expect Halak to get any. But if he does, I bet he'll be bolting if given the chance.

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05-30-2010, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg Petrov View Post
He would fall under 12.3 (b) of the CBA.

The Habs can take him to Salary Arbs as of 5pm July 5th ending 5pm on July 6th.

If Halak had made over 1.5 million they would have been able to take him by June 15th.

This makes Halak eligible for an offer sheet from Noon on July 1st until the Habs take him to arbitration on July 5th.

It should also be noted that a player can only be taken to salary arbitration once in his career.
I'm far from being an expert on the CBA, and I might be wrong on this too, but didn't the Habs take Michael Ryder to arbitration multiple times before he left? I seem to recall it happening at least twice...

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05-30-2010, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turboflex View Post
http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26366


Halak is a group 2 free agent (RFA). if you look at the CBA you can see all the habs have to do is give him a qualifying offer than they can take him to arbitration if he does not accept. The 1.5m thing is a clause for clubs that don't want to make a qualifying offer for the player, I guess cuz they feel the arbiter will reduce his pay (pretty rare cases for a RFA).
There is a timing problem. The team cannot take the player to arbitration until July 6th, however he can receive offer sheets as of July 1.

With the player who makes MORE THAN $1.5M, the team can elect arbitration in June.

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05-30-2010, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Five Year Plan View Post
I'm far from being an expert on the CBA, and I might be wrong on this too, but didn't the Habs take Michael Ryder to arbitration multiple times before he left? I seem to recall it happening at least twice...
I could be wrong but I think they can file for arbitration multiple times but only go once. I don't think the Habs and Ryder ever went to Arbitration, it was filed but they reached an agreement beforehand.

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05-30-2010, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post

Because then there would be no point to RFA status and the arbitration decision. If the team refuses the arbitration decision, the player becomes UFA, he then gets all the offers he wants... get it?
so:

RFA's that can not be taken to arbitration CAN receive offer sheets (but there'll be compensation if offer is not matched).....I suppose it's a way to protect players who are worth more from cheap GM's who are unwilling to pay them their value. Makes sense.

RFA's that can be taken to arbitration are not allowed offer sheets (but if the team does not take them to arbitration than he becomes UFA)....They're given arbitration so there is no longer a need to protect them via allowing other teams to make offers. If their GM's are cheap, they become UFA. Makes sense.

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05-30-2010, 03:09 PM
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The Leafs should offer him 5+ M$ so we can get the first overall pick in 2011... Wait, it belongs to Boston

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05-30-2010, 03:13 PM
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The real question is...will Halak receive an offer sheet?

IMO not likely, unless a team knows the other team absolutely cannot keep a player they will not offer one. The Habs can pretty easily keep him if the offer sheet is in the 3 to 4.5 million range (1st & 3rd pick)...

If the offer gets up to 4 million tho you gotta question the other team's sanity. Halak has played really well over stretches, but he still only has 120 NHL games under his belt. The Habs might consider letting him go for the picks if someone is sending offers over 3.5 million, depend on the length of term.

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05-30-2010, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
so:

RFA's that can not be taken to arbitration CAN receive offer sheets (but there'll be compensation if offer is not matched).....I suppose it's a way to protect players who are worth more from cheap GM's who are unwilling to pay them their value. Makes sense.

RFA's that can be taken to arbitration are not allowed offer sheets (but if the team does not take them to arbitration than he becomes UFA)....They're given arbitration so there is no longer a need to protect them via allowing other teams to make offers. If their GM's are cheap, they become UFA. Makes sense.
No.... as long as there is a qualifying offer, players remain RFAs. If they don't receive QOs, then they become UFAs. They remain RFAs whether or not the choice for arbitration is taken (by team or player, depending on the RFA status). The only time players become UFAs because of arbitration is when the team doesn't accept the arbitration decision (salary). For an example of this look up JP Dumont and the Sabres.

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Old
05-30-2010, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
so:

RFA's that can not be taken to arbitration CAN receive offer sheets (but there'll be compensation if offer is not matched).....I suppose it's a way to protect players who are worth more from cheap GM's who are unwilling to pay them their value. Makes sense.

RFA's that can be taken to arbitration are not allowed offer sheets (but if the team does not take them to arbitration than he becomes UFA)....They're given arbitration so there is no longer a need to protect them via allowing other teams to make offers. If their GM's are cheap, they become UFA. Makes sense.
Almost right!

Once an RFA with arbitration eligibility is taken to arbitration OR takes the club to arbitration, either one, then RFA offer sheets (with compensation to the club) can no longer be accepted by the player. However, as long as a qualifying offer was made, and no arbitration was elected, then the player does NOT become UFA if the club and him cannot come to an agreement. He simply can receive offer sheets, which are his protection.

If a team takes a player to arbitration, it MUST accept the arbitrator's award, which will be for one or two years, at the player's option, unless only one year remains until UFA status.

If the player takes the TEAM to arbitration, and the team elects for a one year ruling, the team is not obligated to accept the ruling but can walk away and allow the player to become UFA.

If the player with two or more RFA years left takes the TEAM to arbitration, and the team elects a TWO year ruling, then the team MUST accept the ruling for the first year, and can announce it will walk away from the second year and allow the player to go UFA after the first year elapses.

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Old
05-30-2010, 04:39 PM
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how often do offer sheets happen realistically

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Old
05-30-2010, 04:53 PM
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Oleg Petrov
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Originally Posted by ACCIDENT View Post
how often do offer sheets happen realistically
Not often. For a club to send an offer sheet, they must:

A) Have their own picks to give as compensation. (not as easy as it sounds)

B) Have cap space to fit the overpayment

C) IMO, should not have any high profile RFA's of their own. As the team that they offer sheet will likely get back at them. See Bernier & Backes summer of '08. (If I'm MTL & STL offers Halak or Price, I turn around and offer Perron).

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05-30-2010, 05:08 PM
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A question that nobody seems to be asking:

Would it really be that bad a situation if Halak did receive a big offer sheet?

Well, it's bad if Gauthier chooses to match, and keeps Price, and hence hamstrings this team financially.


But if Halak is given a big offer sheet, and we don't match, the following happens:

1. The goalie situation in Montreal is solved. Price becomes our No. 1 by default. The controversy is over. Whether you like Price or Halak more, I think most of us would agree that both are at the very least dependable No. 1 goalies in this league.

2. We get back compensation in the form of a few draft picks, including at least one first rounder. Given our current cap situation, getting back valuable assets that don't count against the cap is a big positive. These assets can be used to draft a decent prospect, or once Hammer's contract is off the books, they can be used as trade bait to improve the team.


Don't get me wrong; Halak is awesome, and did a great job for our team, and I think he has a bright future. But it's not like we don't have a good young No. 1 goalie option aside from Halak. We do, and his name is Carey Price.

Honestly, Halak and/or Price getting a big offer sheet might be a blessing in disguise. It'll force the organization to finally make a choice, and end the goalie controversy. And it'll help our cap situation unless we match.

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05-30-2010, 05:08 PM
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if he gets an offer sheet thats way too much money then i say let him go and potentially get 5 1st round picks...its not going to happen though....regardless of what happens even if they say otherwise i think they need to decide once and for all which of the two young goaltenders they will go with and trade the other

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05-30-2010, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Joker View Post
A question that nobody seems to be asking:

Would it really be that bad a situation if Halak did receive a big offer sheet?

Well, it's bad if Gauthier chooses to match, and keeps Price, and hence hamstrings this team financially.


But if Halak is given a big offer sheet, and we don't match, the following happens:

1. The goalie situation in Montreal is solved. Price becomes our No. 1 by default. The controversy is over. Whether you like Price or Halak more, I think most of us would agree that both are at the very least dependable No. 1 goalies in this league.

2. We get back compensation in the form of a few draft picks, including at least one first rounder. Given our current cap situation, getting back valuable assets that don't count against the cap is a big positive. These assets can be used to draft a decent prospect, or once Hammer's contract is off the books, they can be used as trade bait to improve the team.


Don't get me wrong; Halak is awesome, and did a great job for our team, and I think he has a bright future. But it's not like we don't have a good young No. 1 goalie option aside from Halak. We do, and his name is Carey Price.

Honestly, Halak and/or Price getting a big offer sheet might be a blessing in disguise. It'll force the organization to finally make a choice, and end the goalie controversy. And it'll help our cap situation unless we match.
The only possible snag in your plan, of course, being that the draft picks would be for next year's draft (not this year's, unfortunately), and good luck making anything out of the 2nd and/or 3rd rounder compensation picks then. Better hope that 1st rounder pans out (I don't think next year's 1st round is as weak as many are suggesting, btw), or you end up letting a really good NHL goaltender get away for nothing.

But really, the Habs can handle $6M being tied up next year in goaltending, so this kind of thing isn't worth worrying about until/unless it looks like that won't be enough money to get both signed for next year (which it should be).

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05-30-2010, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Darth Joker View Post
Honestly, Halak and/or Price getting a big offer sheet might be a blessing in disguise. It'll force the organization to finally make a choice, and end the goalie controversy. And it'll help our cap situation unless we match.
The team CAN get rid of the CURRENT goalie controversy by trading one of the goalies. It CANNOT, however, get rid of the tradition of goalie controversies. Suppose Price became number one and Biron number two, and by January 1, Price would be 10-18-2 and Biron 7-1-2 and the team in 11th place. The controversy would be back and in HIGH GEAR!

Among other questions being asked, why is Price starting and losing when le futur membre du Temple de la Renomée Martin Biron is sitting on the bench wasting his enormous talents? Have people forgotten already how Biron single-handedly robbed the Habs of the Stanley Cup in 2007-2008?

Or, why has the team started playing Biron more when it is clear from complex third-order statistical analysis that Price's poorer record is due SOLELY to the fact that he plays against teams that beat us, while Biron gets to play against teams that lose to us?

Besides, say others, what is the point of playing Biron when it is Carey Price that is the "goalie of the future"; didn't the club just sign him to a five-year deal and pay for his stop-smoking patch?

"Who cares?" ask many others? The Price contract is just one more example of bad 5-year contracts the organization has made, and he should be traded along with Brian Gionta for Ian Laperriere! We need more size and grit!! And local players!!!

Or, we need to trade Biron at once. His value is at an all-time high right now, what with some lunatics thinking he is HOF material. THAT is when you trade someone - when his value is HIGH, not low! Meanwhile, his very presence is causing Price to play nervously, afraid that his next 20 mistakes will cost him a start.


This is Montreal, my friend. If you don't think that having two goalies with each displaying their own strengths and weaknesses during a time when the team is playing at a level that might have them out of the playoffs or once again just fighting for their lives to make eighth place is going to ignite controversy, you are REALLY sticking your head in the sand.

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Old
05-30-2010, 06:58 PM
  #24
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how often do offer sheets happen realistically
Once, twice a year. Well, as of late. Vancouver placed an offer sheet on Backes. St. Louis matched and then put an offer sheet on Bernier. Vanek and the Oliers. Penner and the Oliers. There's one more that happened too recently.

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05-30-2010, 07:23 PM
  #25
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List of players who have been given offer sheets + result: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...d_offer_sheets

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